"Real" Knives

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As a recovering "pro chef" who spends most of my time in the kitchen nowadays in a much more community facing role I have come to appreciate that what one considers a "real" knife depends a lot on your perspective.



One of the small business owners, a baker, that works out of the commissary kitchen is very impressed that I teach young students with "real knives". It took me a second to figure out what they mean. They meant that the knives were made of steel and they are deathly afraid of metal knives. I told her, "they are all real knives." I like that as part of my job I get to shepherd people along on their life knife journey.




Step 1. Someone with knife phobia. Or severe Parkinson's. Or a severe metal allergy or something. I'm going to get some cold hard steel in that baker's hands someday. Even if it's just a nice bread knife. These are what she uses:

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Step 2. Kids (18 and under) and folks just getting into cooking

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Step 3. I have a blind prep cook. They work for me but get paid by a nonprofit that connects folks with disabilities with job opportunities. Cuts all my potatoes, mirepoix, fruit cups, soup prep, etc. These are the knives she uses. Really very common type stuff in the industry. And what I train people on until they can handle Japanese style stuff without breaking it or hurting themselves.

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Step 4. The main tools for my line cooks once they are trained up. You really can't beat the performance and reliability of factory Japanese stuff at any cost.

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Step 5. What I use at home.

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Really interesting progression. If I had to name the knives I consider scariest, it would be serrated knives, not thin Japanese knives.

I didn't even know those plastic knives existed. Can they be sharpened?
 
Wasn't there a Shihan in your home kit?

Nice to see what people in the industry use.

I still have it.

Really interesting progression. If I had to name the knives I consider scariest, it would be serrated knives, not thin Japanese knives.

I didn't even know those plastic knives existed. Can they be sharpened?

I didn't know they existed either. If you rubbed them on a stone material would be removed. But it's unclear to me if that would make them sharper. 🤣
 
This is cool. From my experience a big thing with some of the phobia is size. My mom won't use a gyuto 210 or up but she'll happily use my santoku or bunka. Which doesn't really make sense because a sharp edge is a sharp edge
 
This is cool. From my experience a big thing with some of the phobia is size. My mom won't use a gyuto 210 or up but she'll happily use my santoku or bunka. Which doesn't really make sense because a sharp edge is a sharp edge
Definitely size, but also tip shape. I know people who would be terrified of using a 150mm petty, but would feel safer with a 165mm santoku or nakiri because they see the tip as less threatening.
 
Your third picture made me wonder whether we would see a Victorinox (or whatever those Vic- looking knives are) durability testing thread. Genuinely interested to see what kind of edge they could maintain.
 
Vnox could take a reasonable thin edge, thinned one, put a angle and it hasn’t dead on me
View attachment 291470
There is a good reason they are probably the most prevalent knife in pro kitchens; pass through the hands of a variety of chefs of varying skill levels, come into contact with steel tables, get thrown into steel drawers, put through dishwashers (and dishwashers' hands), dropped onto hard floors, and cheap as chips...
 
There is a good reason they are probably the most prevalent knife in pro kitchens; pass through the hands of a variety of chefs of varying skill levels, come into contact with steel tables, get thrown into steel drawers, put through dishwashers (and dishwashers' hands), dropped onto hard floors, and cheap as chips...
Victorinox were my main knives before I got into Japanese knives and there are still several living in my kitchen.
 
What are the Japanese knives in ‘step 4’? They kind of look like Masahiros. I agree, the factory made JKnives are hard to beat for value, though they probably wouldn’t stand up as well to abuse as a plastic-handled stainless knife. One of the 3M’s monosteel carbon knives are quite nice if you thin and polish the blades and round/smooth the handles.


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1. I’m glad the blind woman is still working for you.

2. How do I get a free mini milkshake?

I am glad she is still working for me too! I don't know how I did everything before she started.

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Sorry bud. No more milkshakes. And definitely no free milkshakes. That was from a menu from before my time. But if you make it to RVA I'll do you one better and buy you lunch.
 
Your third picture made me wonder whether we would see a Victorinox (or whatever those Vic- looking knives are) durability testing thread. Genuinely interested to see what kind of edge they could maintain.

My first chef knife was a Vic. I have used them quite a bit over the years. There was even one in the community kitchen for a long time but it disappeared. I don't really care for them to be honest. A lot of people consider them to be the best chef knife you can get for under $50. The problem is I don't find them to be much better than a similar Dexter Russell Sanisafe or Mercer that you can get for $20 or a similar WinCo that you can get for $11. Maybe twenty years ago the Vic was noticably better but the competition has caught up.

For all of these basic commercial knives the attributes are basically the same. The edge retention is crap but the knives have a pretty laserish geometry that keeps them cutting for a long time. They are easy to maintain pretty indefinitely on a ceramic rod if you know what you are doing because the steel is fairly coarse so you put a nice toothy what the old timers call a "working" edge on it. Pretty fat bevel on the thin flat grind. A couple of swipes a day and you might only need to put them on stones every few months. Or if you don't mind a little recurve in your life, never. And they are soft enough and stainless enough to put up with any kind of abuse. And they are boring enough that people don't usually steal them. I also run them through dish machines and use them to break up chunks of frozen stock and chicken parts and cut right on the steel tables, etc etc and they never complain.
 
What are the Japanese knives in ‘step 4’? They kind of look like Masahiros. I agree, the factory made JKnives are hard to beat for value, though they probably wouldn’t stand up as well to abuse as a plastic-handled stainless knife. One of the 3M’s monosteel carbon knives are quite nice if you thin and polish the blades and round/smooth the handles.


View attachment 291499

Kanehide TK

https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/old-beater-meet-new-beater.44563/
 
I just recalled where I'd seen those plastic knives before. They are called lettuce knives as they supposedly stop the lettuce from oxidizing
https://ifoodequipment.ca/products/oneida-lk-115-commercial-lettuce-knife-plastic

That makes a ton of sense. I figured they were just safety knives for kids or something. This person makes bread pudding. A couple of different kinds that gets sold in some local grocery stores. I'm not even sure what she chops. Mostly she uses mixing bowls and the oven. But for whatever she needs to cut she uses these plastic things. On the teeniest tiniest boards in the kitchen.
 
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