Searching for a <$200 gyuto

[Burtini]

Hey guys,

Hoping you will be able to help me decide on my first Japanese gyuto. I've been researching for several weeks now but I'm having trouble finding something that fits all of/most of my parameters. Here are a few knives that have stood out on my search so far in no particular order and what I like/dislike about them. Would love to hear your thoughts if you happen to own, or have tried any of them.

• Masakage Yuki - Pros: Aesthetically pleasing, nice handle, stainless clad white #2 steel Cons: Fairly wide grind at spine

• JCK Blue #2 Clad - Pros: Good steel/clad/grind, fairly priced Cons: Generic Yo handle, limited availability in 210mm size

• JCK Carbonext - Pros: Price/availability, grind looks good Cons: Mystery steel, generic Yo handle

• Toshihiro Wakui - Pros: Perfect spine thickness, good profile, stainless clad white #2, nice handle Cons: Can't find any info on the knife, pricey

• Kohetsu Nashiji - Pros: Stainless clad blue #2 steel, nice handle, good flat-spot Cons: Thick grind, looks short

• Misono Carbon - Pros: Fit and finish, grind, price Cons: Yo handle, non Japanese steel, strong reactivity

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LOCATION
What country are you in?
Canada


KNIFE TYPE
What type of knife are you interested in (e.g., chef’s knife, slicer, boning knife, utility knife, bread knife, paring knife, cleaver)?
Gyuto, or K-Tip Gyuto

Are you right or left handed?
Right handed

Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle?
More interested in a Wa handle but would consider a Yo providing it's comfortable for pinch grip

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)?
210-230mm

Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no)
No, hoping for something in Aogami Blue #2, Super, or Shirogami White #2. Stainless cladding would be ideal but wouldn't mind a full carbon blade.

What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife?
Would prefer to spend somewhere closer to $100 but I'll go up to $200USD for the right knife.


KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment?
Primarily for restaurant prep, but also for home use.

What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.)
General purpose, vegetables, raw and cooked meats. No bones or frozen foods.

What knife, if any, are you replacing?
Second hand Henckels and a Victorinox Fibrox.

Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for the common types of grips.)
Pinch grip 99% of the time.

What cutting motions do you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for types of cutting motions and identify the two or three most common cutting motions, in order of most used to least used.)
Push-cutting>chopping>walking

What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.)
Looking for something that is easy to sharpen, and that will hold an edge for a decent amount of time. Ergonomics are very important to me as well. Comfort in a pinch grip is a priority.

Better aesthetics (e.g., a certain type of finish; layered/Damascus or other pattern of steel; different handle color/pattern/shape/wood; better scratch resistance; better stain resistance)?
Only aesthetic detail I'm looking to stay away from is a plastic ferrule. Also don't love the damascus look mostly because I feel it looks cheap, but that's not a deal breaker.

Comfort (e.g., lighter/heavier knife; better handle material; better handle shape; rounded spine/choil of the knife; improved balance)?
Mid-light weight, oval, octagonal, or d-handle

Ease of Use (e.g., ability to use the knife right out of the box; smoother rock chopping, push cutting, or slicing motion; less wedging; better food release; less reactivity with food; easier to sharpen)?
Hoping for something with a decent flat spot for light chopping, easy of sharpening would be a big plus as well.

Edge Retention (i.e., length of time you want the edge to last without sharpening)?
Would prefer good edge retention but ease of sharpening is a bigger priority for me.



KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board? (Yes or no.)
Mostly synthetic, some bamboo. Looking to get/make a hardwood end-grain board sometime in the future.

Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.)
Not yet

If not, are you interested in learning how to sharpen your knives? (Yes or no.)
Yes

Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? (Yes or no.)
Yes, looking at getting three Naniwa Traditional stones in 220, 1k, and 6k.



SPECIAL REQUESTS/COMMENTS
A source with reasonable shipping to Canada would be a big plus.

 

[McMan]

Masakage will go on sale at Knifewear in February (15% off IIRC). Plus, Knifewear is in Canada and so should save you shipping. Yuki is a good knife, thin behind the edge, stainless clad. It's not trendy and has been around a while and so doesn't get recommended much anymore, but it's a solid performer. I've had one for years and can't complain. Wakui is great too. You can find good prices on them in the US, but the shipping'll probably ding you. I haven't tried any of the others you're asking about except for the Carbonext, which didn't impress me.

 

[panda]

wakui gonna be the best out of your list
for stone, this only one you need https://www.ebay.com/itm/SUEHIRO-ST...800-Ceramic-Whetstone-from-Japan/323418914226

 

[Burtini]

Masakage will go on sale at Knifewear in February (15% off IIRC). Plus, Knifewear is in Canada and so should save you shipping. Yuki is a good knife, thin behind the edge, stainless clad. It's not trendy and has been around a while and so doesn't get recommended much anymore, but it's a solid performer. I've had one for years and can't complain. Wakui is great too. You can find good prices on them in the US, but the shipping'll probably ding you. I haven't tried any of the others you're asking about except for the Carbonext, which didn't impress me.

Good to know about the Knifewear sale, I live quite close to their Vancouver location too so I might go check out the knife in store soon. Have you noticed any problems with taller ingredients when using the Yuki? I read a review where the reviewer stated "...cutting things like carrots was embarrassing—the accelerated transition from the thin edge to the convex grind meant the knife just wanted to STOP about 1/8 to 1/4 of the way into the cut. I should add that a friend of mine tried this first on a carrot and his disbelief was loud and surprised enough that I immediately grabbed the knife to prove him wrong…and then turned white."

The Wakui honestly looks perfect but I just received a shipping quote from Epicurean Edge of $40USD which adds up to over $300CAD by the time it's through customs which is more than I was hoping to spend.

 

[Burtini]

wakui gonna be the best out of your list
for stone, this only one you need https://www.ebay.com/itm/SUEHIRO-ST...800-Ceramic-Whetstone-from-Japan/323418914226

I was looking at the Cerax stones as well. Do you think it's worth buying a combo stone instead of seperate stones for each grit? I'm worried about wearing them down but maybe that would take longer than I'm expecting. Also, is 3k a fine enough grit for finishing in your opinion?

 

[McMan]

Have you noticed any problems with taller ingredients when using the Yuki? I read a review where the reviewer stated "...cutting things like carrots was embarrassing—the accelerated transition from the thin edge to the convex grind meant the knife just wanted to STOP about 1/8 to 1/4 of the way into the cut. I should add that a friend of mine tried this first on a carrot and his disbelief was loud and surprised enough that I immediately grabbed the knife to prove him wrong…and then turned white."

Nope, I haven't had the experience that quote describes. If I had a gripe with the Yuki it's that the heel is curved not straight--which takes a little getting used to in a pinch grip.
For Wakui, try Bernal:
http://bernal-cutlery.shoplightspeed.com/wakui-240mm-gyuto-shirogami-2-red-ebony.html

 

[Burtini]

Nope, I haven't had the experience that quote describes. If I had a gripe with the Yuki it's that the heel is curved not straight--which takes a little getting used to in a pinch grip.
For Wakui, try Bernal:
http://bernal-cutlery.shoplightspeed.com/wakui-240mm-gyuto-shirogami-2-red-ebony.html

Looks like Bernal has more selection but shipping is the same and prices are a bit higher. Does the curve still bug you or was it just something you weren't used to?

 

[McMan]

Looks like Bernal has more selection but shipping is the same and prices are a bit higher. Does the curve still bug you or was it just something you weren't used to?

Got used to it.

 

[sac36555]

I bought the 240mm Wakui at Bernal Cutlery and have been very happy with it. You won’t be disappointed with your purchase. It’s a much higher quality knife than any if the other knives on your list

 

[Burtini]

I bought the 240mm Wakui at Bernal Cutlery and have been very happy with it. You won’t be disappointed with your purchase. It’s a much higher quality knife than any if the other knives on your list

It fits my parameters perfectly but with the Canadian exchange rate I don't know if I can fork over that much cash right now.

 

[athel]

What about a Tanaka in blue #2 (http://www.knivesandstones.com/tanaka-blue-2-nashiji-gyuto-210mm-stainless-clad/)? Although I haven't used the nashiji version, which is stainless clad per your preferences, the damascus clad is the best value gyuto I've ever used. Plus the knives and stones Tanakas have really nice upgraded ebony handles, and excellent fit and finish: you mentioned that comfort is important to you, and this knife has a rounded spine and choil. I've also owned a Yuki gyuto, and I much preferred the Tanaka. Shipping should be cheap, but I'm not sure about Canadian customs (although note that you don't have to pay GST on the Tanaka!!).

 

[sac36555]

It fits my parameters perfectly but with the Canadian exchange rate I don't know if I can fork over that much cash right now.

You could also check out a Tanaka Ginsan Gyuto from K&S.

 

[Danzo]

You could also check out a Tanaka Ginsan Gyuto from K&S.

+1 Tanaka ginsan. Lite version F&F is rough but will save you some bucks. Probably my favorite cutter out of all my knives

 

[Danzo]

But, from your list Wakui get my vote

 

[Burtini]

Yeah those K&S Tanakas look really nice, and exchange rate works in my favour from Australia. Still a bit more than I was hoping to spend but I can swallow it I think. When comparing the stainless clad #2 and damascus #2, is the damascus just pure folded Aogami blue #2 or does it include other steel? What would be the advantage of damascus vs regular blue #2?

You could also check out a Tanaka Ginsan Gyuto from K&S.

Ginsan is a stainless steel isn't it?

 

[Grunt173]

First knife was Yuki,second knife was a Tanaka Ginsan and third knife was a Wakui. Still have all three but that Wakui sure is something.Never had a problem with my 210 or 240 Yukis.I've cut some big onions with mine and they just glide through so not sure about the wedging.

 

[athel]

Yes, ginsan is stainless. Since you said you'd prefer carbon, go with the blue #2!

I'm not sure if the grinds differ between the blue #2 nashiji and damascus versions (someone else may know), but all else being equal, damascus doesn't have a performance advantage, it's purely aesthetic. The damascus cladding does not contain aogami steel, but instead a softer iron metal. To expand a bit, both knives are clad--that is there's a harder core steel (in this case blue #2) sandwiched on either side by softer cladding, which generally makes the knife easier to maintain in the long run. For the nashiji version, that cladding is stainless; for the damascus, it is not.

Since you expressed an interest in a stainless-clad knife, I would go with the nashiji. In my experience, the damascus Tanaka was pretty reactive.

 

[Burtini]

Yes, ginsan is stainless. Since you said you'd prefer carbon, go with the blue #2!

I'm not sure if the grinds differ between the blue #2 nashiji and damascus versions (someone else may know), but all else being equal, damascus doesn't have a performance advantage, it's purely aesthetic. The damascus cladding does not contain aogami steel, but instead a softer iron metal. To expand a bit, both knives are clad--that is there's a harder core steel (in this case blue #2) sandwiched on either side by softer cladding, which generally makes the knife easier to maintain in the long run. For the nashiji version, that cladding is stainless; for the damascus, it is not.

Since you expressed an interest in a stainless-clad knife, I would go with the nashiji. In my experience, the damascus Tanaka was pretty reactive.

Ah, thank you for the thorough explanation. I didn't realize the damascus blade was clad. Do you know if the damascus clad provides any advantage over the stainless, such as ease of thinning?

 

[Burtini]

First knife was Yuki,second knife was a Tanaka Ginsan and third knife was a Wakui. Still have all three but that Wakui sure is something.Never had a problem with my 210 or 240 Yukis.I've cut some big onions with mine and they just glide through so not sure about the wedging.

What is it about the Wakui that makes it stand out? Also if you were to choose between the Masakage or Tanaka ignoring steel which would you choose?

 

[Grunt173]

What is it about the Wakui that makes it stand out? Also if you were to choose between the Masakage or Tanaka ignoring steel which would you choose?

For me,what stands out for the Wakui is how it feels in my hand.It is nimble and well balanced while being very thin behind the edge with a wonderful grind.Got mine through Bernal and it has a beautiful handle too.For the price,you would be hard pressed to find better.It just seems to cut everything with ease.I bought mine because of great reviews and it does not disappoint.Between the Tanaka and the Masakage,my opinion of course,I like the Tanakas.I have several in different flavors,nashiji and ginsanko. Got all mine from K&S.Now I might have lucked out getting my Yukis because the grinds on mine are good but I have heard others say that theirs were not so there might be a Monday or Friday problem with the Masakage.
edit to add that I also have a Masakage Mizu which is the worse knife I have.It was so thick behind the edge that I might get done thinning it in another hundred years.

 

[athel]

The damascus could be easier to thin, but I dont know. Someone wirh more experience will have to advise you on that.

But given that it sounds like you'll be using this knife for most of your tasks in the kitchen, my personal preference would be to get the stainless clad, as it's less maintence, and easier to use with acidic and reactive foods.

That said, it's just that, a personal preference. There's no wrong choice!

Also, the k&s Tanaka has a much nicer handle than the Yuki in my opinion

 

[LostHighway]

The Damascus Tanka is a touch heavier and the grind is more convex. Many people seem to feel that it has better food release than stainless-clad Nashiji. The Nashiji is thinner behind the edge. I've been told the Ginsan is lighter and thinner yet. The Wakui is probably flatter than either Tanaka. All these offer excellent value and I think it comes down to individual preference.

 

[Ochazuke]

+1 to the Wakui recommendation.

 

[Grunt173]

Just an after thought but since shipping would probably stick you pretty bad for ordering the Wakui I would just get the Tanaka Ginsan and not think twice about it.It's that good in my book.The Ginsan is one of those knives that I grab when I don't feel like worrying about wiping constantly during food preps,that or my En Ginsanko from JKI.

 

[Ruso]

Another vote for Tanaka. Does not matter which one, IMHO all around best bank for the $.
Metalmaster got some stock on Tanakas as well after almost 8month. But not such a wide selection compared to KnS or that level of F&F.

Also Knifewear is somewhat overpriced.

 

[Burtini]

Just an after thought but since shipping would probably stick you pretty bad for ordering the Wakui I would just get the Tanaka Ginsan and not think twice about it.It's that good in my book.The Ginsan is one of those knives that I grab when I don't feel like worrying about wiping constantly during food preps,that or my En Ginsanko from JKI.

The lite version is very tempting with the price it's at. How much more difficult do you find it sharpening Ginsan steel than Aogami #2 or Shirogami #2?

 

[Burtini]

Another vote for Tanaka. Does not matter which one, IMHO all around best bank for the $.
Metalmaster got some stock on Tanakas as well after almost 8month. But not such a wide selection compared to KnS or that level of F&F.

Also Knifewear is somewhat overpriced.

I'll check out metalmaster. Knifewear is a little pricey but everything is in CAD and I could skip duties and shipping altogether if I went with something from them.

 

[Xenif]

+1 on Tanaka, especially the ginsan. The blue#2 is also very good. That why I have 3 of them. Im not sure if you like a heavier or lighter knife but the nashiji ginsan are very light.

Theres a reason why people keep suggesting Tanaka, probably $ for $ best value. Also at the Kaeru from JNS, 100% you will get hit with import duties though. Ordering fron KnS probably no duties but free shipping starts at 300aud.

 

[Xenif]

I'll check out metalmaster. Knifewear is a little pricey but everything is in CAD and I could skip duties and shipping altogether if I went with something from them.

If you stick with a local retailer you will be stuck with the high prices, plus tax, but you get to try it out. I have not had an issue with import duties from japan, ever. Also, MM prices have gone up, if you compare the damascus 210/240 with KnS its cheaper only by a bit and you get a not so desirable plastic frule, where the KNS versions are rounded, better handles.

 

[Ruso]

If you stick with a local retailer you will be stuck with the high prices, plus tax, but you get to try it out. I have not had an issue with import duties from japan, ever. Also, MM prices have gone up, if you compare the damascus 210/240 with KnS its cheaper only by a bit and you get a not so desirable plastic frule, where the KNS versions are rounded, better handles.

True that. Just a little addition, MM has $7 shipping, much cheaper compared to KnS unless you qualify to the free tier.
Also MM ships EMS which is so much better compared to “private” shipping companies. Man, I just cant express how much I hate them. That’s actually one big reason I am buying my Tanakas through MM today. James was not very eager to ship EMS.

Oh, OP - if you buy from MM - be warn, poor to non-existent communication and it could take a while for the knives to be shipped. If this is of concer for you, don’t do MM.