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First time ever? Time is circular my friend.
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Is this the first time ever that someone posted a knife to BST, and then afterwards to this thread? :)

https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/marko-to-marko.46224/
 
You don't know what you're missing. Now they do live up to the hype.
I'll get my hands on one some time soon. I handled my first burnt handle (oak) recently and am really impressed by it, so I'm looking forward to the chestnut.
 
I thought I'd do this after all. I would have liked to stumble upon such raw data and appreciation about the next knives, so this hoping someone else might find useful information here.

Zwilling - Diplôme Chef 8" / 200 mm (depending on your store, or even your country when visiting Zwilling's official store, it is sometimes *falsely* advertised as 210 mm)
210 / 200 / 46 / <2 / <1 / -25 / 199g
https://www.cookstore.ca/ 135$ CAD (price matched during BF - usually 170 - 210$ CAD as for the Miyabi 400 version)

Blade length / Edge length / Height / Thickness (heel) / Thickness (tip) / Balance (Chin = 0) / Weight
In mm; all measures are first hand; balance (also in mm) is either forward the blade (+) or backward to the handle (-) where 0 was arbitrarily positioned to the chin as I find it to be a point anyone can easily relate to from the knives they have experience with - for example when comparing traditional Western handles vs. traditional Japanese handles if one never experienced the former or the latter.

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ZCHOIL.JPG
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The Zwilling is an older buy but I had to be thorough; more to come.

I've done a LOT of prep with it. I'd fairly say it has seen over 80 hours of use - of REAL use, not idling. It has done preps for at least 5 days a week since three months - often more than once in a day, and some of the preps quite involving. It has seen everything from smashing garlic and cross chop it to finely mincing onions, tap-chopping mushrooms insanely thin, tap-chopping carrots, celery, push cutting big potatoes, tip dicing tomatoes and tip slicing celery or half-carrots horizontally, push slicing leeks, slicing proteins like raw bacon, notwithstanding cutting open plastic packages and cutting through a pound of butter with the paper still on. It still cuts brilliantly, glides through any piece of newspaper/print paper/magazine/thick recycled cardboard paper, never got even close to a rod or stone. It has done so most often on bamboo boards!!

It is an amazing knife as they come out of the box : perfect F&F, very sharp grind, extremely performing (although nothing truly laser), good all-rounder (tip feels springy/brittle in rock chopping, so if one uses that a lot it may feel awkward but will see through and has a profile fit to it) and excellent edge retention. Profile is so-so; on the shorter side of 8 inches knives, and not much of a flat area to work with.

It is the one performer to beat in my quite modest experience of knives; but still I've cut a lot of stuff compared to the amount of good knives I've used, and this one cuts the best not just overall or all-rounder, but one of the best experience I think a knife can provide OOTB. It is also a beautiful piece.

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Packaging is ordinary, but nice and sober; it's a handle heavy knife, but I cannot see it as a fault when I handle it myself, although using a more evenly balanced knife or even a forward knife does feel better, and it's a shame the Diplôme doesn't have the balance quite right. My long hands love the handle, but it makes for the flaw of this knife - it is a HUGE thing. Perhaps better luck with the Miyabi 400. Food sticking is the worst case scenario, sadly.

Pro: does anything with gusto, although not a rock-chopping workhouse

Meh: there is almost more metal in the full tang and rivets than for the blade itself

Con: outside of a ridiculous deal/price matching, this knife/the Miyabis in general have rude competition in their price range. Food sticks like the skunk to the cat in the cartoons... :p

Bottom word: a truly amazing performer, although handle-heavy, usually pricey, and on the shorter side of 8 inches knives where the profile does not offer much of a sufficiently flat real estate to truly shine like it could. On the long term, the performance comes mostly from a very proficient grind, but there's frighteningly little metal there to be sharpened through years of use, especially with the somewhat low profile. The final price, however, made it quite perfect to my standards.

Performance (OOTB) : 4.5/5
Experience : 4.5/5
F&F : 4.5/5
Value : 2.5/5 (because it has so much competition, if nothing else from it's own brother Miyabi which could theoretically offer a better balance, because the price was right only quite conditionally and still under some heavy competition depending on the market, and because it has big flaws that couldn't be counted against performance or my highly favorable experience or pampered factory finish, but are still there)

Overall : 8/10
 
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Victorinox Rosewood Chef 10" / 250 mm (as per Victorinox - 25 cm)
255 / 255 / 54 / 2 / <1 / +40 / 196 g
https://www.paulsfinest.com/ 60$ CAD


Blade length / Edge length / Height / Thickness (heel) / Thickness (tip) / Balance (Chin = 0) / Weight
In mm; all measures are first hand; balance (also in mm) is either forward the blade (+) or backward to the handle (-) where 0 was arbitrarily positioned to the chin as I find it to be a point anyone can easily relate to from the knives they have experience with - for example when comparing traditional Western handles vs. traditional Japanese handles if one never experienced the former or the latter.

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VBAL.jpg
VCHOIL.jpg
VSPINE.jpg


And then since Victorinox always get correct reviews, but you seldom get to see how it cuts... these are OOTB results.
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VLEEK2.jpg

Leek : tip work then rock chopped to various thickness. Smooth operation.

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VTOM2.jpg

Tomato push cut with minimal juice involvement.

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Diced with tip slicing motion, not cored, skin up - a difficult cut, and the less there was of a tomato, the more the Victorinox struggled to make it. I kept the core in place to emphasize if it would cut or crush. Pretty nice results altogether, but you can see the cuts it struggled to make as the skin on some of the dices shows dents. However, if cored then flipped flesh first the Victorinox will correctly tip slice tomatoes until oblivion - with some honing on the smooth rod from time to time obviously, but very little sharpening for that matter. YMMV depending on how you use it. I'm just a home kitchen.

As with most Victorinox I've tried, the feeling is lacking a bit when cutting. It isn't nowhere near unnerving or limiting, but they're the kind of knives you can easily find yourself applying force even when not needed : they tend to cut better than they feel.

Pro: excellent all-rounder

Meh: doesn't excel at anything precisely

Con: lacks feeling

Bottom word: a good knife that will compliment your actual knife skills, but probably won't have you improve them much or discover new ones. It is a "comfort zone" knife, especially for rock chopping, and while useful and friendly it will never shine or amaze you. I was still positively surprised at how it handles tip work despite size and heft : more nimble than it appears, I can also machine gun tap chop mushrooms pretty thin with it, or do horizontal slices with a smallish shallot. For the price, it's a knife one should probably buy over (m)any other cheap stamped knife, and one to consider seriously when on a budget with no sharpening skills. The Fibrox version is less expensive still for the same performance. In Canada, Paul's Finest tends to sell the Rosewood versions (any of these he carries) cheaper than anywhere else, and the Fibrox on par with other resources; he has excellent service and FAST shipping. The Rosewood handles have a tendency to present different F&F, especially concerning the actual fit (when examined closely, depending on the unit you get - probably the Fibrox will be more consistent there, and relatively dishwasher safe too). The retail packaging of both Fibrox and Rosewood is average at best. Caution: Paul's Finest sends them probably as you get them when mass ordered for professional use (only a branded plastic sleeve on), but I've had one unit of both series from elsewhere with the retail packaging (cheap flap boxes), and it's not much better. Probably Amazon or eBay would send them just like Paul so don't expect the retail packaging if not specified. You shouldn't care either way.

Performance (OOTB) : 4/5
Experience : 3.5/5
F&F : 3.5/5
Value : 4/5

Overall : 7.5/10

Note: the Value is my perception of CAD pricing. In other parts of the world, sometimes a Tojiro DP or alike will come much closer to a Victorinox Rosewood in price than it will ever do over here.
 
Victorinox Rosewood Chef 10" / 250 mm
[...]
Performance (OOTB) : 4/5
Experience : 3.5/5
F&F : 3.5/5
Value : 4/5

Overall : 7.5/10
If I had to cook with one of these for the rest of my life, I wouldn't be particularly unhappy. It's a decent knife at a very low price. Probably damn near impossible to find something better at that price (or a lower one). Added bonus: it can take some abuse without packing it in.
 
I love my Victorinox 6” Utility, so much performance for the $, that I did a handle conversation away from the cheapy Fibrox, laser thin blade, a bit flex but super sharp. Use it for delicate jobs like splitting open 1/4” thin sesame pancakes, where a thicker spine Gyuto tend to make a mess.
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Misono - Swedish Carbon Steel Gyuto 8.3" / 210 mm
220 / 220 / 44 / 2 / 1 / -5 / 166g
https://www.paulsfinest.com/ 165$ CAD

Blade length / Edge length / Height / Thickness (heel) / Thickness (tip) / Balance (Chin = 0) / Weight
In mm; all measures are first hand; balance (also in mm) is either forward the blade (+) or backward to the handle (-) where 0 was arbitrarily positioned to the chin as I find it to be a point anyone can easily relate to from the knives they have experience with - for example when comparing traditional Western handles vs. traditional Japanese handles if one never experienced the former or the latter.

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MBAL.JPG
MCHOIL.JPG
MSPINE.JPG


This knife changes perspective quite a bit - for someone mostly akin to western profiles: not an easy all-rounder like a Victorinox obviously, and not an overall performer like the Zwilling OOTB: but where the Misono shines, it does big time. It is not a rock-chopper, and with quite a flat profile it doesn't invite one to rock; at least not to me. It is not a tap-chopper; of course this came a bit as a deception because I like tap chopping, but not as a surprise, I was forewarned. It is not so much of a push cutter neither. What it does best is slice. Perhaps my Zwilling Diplôme can tip tap-chop mushrooms insanely thin, while the Misono tends to crush them a bit; but a change in technique and the Misono will slice them insanely thin where the Zwilling will tear/crush them; it will also provide more control in the cut than tap chopping, and ultimately I was able to go about it just as fast. If something, the Misono calls for a unified technique, and with the appropriate motion, it's the knife that gave me the most consistent laser feeling.

I don't want to say too much because my experience with this knife is still limited, 2-3 full hours of prep at most - but I used it to cut just about anything. I was in fact compelled to use it on everything I could get under my hand, because the more akin I grew to it the more I fell in love with its characteristics, but also because it helped create a patina crazy fast. While doing some potatoes and onions I was literally rubbing the blade with them. :p

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I found the blade to stain most easily with garlic, and to be reactive mostly to yellow onions; red onions not so much. The first time I minced a yellow one most of the mince turned a darker shade. Hence why I rubbed the blade with the tops and let sit for a while. A bit more patina and a couple of days later, a second yellow onion went fine. Of course I don't cut the widest variety of produce, but that's my experience with reactivity. I do not fight against the patina, but I do rub the blade with some oil after washing sometimes to make it set and prevent any turning into rust.

It is not a very tall knife, in fact the shortest of my collection, and being so straight this can just progressively worsen along the length, and as such it is quite easily overwhelmed. It doesn't stick so much than my oh so polished Zwilling, but just so : not its strong point neither. What made me very happy, however, although I guess one could also be unhappy about it, is that the Misono is much more of a 9 inches. If you look at it, the heel is right under the transition of the blade into the bolster, and either way, measured in a straight line from the tip, both edge and blade have 220 mm. I'm happy because I thought a 9 inches would be a perfect length for me, but the market really mostly offers 210 mm - 240 mm especially with J-knives. Well now I have an almost 9 incher - and it does handle great!!

The retail box is... well remarkably ugly, but while in no way of better quality than those of Victorinox or Zwilling, there's something about the typical J-Knife box that presents the knife like a precious item, more classy. It is more satisfying in a weird way. The black coloring of the engraving started to wear off after one wash or so. The handle has a strong chemical odor that wears off quite fast - but is severe enough that your hands will smell the first couple times you use it... yeah even if you wash it like ten times. The inside of the box, and the knife under its wrapping, presented with a lot of dust particle from the factory. Sorry for the somewhat hairy choil shot. :p

Pro : with it's slicing abilities, flat profile, and longer real estate than you bargained for, this is a focused knife that provides an exciting learning curve and a rewarding feeling.

Meh : the fading engraving is quite ordinary, and you're left asking yourself if some of it got into your food.

Con : is easily dwarfed by produce, and food release not being it's strong suit doesn't help.

Bottom line : if the mehs and cons don't deter you, and you were interested in this knife, go for it. It has strong competition in the market, but is not overly expensive neither, is of great overall quality, and very satisfying.

Performance : 4/5
Experience : 4/5
F&F : 4/5
Value : 3/5

Overall : 7.5/10
 
Misono 210 looks thick behind the edge, I am surprised to see that.

I wonder if the bigger 240 is better, I was thinking of getting a 240 & re-profile it down to 210, so I can have the dragon on my 210, & have it thinned while doing so.
 
Moritaka - Aogami #2 series Gyuto 9.5" / 240 mm (fitted with walnut rounded octagonal handle instead of the basic oval cherrywood offered on Moritaka's website)
255 / 240 / 50 / 3 / 1 / +40 / 166g
https://www.paulsfinest.com/ 200$ CAD


Blade length / Edge length / Height / Thickness (heel) / Thickness (tip) / Balance (Chin = 0) / Weight
In mm; all measures are first hand; balance (also in mm) is either forward the blade (+) or backward to the handle (-) where 0 was arbitrarily positioned to the chin as I find it to be a point anyone can easily relate to from the knives they have experience with - for example when comparing traditional Western handles vs. traditional Japanese handles if one never experienced the former or the latter.


MOOTB.jpg

Out of the box! :p

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After a good wash and conditioning of the handle with oil and wax. Blade was also rubbed with oil once, like I did with the Misono after the first wash.

MOBAL.JPG
MOCHOIL.JPG
MOSPINE.jpg


And then more alien still - to me. The initial impressions with this knife, being my first Wa handle AND truly handmade knife, were of the contradicting kind.

On the one hand, if you don't go nuts over the many imperfections of the Moritaka, it is an amazing experience to first lay eyes on it first person and hold it. It is beautiful in a way no factory knife can be, and the fit and finish is quite superb - obviously in a way that factory knives easily surpass, but boringly so. You take the imperfections into account, but you don't mind in any negative way: in fact, you start wondering how much it will cost to get a handmade knife that's been invested and loved and honed and polished enough that it will be of factory like fit and finish, and wanting one.

On the other hand, I was quite worried about a couple of things: the grind was well made in the superficial sense, but poorly made in the practical sense, thick with big shoulders where the kurouchi starts, so performance was my first worry. Also, my first Wa handle, and it's just seeing it first person that made me realize, truly realize, how different it is to have the ferrule that much backward of the choil, so handling it was my second worry.

Then my third worry was all the bad things I heard off around here concerning some overgrind with the Moritakas. So I immediately set to verify that there was not a possibility of hole in the edge somewhere along the blade road. I had arranged with Paul that I could send the knife back would I find anything suspicious. These next pictures were me trying to capture my findings: there was no obvious problem there.

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And with all this done with, I still hadn't used the knife, and my biggest worries remained.

Oh yeah - that's an ugly/beautiful box... better quality than the Misono, gold engraving looking nice, but that beige is 1970 kitsch ugly...

To be followed up...
 
Moritaka - Aogami #2 series Gyuto 9.5" / 240 mm (fitted with walnut rounded octagonal handle instead of the basic oval cherrywood offered on Moritaka's website)
255 / 240 / 50 / 3 / 1 / +40 / 166g
https://www.paulsfinest.com/ 200$ CAD


Blade length / Edge length / Height / Thickness (heel) / Thickness (tip) / Balance (Chin = 0) / Weight
In mm; all measures are first hand; balance (also in mm) is either forward the blade (+) or backward to the handle (-) where 0 was arbitrarily positioned to the chin as I find it to be a point anyone can easily relate to from the knives they have experience with - for example when comparing traditional Western handles vs. traditional Japanese handles if one never experienced the former or the latter.


View attachment 75089
Out of the box! :p

View attachment 75087 View attachment 75088
After a good wash and conditioning of the handle with oil and wax. Blade was also rubbed with oil once, like I did with the Misono after the first wash.

View attachment 75085 View attachment 75086 View attachment 75090

And then more alien still - to me. The initial impressions with this knife, being my first Wa handle AND truly handmade knife, were of the contradicting kind.

On the one hand, if you don't go nuts over the many imperfections of the Moritaka, it is an amazing experience to first lay eyes on it first person and hold it. It is beautiful in a way no factory knife can be, and the fit and finish is quite superb - obviously in a way that factory knives easily surpass, but boringly so. You take the imperfections into account, but you don't mind in any negative way: in fact, you start wondering how much it will cost to get a handmade knife that's been invested and loved and honed and polished enough that it will be of factory like fit and finish, and wanting one.

On the other hand, I was quite worried about a couple of things: the grind was well made in the superficial sense, but poorly made in the practical sense, thick with big shoulders where the kurouchi starts, so performance was my first worry. Also, my first Wa handle, and it's just seeing it first person that made me realize, truly realize, how different it is to have the ferrule that much backward of the choil, so handling it was my second worry.

Then my third worry was all the bad things I heard off around here concerning some overgrind with the Moritakas. So I immediately set to verify that there was not a possibility of hole in the edge somewhere along the blade road. I had arranged with Paul that I could send the knife back would I find anything suspicious. These next pictures were me trying to capture my findings: there was no obvious problem there.

View attachment 75091 View attachment 75092 View attachment 75093 View attachment 75094

And with all this done with, I still hadn't used the knife, and my biggest worries remained.

Oh yeah - that's an ugly/beautiful box... better quality than the Misono, gold engraving looking nice, but that beige is 1970 kitsch ugly...

To be followed up...

I think that Moritaka looks very nice. Choil shots can be misleading, but if this one is true to the geometry, you have a very nice example. Some people want every knife to cut like a laser, but IMHO that is not what every knife is designed for.
 
but IMHO that is not what every knife is designed for.

I couldn’t agree more. That’s why I can’t even think in terms of “my favourite knife”. I see each one a reflection of the maker ... or designer in the case of factory knives ... view of what the knife should do and how it performs. The Wustoff Classic and Victorinox knives stamped from sheet steel have a proven place in the history of knives. I use both and at times in preference to their hand made counterparts. A big part of my pleasure from sharpening and collecting knives comes from trying to understand and appreciate what the maker intended. The qualification is that I’m an amateur in both sharpening and cooking. A Chef may have a very different view which is equally valid. To them the knife is a tool to be matched to their preferences. Differing perspectives and differing choices.
 
This finally arrived.

Dalman Warikomi 210 “second”

220x 54
Spine at handle: 3.7mm
Half: 1.75mm
171 grams

I was expecting this thing to be way chunkier. It tapers quickly out the handle. I would consider at least mine to be a “Middleweight“ but to Me it feels light and super nimble. Core feels rock hard. Grind is crazy good as expected. Seems quite reactive but manageable. Did some potatoes and onions for breakfast and this thing smoked them.

there are a few spots on the knife that I think just look a little darker and one blem in the steel. (See photos)

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Half the knives in my collection should look so good! Great catch! As usual Dalman’s standards are high and work superb. His “Rust Bucket” out-performed and whacked one of my favourite gyutos right out of my permanent block and is now used daily. ... and this was one of his earliest knives! Check out the growing patina.

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yeah looking good Brian. I suspect their completely different beasts though. Its one ill be holding onto for a while (hopefully)
 
Dark spots on the cladding are just the forging surface, those are regular occuring just Björns forging are very clean, not very scaly or so. I only do a light buffing on it.

Robin, I’m just going to assume that there’s nothing different about it than the others and your just giving poor people like me the opportunity to get one. ;)
 
After sitting somewhere in Canada since March 12, it showed up in my community mailbox today - supposedly signed for by me.

Kono HD2 210. Always wanted to try one and the price was good enough not to pass it up.


View attachment 75104

Curious if you think the handle is to large? I had the 240 and thought the handle was the perfect size for it. I sold it because I don't like having large lasers so I picked up the 210 which I'm much happier with.
Just feel like the handle is a bit large for it, but that's just me.

I'm thinking I'm gonna experiment with my first burnt handle and if it doesn't go well I'll just grab a custom.
 
I haven't used it yet, but I'd say at first feeling the handle is long. Not so much that I think I'm going to disagree with it.

What I don't like about the handle is the edges of the octagon are "sharp" - very well defined. I'd like to just knock the edge off to make them a bit smooter.
 
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Moritaka - Aogami #2 series Gyuto 9.5" / 240 mm (Follow up)
255 / 240 / 50 / 3 / 1 / +40 / 166g


Obviously, the not having used the knife yet situation got resolved as soon as the handle was conditioned.

IMG_4222.JPG


BTW, these are amazing to secure a cutting board on the counter, underside breathes well and won't soak in anything, rises it up a bit which is good, and easily washed afterwards.

On a first run, I had specific cuts I wanted to test the grind with:
IMG_4224.JPG


- slicing a garlic clove to about rice grain shape/size, not obsessing on the precision, just horizontal slices then mince. We're on the good side of that thick grind - very shallow produce, and the Moritaka did very well.
IMG_4226.JPG


- mincing an onion, then again not particularly obsessing over a perfect brunoise, just targeting slight pieces that won't overwhelm the rice (duh!) this prep is intended for. The knife wedges when comes the time to halve such a small red onion. Otherwise, the horizontal slices and mince go quite well. No reactivity whatsoever.
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- and then some celery and carrots, still not obsessing over a particular size as long as it doesn't overwhelm the rice.
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Yeah, there was a cloud just then, quite a cold hue on the celery

The Moritaka worked very fine with these ingredients when came the time to mince, but had difficulty halving the carrots (push cut into a "taller" ingredient and this grind shows its weaknesses, and they were small carrots too!!), although it had no problem tip slicing these halves into quarters, nor tip slicing the celery horizontally. In the mince, I could feel some lasery potential. The Moritaka has the same prejudice than the Misono towards slicing, but is just too thick to excel as much and feel as pleasurable. It is not, however, to the point of unnerving, just disappointing.

The handling of the knife didn't bother me in the slightest; on the contrary, and much to my own surprise, I loved it. I can honestly say that, from my experience, I have no preference between Yo and Wa handles, but that having a bolster on a Yo or having a Wa handle feels much better than cheaper knives without bolster (Victorinox Rosewood). It is a light knife, the grip feels secure, my middle finger nestles well at the choil, the forward balance helped being precise when horizontally slicing each of these ingredients.

Second test was more about fluidity and speed : regular approximate slicing of everyday ingredients for a quick sauté with the added "difficulty" of managing space by leaving prepped ingredients on the board and accumulating.

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Yeah sorry, I was storing the preparation away and had completely forgotten about photographing the onions. I swear all the ingredients were still on the board and I didn't have quite a lot of space to slice that second onion. :p

Ok so the Moritaka is no more of a tip tap mushroom chopper than the Misono, but slices them about as well as long as they are on the smaller size like these. I guess that a taller mushroom would again underline the thick grind of the knife in a bad way.

Peppers... well no difficulty slicing them, BUT the ineffective grind shows once again when cutting a quarter off the whole pepper, and in quite a bad way. Hard to follow the curve and make a good ready to be sliced piece, it wedges.

The onions... the knife actually squeaked - SQUEAKED - when I halved these onions. It had wedged in the much smaller red onion, but with these it truly squeaked. How thick can you be? :p

Once that done, the mincing went quite well despite the thick grind, although we're a long way from the Zwilling and the Misono, and we stand even short on the Victorinox performance. Bit of reactivity there, but nothing close to the Misono thanks to cladding, and perhaps some propriety of Aogami #2 also? Only a few slices of onions show a hint of dark coloring, and the very edge now has some of a rainbow-ish halo to it.

Sooooo... Let's wrap this up quick, I have barely 25 full minutes of use with this knife and can't tell much outside first impressions, and a grind can be rectified, although this one will show in the final note as I noted all the other ones for performance OOTB, and this one won't escape the judgment.

Pro : aesthetically pleasing, better than expected F&F, amazing handling, light and nimble

Meh : squeaking... really?

Con : awfully thick grind

Bottom line : 'nuff said!

Performance (OOTB) : 3/5
Experience : 4/5 (yeah it has suffered enough in the Performance section, let's give it the praise it deserves for wow factor and pride of ownership factor)
F&F : 3.5/5 (this is an entry level priced handmade knife, and while quite well done, it literally has tons of lovely imperfections)
Value : 2.5/5 (I debated a long time if it deserved even lower score than the Zwilling here... I honestly don't think so, and with more experience of J knives one could possibly attribute it a higher value score - but I can only judge from my own inexperience and the highest price tag I've paid yet. It also has rough competition in its price range)

Overall : 6.5/10


 
A rare Dalman appeared... I've been trying to get one of these for a while so it was very exciting when I finally lucked out. I'll hopefully be able to cook something large with it on Friday.

Apologies for the terrible photography, my phone died so I'm using an old spare.

This looks awesome. I have a 210 on its way to me but its still stuck in customs.
 
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