Shibata Kotestu - 210 vs 240, stock times , minor rocking

[fourmations]

hi all

fallen for the r2 Shibata Koutestu gyuto and have upped my budget to suit, (was max €200)
scoured all the info i can find and even made templates in work (attached) how nerdy is that!!
but I still have a few questions if you please, ( i have realized that SS will suit me better as a daily driver as i'm known
to let dirty knives sit around while i tend to other things in my cooking....i still want a carbon though ..see point below)

1: I suppose i'm the only one who can answer this but i cant afford to buy both and return one..
the 210 vs 240 question!...the 240 feels a bit big and unwieldy but i prefer the taller blade
its my first J knife but not the last no doubt, someone commented on my "blade length" thread
that kind of resonated with me, he simply said "210 stainless for quick jobs, 240 carbon for bigger jobs"
this makes sense as the SS has the lack of maintenance so for a quick bit of cutting it makes sense, a 240 carbon
would come out for longer jobs/prep, that would scratch my carbon itch

2: the 240 is out of stock everywhere in Europe it seems, im not getting into US/UK customs
I suppose the fact that its out of stock and the 210 is available speaks voulmes,
i asked Cleancut when they expect the 240 in that they dont know and say they never know,
i dont want to wait weeks and months, im excited for my first J knife, i dont suppose anyone has noticed how often they are restocked?

3: its well known that its not a rocker and i can live with that, i do push and pulls and really like the idea of efficient chopping but ive been noticing that i do rock a little for mincing and herbs etc, ive had a play with my templates and it seems can get a good 20-30mm clearance off the board at the back of the blade without the tip digging into the board
but my template is 3mm thick so its not realistic in that sense, any thoughts? is there a bit of clearance in real life?

4: regarding the attached photo.... that global is my "chefs knife" its 180mm on the blade and i'm very used to it
but theres an important point here, i pinch the global on the skinny "neck" before the blade starts, the handle graduates into the blade so its very comfy and pretty much made for that, when i pinch the 210 Shib on the blade its the same length as the Global from pinch to tip (granted the blade is shorter) its also worth noting that the Global is as thin as the Shib on the spine and about 40g heavier that the 210 and the same weight as the 240 so its not a lump of a knife (photo)

I know everyone is different but the Kotestu gets such a good rep and looks so badass (looks matter, i won't fall in love with a knife i find ugly (takamura R2 yo red handle for example) I have no point of reference as I have never had a J knife and there are no B&M shops in ireland so its a case of getting something and having a feel then I can tune my preferences off that experience (e.g, i'd prefer more curve, shorter handle, deeper choil etc etc whatever the case my be)
the depth of blade at the k tip also give me confidence when doing fine stuff at the tip

any tips / advice welcome

many thanks

 

[Simply]

My .02

The k-tip is useful for more delicate work (garlic, shallots, small onion, etc) and best suited for a 210. So, if you’re a fan of the k-tip go for the 210. Size is completely preference unless you’re routinely prepping large produce, it looks like you have plenty of board for either. Starting out I think a 210 k tip with the gradual curve, then a 240 with a slightly flatter belly and traditional gyuto profile would be an awesome spot to start discovering preferences. Other notes; 240s are honestly not some unwieldily monster, in the 160-220g range they can still feel very nimble. Most carbon blades aren’t as rust prone as you’d imagine, a simple rinse/wipe and dry cloth will be perfectly fine if you’re setting it down.

Be sure to check out tetogi and Karasu as well for EU vendors.

 

[Ocicat]

I have the 210 and it's a great knife. One of my first Japanese blades and the only one from that time still in regular rotation. In this case I'd recommend the 210 over the 240 - not because the 240 is too much knife, but I agree with Simply that the k-tip works better on the 210. With such a flat profile, you don't really get that much more out of the longer blade. Sure, the longer cutting edge can be nice, but there's not a lot more versatility like you might get out of some other 240s. The 210 feels great in-hand and excels at push and pull cuts and even some chopping. Definitely recommended.

Since you're in Ireland this may not be helpful, but you could also look at the Shibata Kashima. The problems are it's only sold at one US store and it's currently out of stock. Also I think links to that store are not allowed on KKF, for reasons I don't totally understand. But if you Google "Shibata Kashima R-2 240" you can find it. It's made with a traditional french profile, similar to the Masamoto KS, but in SG2/R2 steel and with a thin Shibata grind.

 

[TheDza]

I believe you can also contact Shibata directly and order from him

 

[nipsy]

Both are in stock at knife gallery, 甲鉄~koutetsu~ - 伝統の打刃物をお届けする「ナイフ・ギャラリー」
you would have to pay import etc, but probably still cheaper than UK suppliers.

Use the contact form, the lady there can speak English and is super helpful.

It's shibatas showroom.

I have the battleship, it's superb

 

[Heckel7302]

Can also check with Shibata’s shop directly to see if they have any.

[email protected]

 

[Heckel7302]

Personally, I think the bunka is the best of the Kotetsu line. It has a generous height ~52mm, very neutral balance for a 180 laser. The longer shorter k tips just look weird to me.

 

[Heckel7302]

If you do want the 240, here's one in case you didn't see it

https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/240mm-shibata-koutetsu-gyuto.67629/

 

[Jovidah]

I have the 210 and it's a great knife. One of my first Japanese blades and the only one from that time still in regular rotation. In this case I'd recommend the 210 over the 240 - not because the 240 is too much knife, but I agree with Simply that the k-tip works better on the 210. With such a flat profile, you don't really get that much more out of the longer blade. Sure, the longer cutting edge can be nice, but there's not a lot more versatility like you might get out of some other 240s. The 210 feels great in-hand and excels at push and pull cuts and even some chopping. Definitely recommended.

Since you're in Ireland this may not be helpful, but you could also look at the Shibata Kashima. The problems are it's only sold at one US store and it's currently out of stock. Also I think links to that store are not allowed on KKF, for reasons I don't totally understand. But if you Google "Shibata Kashima R-2 240" you can find it. It's made with a traditional french profile, similar to the Masamoto KS, but in SG2/R2 steel and with a thin Shibata grind.

View attachment 286656

I'm fairly certain that Shibata Kashima is a CKTG exclusive. Which is really a shame... since buying from the US from the EU isn't really financially attractive. An R-2 KS sounds like a great thing.

 

[Stevem627]

The Shibata 210 is in stock at Cleancut, and will be a great knife if you have good cutting habits. A quick wipe off (which you should always do with any knife) will suffice until you have time to wash it thoroughly.

I’d recommend a 210 over a 240 for your first choice.

Availability is always a problem with all nice knives.

https://www.cleancut.eu/butik/knifetype/gyuto/shibata_gyuto-detail

 

[fourmations]

The Shibata 210 is in stock at Cleancut, and will be a great knife if you have good cutting habits. A quick wipe off (which you should always do with any knife) will suffice until you have time to wash it thoroughly.

I’d recommend a 210 over a 240 for your first choice.

Availability is always a problem with all nice knives.

https://www.cleancut.eu/butik/knifetype/gyuto/shibata_gyuto-detail

Cheers it's in and out of the basket for the last two days! Waiting for final decision, Lol

 

[fourmations]

If you do want the 240, here's one in case you didn't see it

https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/240mm-shibata-koutetsu-gyuto.67629/

Yeah saw that but I'd like the option of returning if it's not all I hoped for, I'm very much leaning at the 210 now based on the advice here, the "in stock" element is helping,!! thanks

 

[fourmations]

Personally, I think the bunka is the best of the Kotetsu line. It has a generous height ~52mm, very neutral balance for a 180 laser. The longer shorter k tips just look weird to me.

Fair enough, the bunka looks the biz and from my (intense) Shibata research it's regarded as one of the best bunkas out there for the price, it may well find a place in my kitchen if I love the gyuto, it could even replace the gyuto if I get a nice 240, time will tell, thanks

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

Got stones?

 

[fourmations]

Got stones?

I have a SP1000 and a ceramic honing rod, that's it...I committed to not going stone mad as I learn, the old adage that if you can't get a good edge on a SP1k spoke to me, more stones is a distraction as a novice... I had concerns about the R2 but I have been assured that I'll get an edge on a SP1k with the R2, agreed? Cheers

 

[fourmations]

I have a SP1000 and a ceramic honing rod, that's it...I committed to not going stone mad as I learn, the old adage that if you can't get a good edge on a SP1k spoke to me, more stones is a distraction as a novice... I had concerns about the R2 but I have been assured that I'll get an edge on a SP1k with the R2, I believe it won't be as quick as a carbon would be but very do-able...solid thinking? Cheers

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

I have a SP1000 and a ceramic honing rod, that's it...I committed to not going stone mad as I learn, the old adage that if you can't get a good edge on a SP1k spoke to me, more stones is a distraction as a novice... I had concerns about the R2 but I have been assured that I'll get an edge on a SP1k with the R2, agreed? Cheers

I agree a 1k should work fine with SG2.

 

[fourmations]

I agree a 1k should work fine with SG2.

Excellent! I was fearing a "not a hope, you need a 2k and a 6k as well" type response thanks

 

[fourmations]

I believe you can also contact Shibata directly and order from him

Love the thumb and username!! "wu tang clan ain't nuthin to f wit"!

 

[M1k3]

Excellent! I was fearing a "not a hope, you need a 2k and a 6k as well" type response thanks

Well....

 

[fourmations]

Well....

I daren't ask.......I've ordered it just there! I'm sure I'll love it but we'll see.. I am a novice sharpener but going ok on the SP1k, I won't do anything rash on the new knife though! Cheers

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

I daren't ask.......I've ordered it just there! I'm sure I'll love it but we'll see.. I am a novice sharpener but going ok on the SP1k, I won't do anything rash on the new knife though! Cheers

Congrats and enjoy the journey.

 

[henkle]

The problem with the knife of your dreams is that it makes you wonder what other dreams are out there.

 

[J_Wisdom]

I guess I'm late since you already ordered, but I bought the 240 gyuto Kotetsu SG2 last December on a whim. I love it! Likewise, I wanted the 210, but it was out of stock, so I went 240. Anyway, I ordered in the US from Chubo, and it was shipped via FedEx Air from Japan within a couple of days. Back to the knife that has become my favorite to use. I thought the 240 might be too big and when it arrived, I thought I made a mistake. But, within a short amount of time, it became my most used knife. It cuts great, and is easy to sharpen with my 3k Shapton Glass. The 3k is the only stone I've used on it, and it seems perfect for it. I'm a huge lover of the k-tip and I have a couple other knives with that tip. Funny, I didn't think it would become my go-to knife, but it is. You can cut thin slices using the tip on half and onion without the slices falling to the side or sticking to the knife. Let us know what you think when you get it.

 

[nipsy]

The problem with the knife of your dreams is that it makes you wonder what other dreams are out there.

Can't have to many dreams

 

[fourmations]

Arriving tomorrow! A few glasses of red on board and I'm excited as a child on Christmas morning!! Lol, fingers crossed it's all I hoped for for my first J knife dabble! Cheers

 

[Heckel7302]

Arriving tomorrow! A few glasses of red on board and I'm excited as a child on Christmas morning!! Lol, fingers crossed it's all I hoped for for my first J knife dabble! Cheers

You won’t be disappointed. Shibata was my second fancy knife. It was a weak in the knees experience.

 

[fourmations]

Here goes!! Love the tongue in cheek Cleancut plasters you get, very funny, thanks to all you guys for your help on this thread and my others! Cheers

 

[fourmations]

So, I've heard I should oil the handle straight away as they come pretty dry...true? ( I wouldn't know any better, first wa handle) also, I know it won't need to see a stone but a strop now and then? I don't own a strip or compound, what should I get? Budget friendly for now please? No issue using denim or another diy method but I haven't a clue about compound, thanks

 

[Stevem627]

If you need a strop, newspaper is great…or a leather belt, and denim works fine. No real requirement for compound.

I would oil the handle with some mineral oil asap.