Recommendations for 1-2 JNats for Polishing

[tostadas]

I'm looking for a couple stones to have as my "base" for polishing bevels. I'm wondering what you guys would consider must-have stones for your polishing. I'm trying to grab a couple stones that could be used for majority of cases. For example comparison, if sharpening on synthetics, I'd say I could maintain any of my knives with a shapton 1k+2k combo, or a 500+3k. What should I look for if picking up 1 or 2 stones?

Some background info to help. Right now I have a bunch of synthetics that I can do flattening and setting bevels with (naniwa 200, shapton 1k/2k/5k). My naturals include a soft muddy aoto, a hard aiiwatani (vendor said approx 6k grit but I can't really confirm), and an assortment of various small pieces (5-50g) that I use sort of like finger stones. I think to save some money, I’d likely go synthetics up to 2k or 5k, then jump to some sort of naturals.

What I’m trying to figure out is what characteristics I should look for in 2 stones to follow low/mid grit synthetics. I understand that no 2 natural stones will be the same, but I’m wondering where to start (hardness/fineness). Budget let’s say $100-150ea. I don’t mind koppa stones to keep the cost reasonable. I only plan to play with the few knives that I have and pretty them up every once in a while.

 

[LostHighway]

No two Jnats are exactly alike even if they are from the same layer in the same mine with very similar surface details so it is a bit of a crap shoot. Ohira Uchigumoris generally tend to be in approximately the 3k - 6k range and I don't find the one I have difficult to use. I typically step from that to a Marouyama Suita Giwa Daijo. If I was going beyond that point to a true finisher I'd be looking something like a nice Nakayama.
Below the Uchi a finer Aizu example should get into the 4k territory, a Ueno will probably partially overlap the Uchi but likely be harder. I also have a Umajiyama that can precede the Uchi.
I am, however, still something of a rube when it comes to Jnats. If you want legitimate expertise @Badgertooth, @valgard, @nutmeg, and maybe half-a-dozen others are the people to turn to.

 

[inferno]

i have 1 ohira uchigumori and it creates a very nice finish on pretty much everything.
then my other 2 nats are coticules. those are really nice too.

i have seen white-ish suitas produce very nice finishes too.

i dont think you can go wrong with an uchigumori and then maybe something finer.

the cool thing with uchis is that it takes pretty much 0 effort to get a good even finish out of them as opposed to synths.

 

[tostadas]

Ohira Uchigumoris generally tend to be in approximately the 3k - 6k range and I don't find the one I have difficult to use. I typically step from that to a Marouyama Suita Giwa Daijo. If I was going beyond that point to a true finisher I'd be looking something like a nice Nakayama.
Below the Uchi a finer Aizu example should get into the 4k territory, a Ueno will probably partially overlap the Uchi but likely be harder. I also have a Umajiyama that can precede the Uchi.

i have 1 ohira uchigumori and it creates a very nice finish on pretty much everything.
then my other 2 nats are coticules. those are really nice too.

i have seen white-ish suitas produce very nice finishes too.

i dont think you can go wrong with an uchigumori and then maybe something finer.

For finishing after an uchigumori, how hard and fine would the stone be?

 

[ethompson]

I am not an expert polisher, but I have taken a similar approach to my polishing kit as what you’re describing as I just don’t have the ability to accumulate a horde of different JNats at this time.

From what I gathered, an uchigumori is the best starting point and offers a good finish on pretty much anything unless you have a very, very hard specimen. While the finishes aren’t as fine as a high-end suita or the like, they offer a good starting point for kasumi polishing, can create kick-ass scratch free finishes, are relatively user friendly, and are usually easy enough to pick up without really breaking the bank. As long as you have a good variety of synthetics and are very careful about laying down a good scratch pattern up to ~5-6k, you don’t really need a pre-polisher. Instead, I’d get your hands on as many different types of finger stones as you can. Getting a perfect streak free finish off a bench stone is bloody difficult and having a variety of finger stones can take your finishes from good to great. Also easier to play with more types of stone that way.

I can’t wait to start expanding my bench stone collection, but until then my sole uchi and my (dwindling) supply of finger stones scratches the itch quite well.

 

[inferno]

i go uchi after synth 1k. it just works. no scratch finish every time.

 

[user 16756]

while I would probably not recommend an uchi as stone 1 or 2, especially in the sub 200 dollar range, I dont disagree that you can go straight from a softer medium synth to one and just have a great looking finish.

if you can get a smaller, softer ohira shiro suita then I would. overall my favorite stones though suitas from Maru and Shobu are great too.

one of those and a smaller aizu would be nice. I use an aizu before going to suita/uchi myself and I really like it.

 

[inferno]

https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/ohira-uchigumori.51692/
nutmeg might have more uchigumoris for sale if you ask him.

 

[inferno]

here is my uchi in action, its on the bottom of the page. there you can see what kind of finish that can be expected from them.

https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/help-identifying-this-jnat.51508/

 

[user 16756]

I want to add I think another great option is to look at "the usual good vendors" and ask for a stone that doesnt have the big $$$ checkboxes but does what you want it to do.

I have a shobudani I got from JNS on sale, 150 ish dollars, it's a decent size and it's a wonderful muddy mess that does a great finish and leaves a great edge, too. sometimes I use it instead of my aizu, I could live with either one at the expense of the other if I had to. You can also wait for a Hideriyama or Oouchi restock from JKI. some of these stones are actually a bit safer bets than just going and sorting by "date - new to told" on some vendors who are a bit less involved in their stone stocks.

I really only have one jant I dont love and it's just because it's too dang hard for my preferences. everything else has its own merits.

 

[valgard]

For polishing only you could use synthetics until ~4k and then a soft finisher in the 5-7k range. Don't get trapped on names, they mean very little for intrinsic qualities most of the time.

I personally like to have an Aizu + a soft finisher as a combo. The Aizu doubles as my final edge stone for gyuto and use it for polishing before the soft finisher. Caveat here is that Aizu aren't generally soft and some people find them a little harder to use for polishing. But I find them much easier than average with a little slurry

 

[user 16756]

For polishing only you could use synthetics until ~4k and then a soft finisher in the 5-7k range. Don't get trapped on names, they mean very little for intrinsic qualities most of the time.

I personally like to have an Aizu + a soft finisher as a combo. The Aizu doubles as my final edge stone for gyuto and use it for polishing before the soft finisher. Caveat here is that Aizu aren't generally soft and some people find them a little harder to use for polishing. But I find them much easier than average with a little slurry

great point here, my aizu goes from slow & a bit frustrating for polish to legitimately awesome with a bit of atoma 1200 slurry

I bought a 1.5kg aizu for 300 dollars too; that's a hard deal to beat considering how good it is at both pre-polish and carbon gyuto/petty edges

 

[valgard]

Also, an Aizu polish isn't very refined if you're looking super close but it still looks pretty good to me.

 

[valgard]

great point here, my aizu goes from slow & a bit frustrating for polish to legitimately awesome with a bit of atoma 1200 slurry

I bought a 1.5kg aizu for 300 dollars too; that's a hard deal to beat considering how good it is at both pre-polish and carbon gyuto/petty edges

What happens with a lot of jnats is that people don't experiment on how to properly use them and expect them all to work in the same way, sometimes in the same way as synthetics.
I just use a worn out atoma 140 plate on most stones I want slurry for, but I do have a 400, a 1200, and several natural naguras. I don't use slurry for all stones or all circumstances either.

 

[user 16756]

What happens with a lot of jnats is that people don't experiment on how to properly use them and expect them all to work in the same way, sometimes in the same way as synthetics.
I just use a worn out atoma 140 plate on most stones I want slurry for, but I do have a 400, a 1200, and several natural naguras. I don't use slurry for all stones or all circumstances either.

yeah I mean I know you're right about a lot of folks, but me personally I paid for that stone Im finding a way to make it work come hell or high water.

 

[valgard]

Yeah, I meant it as a general statement. You already indicated in your previous message at least having done some exploring for sure.
But what I meant is that I see often people complain that so or so stone is useless or bad, and more often than not (but not always obviously), it just needs to be used under different conditions.

 

[tostadas]

For polishing only you could use synthetics until ~4k and then a soft finisher in the 5-7k range. Don't get trapped on names, they mean very little for intrinsic qualities most of the time.

I personally like to have an Aizu + a soft finisher as a combo. The Aizu doubles as my final edge stone for gyuto and use it for polishing before the soft finisher. Caveat here is that Aizu aren't generally soft and some people find them a little harder to use for polishing. But I find them much easier than average with a little slurry

This is very helpful. I try not to get fixated on names because, like people have mentioned, even 2 stones from the same strata and mine can behave completely differently. How would you describe your aizu and finisher in terms of softness and fineness?

 

[valgard]

This is very helpful. I try not to get fixated on names because, like people have mentioned, even 2 stones from the same strata and mine can behave completely differently. How would you describe your aizu and finisher in terms of softness and fineness?

Well, I'm not a shinning example of that minimalist approach...

My favorite Aizu is something medium hard to hard, the behaviour and feel however depends a lot non how I'm using it but the base is hard-ish and finishes around 4k. What I was mentioning above was a hypothetical case of only having two stones, and the finisher I mentioned would be one of my soft finishers around LVL 3 and probably 6-7k grit.