Next stone gap to fill

[False_Cast]

Right now I've got two Shapton Pro stones: 1k and 5k. I enjoy them both; and in combination with stropping, I've been pretty satisfied. Also have a DMT "fine" diamond plate that I don't love as much (doesn't "feel" as good as the Pros). I am searching for the next stone and I am seeking advice. I was considering another Shapton Pro because they're what I know and I do like them, though I haven't tried any others, really.

What's the most useful next step? Shapton Pro 320? 2k? Something else entirely?

*I'm mostly sharpening kitchen, hunting, and fishing knives in 1095, Victorinox ss, A2 tool steel, White #2, and Blue #2.

**I'm actively trying to avoid falling down the rabbit hole that is Japanese natural stones. Because I'm certain I'd enjoy them a lot.

 

[bahamaroot]

SP or not it looks like you need something lower grit(220-500) for duller knives, repairs and light thinning that needs done now and then.

 

[HRC_64]

Either or both of the 320 or 2k would make sense, depends on what you need to do.
The SP-320 some people say does better on carbon than stainless.

 

[masibu]

The shapton 320 is a different beast to the 1k and 5k. It's a lot muddier than one would assume it to be. I have one and its lifespan would be pretty limited (even if mine didnt just so happen to break today). I would say that a coarse stone would be the next logical step as already mentioned.

The king deluxe 300 is a lot of stone for little money and is very hard. A very economical choice thats well suited to repairing chips and changing bevel angles etc. Its splash and go just as your shaptons are and comparatively hard as well (which is unusual for most coarse stones).

 

[Drosophil]

The king deluxe 300 is a lot of stone for little money and is very hard. A very economical choice thats well suited to repairing chips and changing bevel angles etc. Its splash and go just as your shaptons are and comparatively hard as well (which is unusual for most coarse stones).

Also, I think it's safe to say that you should ignore the warning some stores put up about not using the King 300 on stainless. I sharpen a lot of my friends' crap stainless on it and it doesn't clog at all.

 

[masibu]

Also, I think it's safe to say that you should ignore the warning some stores put up about not using the King 300 on stainless. I sharpen a lot of my friends' crap stainless on it and it doesn't clog at all.

Wow is that really something some stores advise against? I've found it works great for cheap stainless and haven't had issues with clogging on anything yet (although I lack anything powder steel). Its possible it could if you were looking to dramatically thin out an unclad stainless blade but that's pretty slow going for most stones. In that regard it's probably about as useful as a beston 500.

For anything major like that id use something more coarse leading into the king so it then just becomes a matter of maintenance (shapton 120 is good for this although i would like to try out sandpaper next time). The shapton 220 is slightly faster cutting than the king but it has like 25% of the thickness of the king and wears out really quickly.

The coarse shaptons are the only stones that I've worn out prematurely (like within a year or so) although I was regrinding a lot at the time. If I knew I needed to go coarser than the king id probably just look at either sandpaper or power tools as by that point its really just hogging off as much fat in as small a timeframe as possible

 

[Mucho Bocho]

I’ve all these stones and I settled on
300 King Delux
500 Shapton Glass Xthick
1-6K JKI Diamond Stones
Ohira Renge
Ohira Suita
Ozuku Suita assagi

Kasfly sand paper holder from K&S

Works for me

 

[masibu]

I’ve all these stones and I settled on
300 King Delux
500 Shapton Glass Xthick
1-6K JKI Diamond Stones
Ohira Renge
Ohira Suita
Ozuku Suita assagi

Kasfly sand paper holder from K&S

Works for me

How have you found that sandpaper holder? Ive thought about grabbing one myself and trying out super coarse sandpaper for thinning

 

[Mucho Bocho]

The sandpaper holder is a sharpening, polishing and thinning dream. It’s built like a Rolex and performs like a Ferrari. The design is exquisite simplicity. Every time I pull it out I discover something new. It’s a steal at twice the price. Can you tell I’m a fan?

 

[daveb]

Hey Dennis, I've still not used.mine - how bout a pic of yours in use?

 

[False_Cast]

Thanks for all the posts so far. I do really appreciate them.

I've decided to go coarser than 1k for my next stone. If I decide to go with diamond plates and/or wet dry 3m paper for thinning, what do is there a consensus as to a stone finer than major repair and still useful below my 1k Shapton Pro?

 

[abepaniagua]

I’ve all these stones and I settled on
300 King Delux
500 Shapton Glass Xthick
1-6K JKI Diamond Stones
Ohira Renge
Ohira Suita
Ozuku Suita assagi

Kasfly sand paper holder from K&S

Works for me

Dennis, what do you use to flatten your stones?

 

[masibu]

Thanks for all the posts so far. I do really appreciate them.

I've decided to go coarser than 1k for my next stone. If I decide to go with diamond plates and/or wet dry 3m paper for thinning, what do is there a consensus as to a stone finer than major repair and still useful below my 1k Shapton Pro?

If you're taking that approach to thinning and just need something to take out the scratches before the shapton 1k I would still say that the king 300 is a viable option but you may need to use some kind of nagura to aid in polishing out the scratches as it's not a particularly muddy stone and is quite hard.

If you are more inclined to use this stone to polish more so than setting bevels a softer/muddier stone may be beneficial but due to this they aren't going to be as great for setting bevels/repairing edges. They will be a bit slower and you need to use a bit more care so as to not to gouge the stone. They are also more prone to dishing so you will need to be vigilant in maintenance or they will soon get out of shape. Stones I have used in this category are the Naniwa super stone 200 grit, the imanishi pink brick, shapton pro 320 and Suehiro chemical 320 grit. These are all fairly soft (the naniwa more so) but are excellent for "polishing" out coarse scratches.

The naniwa is splash and go and super muddy and starts to build up a kasumi-esque finish on clad knives. Due to how muddy the stone is there is very little chance of raising large burrs and it can remove them very easily if they do form. They grind 'softly' so the edges it produces is rather clean- cleaner than the beston 500 that is usually recommended to people. However because the stone is so friable it's not well suited to actually setting a bevel or fixing chips. It can be done but you need a pretty light touch or you will just end up wasting a lot of stone very quickly

The pink brick is a soaking style stone which is slightly harder than the naniwa but develops that same mud without too much difficulty. Its a little bit easier to use for fixing up edges but not by much. Edges formed on this stone dont tend to form cleanly as easily as the naniwa

The suehiro chemical is also a soaking stone which behaves fairly similar to the pink brick but its a bit finer. I also noticed that one side of the stone feels slicker than the other (go figure). Its like this layer of crust surrounds it before you get to the creamy centre. Lapping it helps immensely if this proves to be an issue. You can put a slight amount of more pressure on this than the naniwa and it will grind a bit more efficiently. It forms cleaner edges than the pink brick and isnt too bad to use for chip repair. Its a nice middle ground compared to the naniwa and imanishi stones and has been my stone of choice recently for use as an all-rounder type coarse stone but I still need to cautious that it doesn't go out of flat as it can happen fairly easily.

The shapton 320 also fills a similar role to these stones and maybe cuts a little bit quicker than all of them. Its not a bad stone by any stretch but I still prefer the suehiro as the price is right and you get a fair amount of stone compared to the shapton. The shapton will wear pretty readily so its not going to get much of a lifespan.

All of this is a long winded way to recommend either the king or suehiro for this task. The king you may need to condition a little more and benefits from a nagura when polishing larger bevels but is excellent for forming edge bevels and chip repair. the suehiro will need flattening more frequently but will do better in polishing wide bevels. It is acceptable to form edge bevels with so long as you take a little bit more care on the stone.

 

[Drayquan]

Hey, I'm finding a lot of this info helpful, thanks!
I'm still narrowing down my search for a perfect 'very-coarse' stone to speed up repairs/bevel setting on cheap scratch resistant stainless.

My first coarse stone pick was the Chosera 400, and its fantastic all around, I love it's results: On certain alloys it can cut pretty quick on minor repairs/setting new bevels/thinning, but it really isn't the true heavy lifting COARSE stone I thought it would be. I'd even argue this one would fit better in the 'medium' stone category. I've found it to be a softer ceramic stone that it builds up mud pretty quick and, if used correctly, can achieve a decently polished hair popping finish. It does dish/wear a little quicker than I'd like (needing to be flattened a fair bit), but honestly, I can say that's my fault for using it on tougher tasks than I believe it was made for.

So, to handle the heavier repairs and pesky scratch resistant stainless, I'm about to click "buy" on the order for a King 300... but just looking at the digits, its only 100 grit lower than the Chosera 400. The noob in me thinks thats such a small difference that it's not worth it for me. However, from what I gather, there's a lot more difference to the King 300 Vs the Chosera 400 than just the #100 grit difference -- Things like overall bonding agent/particulate/compound hardness, and corresponding resistance to dishing are notable from reviews. I'm mainly concerned with cutting speed though.

Am I correct to assume I'll notice a worthy difference between the two if I get the king 300, even though its only a #100 difference? I'm confident it will dish/wear less (from multiple reviews), but will it cut noticeably faster on crappy stainless?
Given that I already have the Chosera 400, would I be better off getting something like the Shapton #120 or something else around the #120-220 range to round out my low end stone collection?

 

[Grunt173]

I think I would consider this myself if I wanted to go below the 400 grit.
https://www.japaneseknifeimports.co...coarse-stones/products/gesshin-220-grit-stone

 

[masibu]

Hey, I'm finding a lot of this info helpful, thanks!
I'm still narrowing down my search for a perfect 'very-coarse' stone to speed up repairs/bevel setting on cheap scratch resistant stainless.

My first coarse stone pick was the Chosera 400, and its fantastic all around, I love it's results: On certain alloys it can cut pretty quick on minor repairs/setting new bevels/thinning, but it really isn't the true heavy lifting COARSE stone I thought it would be. I'd even argue this one would fit better in the 'medium' stone category. I've found it to be a softer ceramic stone that it builds up mud pretty quick and, if used correctly, can achieve a decently polished hair popping finish. It does dish/wear a little quicker than I'd like (needing to be flattened a fair bit), but honestly, I can say that's my fault for using it on tougher tasks than I believe it was made for.

So, to handle the heavier repairs and pesky scratch resistant stainless, I'm about to click "buy" on the order for a King 300... but just looking at the digits, its only 100 grit lower than the Chosera 400. The noob in me thinks thats such a small difference that it's not worth it for me. However, from what I gather, there's a lot more difference to the King 300 Vs the Chosera 400 than just the #100 grit difference -- Things like overall bonding agent/particulate/compound hardness, and corresponding resistance to dishing are notable from reviews. I'm mainly concerned with cutting speed though.

Am I correct to assume I'll notice a worthy difference between the two if I get the king 300, even though its only a #100 difference? I'm confident it will dish/wear less (from multiple reviews), but will it cut noticeably faster on crappy stainless?
Given that I already have the Chosera 400, would I be better off getting something like the Shapton #120 or something else around the #120-220 range to round out my low end stone collection?

If you're looking for a more brutish stone then the king is unlikely to be what you're looking for. It is likely faster than the chosera but not sure if it would be enough to see a practical difference. I would put it in a similar category although it wont wear as much (especially on soft stainless and cladding) and will stay relatively flat easier as it is a high bond stone. It leaves a relatively fine finish despite being 300 grit. It would leave your chosera 400 as pretty redundant though. If you want something more coarse you can pick up one of the coarse shaptons but good luck getting much life out of them. They will wear pretty quickly, esp on cheap stainless.

I wore out my 120 in less than a year using it to thin everything i could find: cheap stainless, watanabe clad blue steel, several stainless clad japanese stainless/carbon, monosteel carbon/stainless and german steel. Im not a professional sharpener so to see such a small lifespan makes it hard for me to recommend it as a sole coarse stone, however it does have its niche if you have other coarse stones to supplement it (ill get to that).

Ive since moved to either coarse india or crystolon stones for heavy duty work. They were a MASSIVE improvement in that regard for cheap stainless and for thinning clad knives. They are also reasonably cheap, stay flat and can be used aggressively for reprofiling etc. Fixing chips is a breeze. It also allows you to continue using the chosera for general sharpening or minor damage and as a bridge between your next stone (i would think up to 2k which is actually a pretty good line up to tackle all stainless knives)

If i were thinning hard "monosteel" Japanese knives consistantly I would go for the shaptons (probably the 120 as its a bit muddier and faster cutting) as they will not load up where the india and crystolon (silicon carbide) may need periodic recutting with coarse grit. In this case the shaptons won't dish nearly as much so only then do they become preferable for me. it really depends on what knives you sharpen primarily. From there I can then proceed to polish out the scratches with one of my suehiro 300/king 300/super stone 220 and then proceed as normal. I imagine the chosera would suffice too. There is no magic bullet of the coarse stone world (at least to me). It is more about being aware of the pros and cons of each stone and even that depends on what you are actually doing (thinning/creating an edge bevel/polishing edge bevels/micro bevels) and the construction of the knife you are sharpening.

All this aside.. my next approach to large scale thinning will be using sandpaper so there is every possibility I could recommend that in the future. If that happens to work well I don't think I would miss the shaptons at all. For general maintenance i usually go with either of the india/crystolon/king/suehiro depending on my mood/amount of repair needed. The only reason i keep all of them is to learn what I can about them as its not always easy to find specific information about stones. comparing to other coarse stones is really the easiest way for me to learn for myself. I dont make money out of it but I do find it interesting.