Choppin
Senior Member
how would you compare the Debado MD-100 with the SP1k?
Shapton Pro 1k
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Yamabushi
Well-Known Member
IMO, the Shapton Pro #1000 is more of a true #600 or so. It is hard and cuts well with decent feedback. The Debado MD-100 feels more like a true #1200-1500. It also is quite firm, cuts very well, feels very nice, and leaves an excellent kasumi finish on my Heiji's. I really like both!
I have nothing to add, but God I love threads like this.
Curious about the chosera 1k comparison as well.
I picked up a used 1.5k for razors, happy so far. Good lord does is suck to flatten.
Curious about the chosera 1k comparison as well.
I picked up a used 1.5k for razors, happy so far. Good lord does is suck to flatten.
SolidSnake03
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Comparing the Shapton Pro 1k to the Chosera 1k? I got you on that one. The Shapton feels harder, dishes less, doesn't turn your sink green and also cuts much faster. That said, it doesn't leave the nicest scratch pattern (still a fine pattern but helps to have another middle grit stone to follow it) and feeling isn't the best. The Chosera is much more tactile in feeling, softer in feeling although not soft per say and finishes much finer. Basically the Shapton Pro 1k is coarser than it's grit while the Chosera 1k is finer. The Chosera 1k after the Shapton Pro 1k actually makes a very nice edge/stopping point. The Chosera 1k does a nice job laying down a fairly shallow and nicely contrasted scratch pattern after the Shapton Pro 1k.
Anyways I think of these stones as being used more together in a progression but not an either or since they are quite different in grits actually despite both being listed as a 1k.
Anyways I think of these stones as being used more together in a progression but not an either or since they are quite different in grits actually despite both being listed as a 1k.
Ha! Yes, these SPs are a bloody nightmare to flatten. At BF they actually usually use worn grinding belts for it, just cos it's such a tedious pain to do by hand.
Flattening with a diamond plate was laughable - had to bust out the SiC. It’s worse than most natural stones.
For edges, I honestly don’t see the point of the SP1k - from everything I’ve heard the Chosera is just as quick, leaves a nicer edge, and has more consistency for your next bump up the ladder (like @SolidSnake03 mentioned).
Is the SP1k more useful in a high volume setting where you’re just getting **** done, and the stone lasts longer and stays flatter longer? I can totally see that use case. Also the wide bevel use that @Steampunk mentioned makes sense. I just struggle to see why I’d used it for edges at home.
Man this forum is dorky, and I’m one of the problems.
For edges, I honestly don’t see the point of the SP1k - from everything I’ve heard the Chosera is just as quick, leaves a nicer edge, and has more consistency for your next bump up the ladder (like @SolidSnake03 mentioned).
Is the SP1k more useful in a high volume setting where you’re just getting **** done, and the stone lasts longer and stays flatter longer? I can totally see that use case. Also the wide bevel use that @Steampunk mentioned makes sense. I just struggle to see why I’d used it for edges at home.
Man this forum is dorky, and I’m one of the problems.
The Chosera 1k nothing like as quick ime; I'd call it a very slow '1k' stone, while the SP is a very fast '1k'. I think I'd probably agree with Snake above when he said they're actually different enough from each other that you could happily have both in a progression.
Though FWIW - I really like the Shapton, and I think the Chosera is a bit naff (from memory, I haven't used it all that recently tbh). For me the just-north-of-1k area is a difficult place for other manufacturers to be playing, because the King1200 and Cerax 1500 are just so, so good.
I am a newbie / home user, but the SP1K is my favorite stone. Pretty easy to jump from the SP1K to an Aizu or another mid-grit edge finisher and call it good. It is a hard stone, but the overall feel seems nice for how coarse it is. There has been some discussion about whether it is user-friendly / newbie friendly. My thoughts are that it is very user-friendly. I am still working on my technique, and so far my best results have been with the least amount of time to raise an even bur on just a couple of stones. It is really fun to work steel on stone but the truth is less is more! I have not tried a NP1K. I would really like to. In the US they are more expensive than most other options. Unless a higher grit stone (2-3K) will not remove scratches from the edge of a SP1K I am not sure it makes sense yet. The Aizu I have will remove most of those scratches with some pressure / work. Not the most ideal though. I have the Morihei 1k in the mail so hoping to have a better understanding of hard/soft, fast/slow in the near future. Polishing is a different story because the 1k will definitely produce some scratches. I do not think it is the "1k" stone you want to step up to a natural unless you are going to start rather coarse. The NP1k sounds more ideal for that and I'd like to experiment with it soon.
Edit: I have used the SP1k on Global and MAC stainless and have had absolutely no issues raising a burr in minimal time. I could probably stop at that stone as I do not love how the stainless plays on my current finishers.
Current stones (Morihei 500, SP1K, SP5k, BBW, Aizu)
Just a very small grain of salt from a newb!
Edit: I have used the SP1k on Global and MAC stainless and have had absolutely no issues raising a burr in minimal time. I could probably stop at that stone as I do not love how the stainless plays on my current finishers.
Current stones (Morihei 500, SP1K, SP5k, BBW, Aizu)
Just a very small grain of salt from a newb!
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Don't forget gesshin 2k
Please stop mentioning stones I don't have. You make me spend money.
And the gesshin 4k...
$135 is totally reasonable for a snobby synth
I was going to mention this one....
MattPike4President
Well-Known Member
Picked one of these up recently and it's just been blowing my mind. Feels incredible, cuts as fast or faster than my Naniwa Pro 800, and leaves a super functional edge for professional use.
Choppin
Senior Member
Gesshin 2k is one of my favorites as well, although it’s a soaker. just like the G4k, it can work as a one-and-done stone for many knives (sharpen and finish).
I’m also curious to try the Debado 1k that was mentioned here, should fit into the north-of-1k spectrum
I’m also curious to try the Debado 1k that was mentioned here, should fit into the north-of-1k spectrum
It's been hard to get truly excited about a mid grit kitchen knife stone after this one. Neither are any good for razors, but that's a different story.
I have a stone “wishlist”. Reading this thread has made me put more stones on it than other thread. And they are all within 3500 grit. 
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Well, that seems normal to me. Here's a list of just my 1000 grit non-diamond stones:I have a stone “wishlist”. Reading this thread has made me put more stones on it than other thread. And they are all within 3500 grit.
Shapton Glass
Gesshin giant soaker
Naniwa Hibiki
Naniwa Superstone
Suehiro Debado
Morihei
King Hyper
Ok team, let's have a look...
SG500, SP1k, SG1k, SP1.5k. Mild steel clad Shirogami 2 Kiridashi for scratch patterns / polish, and an Aogami 2 blade for sharpening. I did try sharpening cheap stainless too, and my impressions of the stones was pretty much the same.
---
I'm sure I don't need to explain to anyone here what an SG500 polish looks like - you've all got one. And if you don't then you want to take a long, hard look at yourself in the mirror, and ask if you are really, truly happy with your life choices so far.
The SP1k is considerably finer, this isn't an 'either or' situation, it's probably up at around 800 level imo. Both are relatively consistent in terms of not having different grit scratches within the same stone. There's more contrast in the SP.
The SG1k surprised me quite a lot (for reasons I'll explain later). This is finer again, much more integrated and blended. Little contrast.
And the SP1.5k, which has more contrast than the above, but a more noticeable scratch pattern. There's something about this that I quite like.
Would I choose any of them as a polishing stone over a nice soaker at the same level? Probably not. I might be tempted by the SP1.5k over some of the competition, and frankly the SG500 is so versatile that it’s a bit of a no-brainer for anything.
Onto the pointier end of stuff though...
---
As I may have hinted earlier - the SG500 is just an awesome stone. If you look at the rate it abrades compared to the level it finishes, then it probably has the largest range of any synth I've used, with the possible exception of the Medium India. Not desperately easy to deburr on.
The paper towel cut from the SP1K is much cleaner, it finishes a good bit higher than the SG500, and it's just a cleaner edge all round. This stone is seriously, seriously impressive for sharpening.
Now through all of this the thing that surprised me most was the SG1K. Possibly because I hadn't used one in a while, but nevertheless - this stone is fast af. I wasn't actually clocking much difference in speed, or grit, between the Pro and the Glass, they are both very pacey and probably finish below 1k. The glass was very difficult for me to deburr well on though, that's why this cut is so ragged. Quite why the polishes were so different I've no idea.
And last but not least, I shall also have to revise my opinion on the SP1.5K. Little bit of a soak and this is actually a really nice stone. This edge is the only one of the four where I wouldn't necessarily go to another stone after. It's good to go as is.
---
So there are my hastily cobbled together thoughts about Shapton mid grits.
I was more than a little bit impressed tbh. Every one of these stones is very good; you wouldn't need all of them, but I'd take any. Colour me a fully paid up Shapton fanboy from hereon in.
SG500, SP1k, SG1k, SP1.5k. Mild steel clad Shirogami 2 Kiridashi for scratch patterns / polish, and an Aogami 2 blade for sharpening. I did try sharpening cheap stainless too, and my impressions of the stones was pretty much the same.
---
I'm sure I don't need to explain to anyone here what an SG500 polish looks like - you've all got one. And if you don't then you want to take a long, hard look at yourself in the mirror, and ask if you are really, truly happy with your life choices so far.
The SP1k is considerably finer, this isn't an 'either or' situation, it's probably up at around 800 level imo. Both are relatively consistent in terms of not having different grit scratches within the same stone. There's more contrast in the SP.
The SG1k surprised me quite a lot (for reasons I'll explain later). This is finer again, much more integrated and blended. Little contrast.
And the SP1.5k, which has more contrast than the above, but a more noticeable scratch pattern. There's something about this that I quite like.
Would I choose any of them as a polishing stone over a nice soaker at the same level? Probably not. I might be tempted by the SP1.5k over some of the competition, and frankly the SG500 is so versatile that it’s a bit of a no-brainer for anything.
Onto the pointier end of stuff though...
---
As I may have hinted earlier - the SG500 is just an awesome stone. If you look at the rate it abrades compared to the level it finishes, then it probably has the largest range of any synth I've used, with the possible exception of the Medium India. Not desperately easy to deburr on.
The paper towel cut from the SP1K is much cleaner, it finishes a good bit higher than the SG500, and it's just a cleaner edge all round. This stone is seriously, seriously impressive for sharpening.
Now through all of this the thing that surprised me most was the SG1K. Possibly because I hadn't used one in a while, but nevertheless - this stone is fast af. I wasn't actually clocking much difference in speed, or grit, between the Pro and the Glass, they are both very pacey and probably finish below 1k. The glass was very difficult for me to deburr well on though, that's why this cut is so ragged. Quite why the polishes were so different I've no idea.
And last but not least, I shall also have to revise my opinion on the SP1.5K. Little bit of a soak and this is actually a really nice stone. This edge is the only one of the four where I wouldn't necessarily go to another stone after. It's good to go as is.
---
So there are my hastily cobbled together thoughts about Shapton mid grits.
I was more than a little bit impressed tbh. Every one of these stones is very good; you wouldn't need all of them, but I'd take any. Colour me a fully paid up Shapton fanboy from hereon in.
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Stockman
Well-Known Member
A dead fridge is an old Bushy trick - keeps out the rats and mice, white ants, redback spiders and the predatory snakes that hunt the rats.
I'd prefer to be bitten by the toothy edge from an SP1000 than some of my shed visitors.
Nice work #Cotedupy on the side by side comparisons, might have to add a SG500 to "the fridge". Always looking for more speed, the wife has this amazing talent to turn a razor sharp Nakiri into a Japanese hand saw.
SP1000 - SP2000 progression is my go to for 90% of the knifes I sharpen that havent been given the wife's special treatment.
New or not, this kind of efficacy and convenience is always gonna be a winner. And I'm with you - the SP1K to finer natural jump is a very, very good one.
I've been using BBW (which I notice you cleverly have got too) and it's a completely foolproof double act.
Like
So I decided to do a little research on the the fact that the SP1000 always is referred to as being similar to a 700-800 grit.
So my first thought was to find out what micron range a JIS1000 grit stone should have. Led me to this page on Gritomatic which has a good analysis of the different standards.
Down in the middle of the page, where they talk about the JIS standard, is this chart:
Now as far as I've seen, there is no micron rating on the Shapton Pro 1000, but let's assume it's the same as (or close to) the Shapton Glass 1000, which is rated at 14.7u. Looking at the chart, we can see that based on that rating that the SG1K (and likely therefor the SP1K) are close to a JIS800 stone.
So some "hard"* facts that the Shapton 1000 does indeed run coarser than other JIS1000 stones.
* - I'll admit it didn't verify Gritomatic's info on the JIS standard. It seems good enough, confirms what we know so I'm going to let my confirmation bias trust their chart.
So my first thought was to find out what micron range a JIS1000 grit stone should have. Led me to this page on Gritomatic which has a good analysis of the different standards.
Down in the middle of the page, where they talk about the JIS standard, is this chart:
Now as far as I've seen, there is no micron rating on the Shapton Pro 1000, but let's assume it's the same as (or close to) the Shapton Glass 1000, which is rated at 14.7u. Looking at the chart, we can see that based on that rating that the SG1K (and likely therefor the SP1K) are close to a JIS800 stone.
So some "hard"* facts that the Shapton 1000 does indeed run coarser than other JIS1000 stones.
* - I'll admit it didn't verify Gritomatic's info on the JIS standard. It seems good enough, confirms what we know so I'm going to let my confirmation bias trust their chart.
Choppin
Senior Member
Interesting... I'm checking the other Shapton Glass stones and according to this chart they all should be a bit coarser than than the indicated grit. The 500 for instance is 29.4 micron, so it should be closer to 400 grit. But people say it's more like 600, so now I'm confused? lolSo I decided to do a little research on the the fact that the SP1000 always is referred to as being similar to a 700-800 grit.
So my first thought was to find out what micron range a JIS1000 grit stone should have. Led me to this page on Gritomatic which has a good analysis of the different standards.
Down in the middle of the page, where they talk about the JIS standard, is this chart:
Now as far as I've seen, there is no micron rating on the Shapton Pro 1000, but let's assume it's the same as (or close to) the Shapton Glass 1000, which is rated at 14.7u. Looking at the chart, we can see that based on that rating that the SG1K (and likely therefor the SP1K) are close to a JIS800 stone.
So some "hard"* facts that the Shapton 1000 does indeed run coarser than other JIS1000 stones.
* - I'll admit it didn't verify Gritomatic's info on the JIS standard. It seems good enough, confirms what we know so I'm going to let my confirmation bias trust their chart.
No idea, my SG500 is my lone stone in that range so I have nothing to compare it to.
I do know my Naniwa Diamond 3K feels finer than my SG3K, which is confirmed by this chart.
All stones should be rated in micron. Grits are too varied and subjective.
@HumbleHomeCook maybe average micron seeing as the abrasives are not always homogenous? Curious if more homogenous = tighter scratch pattern and less contrast (dependent on hardness of abrasive)? Thinking about those SG vs. SP patterns!
