Shig alert

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Odd post.. i think its been mentioned prior but shigs (like anything) are worth every penny of what someone is willing to pay.. i think baseball cards are worth zero.. others pay millions for them. Different strokes
 
Timthebeaver said:
Fixed your post.
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I believe the problem to be two-fold...cost had gone up dramatically and I don't believe the newer ones have as sweet a geometry as earlier models...jmo. I personally would make the exact same argument with Kato.
 
chinacats said:
I believe the problem to be two-fold...cost had gone up dramatically and I don't believe the newer ones have as sweet a geometry as earlier models...jmo. I personally would make the exact same argument with Kato.
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The cost hasn't gone up by that much .. it's the reseller and profits from those selling on the secondary market that has raised dramatically (it's basically a bubble. too many people have personal interest in shig/kato to admit there's a problem)

most of the shigs/katos weren't ordered yesterday.. the prices direct from the makers were from 1+ years ago when prices were still relatively low
 
Last Shig I bought new was a kasumi 240 for ~440...I felt it was overpriced. What does a new one cost nowadays?
 
I own 2 shigs.. one bought like 6 years ago.. probably could get 5 times what i paid for it now..so thats what its worth.. if interest fades and nobody wants shigs anymore and price goes down to $50.. then it's worth $50. Shrug.. its worth whatever a buyer is willing to pay. Opinions on "over valued" or not are meaningless
 
ynot1985 said:
depends on where you buy it from... Japan or outside of Japan or BST/2nd market.. 3 different prices
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I bought that one from Maxim...

I certainly understand supply and demand but nonetheless these are overvalued as far as performance/quality period.

As to people selling them here for more than they paid, **** those people...it's a big part of the reason people lose interest in hanging out around here...jmo.
 
ynot1985 said:
The cost hasn't gone up by that much .. it's the reseller and profits from those selling on the secondary market that has raised dramatically (it's basically a bubble. too many people have personal interest in shig/kato to admit there's a problem)

most of the shigs/katos weren't ordered yesterday.. the prices direct from the makers were from 1+ years ago when prices were still relatively low
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I am getting a 240 Kitaeji Yo-Gyuto this week it was less than $1200US including saya & kiri box, it's more than I was quoted 5 years ago when I ordered it, but not substantially more.
 
Von blewitt said:
I am getting a 240 Kitaeji Yo-Gyuto this week it was less than $1200US including saya & kiri box, it's more than I was quoted 5 years ago when I ordered it, but not substantially more.
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ah.. so you got the yo 240.. the price the seller paid was probably the price the shig maker quote him 5 years ago

I got the other half of your shipment..

I know for a fact that that he gives us special prices as compared to all the other ones he has sold
 
Fuxxking agree with you dude, fxxck those people!


chinacats said:
I bought that one from Maxim...

I certainly understand supply and demand but nonetheless these are overvalued as far as performance/quality period.

As to people selling them here for more than they paid, **** those people...it's a big part of the reason people lose interest in hanging out around here...jmo.
Click to expand...
 
chinacats said:
I bought that one from Maxim...

I certainly understand supply and demand but nonetheless these are overvalued as far as performance/quality period.

As to people selling them here for more than they paid, **** those people...it's a big part of the reason people lose interest in hanging out around here...jmo.
Click to expand...
+1

This forum is dying because of people making rediculous profits to unknowledgable folks...

Profits I have no issue with, profiteering like crazy... Plain stupid...

I love this forum. I hate the profiteers...

I'm drunk... so sue me.
 
Good to see that people are speaking up and getting angry. I really love shigs, my first "real" japanese knife was a 150mm ku petty, still have it. But, the prices are destroying my interest in them. The same thing happened with KD's. They were great knives and rare, but they still shouldn't go for anywhere near the prices they go for.
 
Shigs have always been well finished, solid performers, but the (relatively recent) madness is just a bunch of neophytes driving and stoking the fires of a hype train. Add in the profiteering and dare I say it it's becoming tiring around here. Certainly doesn't do the general vibe on the forums any favours either.
 
Ive replied above but I'll try again. If you use cars as an analogy.. ferrari has actually cut production while experiencing growth in Demand. This is an explicit effort to boost price and resale exclusivity.. now if you compare it to the competitors in terms of performance ferraris are over priced because neophyte idiots just "want" a ferrari. Cheaper cars have the same or better performance on every single measurable metric. The point is it Doesnt Matter. People are willing to pay the forced inflated value because they WANT a Ferrari...so its worth what perople are buying it for. Period.. you can say shigs are not worth their current price but reality says different.. the price could plummet as flavor if the month changes.. then they are still worth whatever people are willing to pay
 
People can do whatever they want. It doesn't make Shigs unbeatable performers or the constant fawning over them any less dull.
 
I've sold Shigs for the same price I bought them for. I've sold Shigs for more than I bought them for. And I've sold Shigs for less than I bought them for.

In all 3 of those scenarios, someone was willing to make the deal to take it home.

It is an individual's choice to buy, and that is the end of that as far as I'm concerned.

I've "lost" way more $$ on Shigs (and knives in general) than has ever been "made" from them. Im sure most, if not all, of us whom have seen this hobby morph into an obsession have invested a fair bit of coin into our collections. What doesn't make sense is why people publicly lament over market bubbles or price gouging (however you want to see it) if the market has buyers at that price.

Hell, a Kramer was a reasonably affordable and "buy-able" high-end knife in the 90's. Now you need a second mortgage or a rich relative to die before you can get one. That is IF you can even find one for sale.

Also, if you look at BST threads where items are obviously overpriced or marked up, those items tend not to sell.

As an example, without specifying the seller or item, there is a gyuto on BST RIGHT NOW that I sold earlier this year. It is in the same condition as when I sold it. Yet the seller wants a LOT MORE than it sold it for (to the tune of 50% more...it hasn't sold yet as I type this). Could some people think thats messed up? Yes. Do I care? No. Because I'm not going to buy it.

The market speaks for itself.

Yes, Shigs aren't the best knives in the world. Yes, they are overpriced. Yes, some people choose to behave like profiteers.

Clearly people are upset, as some may feel this is f**ked up - but really, should people publicly whine and complain about it? Whats the use of doing so?


(IMHO - its Shig envy. This behavior by resellers makes an already elusive knife even harder to acquire by inflating prices. Jealousy fuels fires. Haters gonna hate.)
 
And none of the "complaint" posts in this thread has ANYTHING to do with alerting people to Shigs.

So can ya'll cut it out? Or start a new thread so the rest of us don't have to read about how upset you are?

TIA.
 
pete84 said:
And none of the "complaint" posts in this thread has ANYTHING to do with alerting people to Shigs.

So can ya'll cut it out? Or start a new thread so the rest of us don't have to read about how upset you are?

TIA.
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Right on Pete! I for one, am tired of hearing this over and over and over!
 
For anyone that wants a shig but is also frustrated with the scarcity I would suggest talking with Heiji. I was able to order the custom weight, height, blade road height, custom profile with friction fit saya for almost half as much as a rare 240mm shig gyuto on bst would cost. Same steel as shigafusa.

 
chinacats said:
Then don't listen...or respond.

If you want to sell your knives for a big profit please list them on ebay. As to Shig envy, lmfao.
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Jim, we've interacted at times over the years and I've bought knives/stones from you in the past and you have always been a gentleman. Seeing how aggravated/upset you are about this topic shows how deeply you care about this community and hobby and your desire to defend a certain "ethic" when it comes to sales here in the BST secondary market. It was an unspoken ethic that went for years and years around here and only recently has it started... degrading. For a long time, ever since I joined, it was a taboo to mark up a knife on BST higher than what it was bought for. Even if that very knife could easily sell for more than listed.

If you are upset or find yourself at odds with the recent goings-on regarding secondary sales of certain knives by certain makers, that is understandable and respectable. I can see how the actions of those who "gouge" prices or have the sole intent to garner a quick profit, may be viewed as unsavory. By no means am I a fan of said behavior, as it undermines the community spirit of sharing and caring that makes KKF so great.

However, that doesn't change the basic fact that purchasing choices of non-essential items (like luxury kitchen knives) are personal decisions made by a buyer when appraising a particular item that is for sale at a given price. Now, if we were talking about drinking water after a natural disaster (like in Houston or Miami), or medicine for the sick and needy (Martin Shkreli) - then yes, that type of behavior is truly deplorable and disgusting.

But if some wealthy jackass buys a car or a painting or a property for $500,000 and a while later it appraises for $750,000 and someone decides they will buy it for that price - what right does anyone outside the transaction itself have to protest the dealings of two competent and willing individuals making a private transaction? What difference does it make where those individuals list, meet or make contact? Does KKF have a stipulation that all BST sales must follow the unspoken code of conduct of sharing and caring?

If I buy a condo for $200,000 in a Los Angeles suburb and a few years later the real estate market heats up and someone offers me $300,000 - does that mean its wrong for me to sell the condo at the price the buyer is willing to pay? Because if that is the case, there are a lot of innocent wrongdoers out there in the world.

Your response to Chicagohawkie is quite cheeky and doesn't take into consideration that this is the "Shig alert" thread, not the "BST Complaint Dept." or "F**k Shig Price Gouging/Profiteers" thread.

Its funny that quite a few of the complainants in this thread against the recent price "bubble" also take the effort to not only degrade the actions of the unsavory sellers, but to also criticize Shigefusa knives themselves (i.e. not the best knife in the world, the old ones were better than the new, too expensive, nothing but hype, etc etc). Which led me to my opinion that a lot of the contempt is fueled by Shig envy, not just the rejection of unsavory sales practices in BST.

Also, my opinion is just that - my opinion. You may find it laughable or ridiculous or stupid or whatever, but your degrading my opinion as laughable without any reason why you think so - that takes it from a discussion/argument to an insult.
 
labor of love said:
For anyone that wants a shig but is also frustrated with the scarcity I would suggest talking with Heiji. I was able to order the custom weight, height, blade road height, custom profile with friction fit saya for almost half as much as a rare 240mm shig gyuto on bst would cost. Same steel as shigafusa.

Click to expand...

Semi-off topic, but DAMMMM that's HOT. Thanks for sharing... :doublethumbsup:

I still want a yo handled Shig eventually tho. :)
 
pete84 said:
Jim, we've interacted at times over the years and I've bought knives/stones from you in the past and you have always been a gentleman. Seeing how aggravated/upset you are about this topic shows how deeply you care about this community and hobby and your desire to defend a certain "ethic" when it comes to sales here in the BST secondary market. It was an unspoken ethic that went for years and years around here and only recently has it started... degrading. For a long time, ever since I joined, it was a taboo to mark up a knife on BST higher than what it was bought for. Even if that very knife could easily sell for more than listed.

If you are upset or find yourself at odds with the recent goings-on regarding secondary sales of certain knives by certain makers, that is understandable and respectable. I can see how the actions of those who "gouge" prices or have the sole intent to garner a quick profit, may be viewed as unsavory. By no means am I a fan of said behavior, as it undermines the community spirit of sharing and caring that makes KKF so great.

However, that doesn't change the basic fact that purchasing choices of non-essential items (like luxury kitchen knives) are personal decisions made by a buyer when appraising a particular item that is for sale at a given price. Now, if we were talking about drinking water after a natural disaster (like in Houston or Miami), or medicine for the sick and needy (Martin Shkreli) - then yes, that type of behavior is truly deplorable and disgusting.

But if some wealthy jackass buys a car or a painting or a property for $500,000 and a while later it appraises for $750,000 and someone decides they will buy it for that price - what right does anyone outside the transaction itself have to protest the dealings of two competent and willing individuals making a private transaction? What difference does it make where those individuals list, meet or make contact? Does KKF have a stipulation that all BST sales must follow the unspoken code of conduct of sharing and caring?

If I buy a condo for $200,000 in a Los Angeles suburb and a few years later the real estate market heats up and someone offers me $300,000 - does that mean its wrong for me to sell the condo at the price the buyer is willing to pay? Because if that is the case, there are a lot of innocent wrongdoers out there in the world.

Your response to Chicagohawkie is quite cheeky and doesn't take into consideration that this is the "Shig alert" thread, not the "BST Complaint Dept." or "F**k Shig Price Gouging/Profiteers" thread.

Its funny that quite a few of the complainants in this thread against the recent price "bubble" also take the effort to not only degrade the actions of the unsavory sellers, but to also criticize Shigefusa knives themselves (i.e. not the best knife in the world, the old ones were better than the new, too expensive, nothing but hype, etc etc). Which led me to my opinion that a lot of the contempt is fueled by Shig envy, not just the rejection of unsavory sales practices in BST.

Also, my opinion is just that - my opinion. You may find it laughable or ridiculous or stupid or whatever, but your degrading my opinion as laughable without any reason why you think so - that takes it from a discussion/argument to an insult.
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Pete, I have total respect for you and nothing was meant personally...not even my comment to Chicagohawkie;)

My only dispute with what you're saying is that the comparison of real estate on the 'open market' is an apples to oranges comparison to a community of like minded individuals. Other than that I'd just say fair enough to everything else you've said...as to my comments about the quality of the knives themselves, I'm with Craig, I'd personally prefer Heiji as you can 'customize' vs the randomness of Shigs which I truly enjoyed more when they were more substantial--just my experience/opinion.

My comments truly are more directly related to the community aspect vs Shig themselves. They're fine knives but just not my cup of tea even as much as I'd truly like them to be:)

Last comment from me in this thread in this thread for a bit...

Cheers
 
labor of love said:
For anyone that wants a shig but is also frustrated with the scarcity I would suggest talking with Heiji. I was able to order the custom weight, height, blade road height, custom profile with friction fit saya for almost half as much as a rare 240mm shig gyuto on bst would cost. Same steel as shigafusa.

Click to expand...

looks wonderful, choil shots? maybe we need to open a heiji thread since its not shig and dont belong in here.
 
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