Show your work! Uchigumori and co...

[refcast]

@Heckel7302

Seeing people do coarse geometry work is always my favorite

 

[Uncle Danny]

+1

 

[OkayMode]

I picked this 270 wrought clad Milan up last year which had been refinished with sandpaper.

It seemed like a bit of a job to get it back towards the original finish, but here’s where we’re at.

Start point:


After benchstones to remove as many visible scratches as possible:


After fingerstones:


The core steel now looks nicely pearlescent and scratch free, and the wrought cladding is now largely scratch-free too, with streaking from benchstones reduced (but not removed completely, and I can see a handful of annoying minor marks from the blade guard - doh).

Will this benefit from an etch to increase the contrast between the core steel and cladding, and how should I go about doing that at home?

Any finishing tips from more experienced members?

 

[ethompson]

I picked this 270 wrought clad Milan up last year which had been refinished with sandpaper.

It seemed like a bit of a job to get it back towards the original finish, but here’s where we’re at.

Start point:


After benchstones to remove as many visible scratches as possible:


After fingerstones:


The core steel now looks nicely pearlescent and scratch free, and the wrought cladding is now largely scratch-free too, with streaking from benchstones reduced (but not removed completely, and I can see a handful of annoying minor marks from the blade guard - doh).

Will this benefit from an etch to increase the contrast between the core steel and cladding, and how should I go about doing that at home?

Any finishing tips from more experienced members?

In my experience contrast between core and clad is more something inherent to the materials than the process or stone choice. In general, softer coarser stones will leave more contrast all else equal though.

Having just done it, getting an even finish on a surface that large is… challenging to say the least.

An etch would help even things out and bring out some more contrast and detail. This comes at the cost of the color natural stones create on steel, however. Multiple cycles of etch followed by fingerstone / powder are better than one deeper etch cycle. If you want to go this route, I’d suggest a strong blend citric / ascorbic acid as I find the color trade off if much less than something like ferric.

Alternatively just keep at it with finger-stones and your bench stone(s).

All depends on your final goal and preferences really.

 

[ethompson]

I’ve posted elsewhere, but will add these to this thread too. Full convex stone polish on a Tanaka gyuto in Togo steel.

Base polish was in a softer ohira and then I spent a lot of time working the core with a nakayama suita and blending it all together with finger-stones.

 

[OkayMode]

In my experience contrast between core and clad is more something inherent to the materials than the process or stone choice. In general, softer coarser stones will leave more contrast all else equal though.

Having just done it, getting an even finish on a surface that large is… challenging to say the least.

An etch would help even things out and bring out some more contrast and detail. This comes at the cost of the color natural stones create on steel, however. Multiple cycles of etch followed by fingerstone / powder are better than one deeper etch cycle. If you want to go this route, I’d suggest a strong blend citric / ascorbic acid as I find the color trade off if much less than something like ferric.

Alternatively just keep at it with finger-stones and your bench stone(s).

All depends on your final goal and preferences really.

Ed, you can’t just post your full kasumi after someone else posts their full kasumi, it’s not fair

It’s not the highest contrast, but I might leave the etch for now and get some use out of it for a while - I’m quite happy with how the core steel in particular looks after all that bench stone work.

 

[ethompson]

Ed, you can’t just post your full kasumi after someone else posts their full kasumi, it’s not fair

It’s not the highest contrast, but I might leave the etch for now and get some use out of it for a while - I’m quite happy with how the core steel in particular looks after all that bench stone work.

Bonus, deep patina setting in will do something similar to etching bringing out more contrast and detail. Using finger stones to remove a strong patina will give a great finish.

 

[ethompson]

It’s not the highest contrast

Contrast is overrated - color and detail are the best

Just my opinion, everyone is entitled to their polishing preferences. Some people like hyper detailed low contrast burnished finishes, others like higher contrast deep matte kasumi. Personally I look for a bright refined kasumi with good color and very little burnishing.

 

[ethompson]

I’d suggest a strong blend citric / ascorbic acid as I find the color trade off if much less than something like ferric.

Already gotten 3 PMs about this, so laying it out here too.

Ascorbic acid is pure vitamin C, usually purchasable from health food stores in powder form. Citric acid is commonly used in cooking.

I use 35g ea / L of water at a baseline. Dissolve in warm water using my blender (does a great job descaling and cleaning the blender jar while it's at it!). I use a tall storage jar meant for spaghetti as a dunk tank. Put the blade in, swirl around for 15-45 seconds, rinse, spray with ammonia cleaner (I use windex), then paper towel and dish soap to clean.

Used this acid blend on this Kaeru honyaki and got much better color than ferric or muratic. Still not stone color, but pleasant:

 

[Uncle Danny]

Ha! Thanks again

 

[DanielC]

Just some relaxing polishing on some fine, fine stones with an old Masamoto.

 

[Uncle Danny]

Nice work

 

[DarwellianEmpire]

As Gandalf said, “Things have been set in motion that cannot be undone.”

My secondhand 240 Ginsan Takada has been in need of thinning for quite some time. It’s still thin but it wedges like hell and doesn’t have that Takada magic anymore. My polishing has gotten better but I haven’t actually thinned a blade in a very long time let alone alter the geometry . Welp, ripped the bandaid off tonight and said goodbye to the Suiboku finish

2.5 hours in on an SG 220 on just the right profile of the blade and we’re down 3.5 grams. Praise be the name of Takada-San because there were no low spots save for the makers stamp!! There is a slight convexity that I am trying desperately to not flatten and so far so good (I think?)

Not sure what I’m gonna do with the final polish. Maybe full stone shape & polish? Maybe stop at 3K and then move to sandpaper and paste and go full mirror? Try out some etchants? I’ve never worked with ginsan before so I have no idea what to expect. Currently at 112.7 grams

Thick as hell!


So far!


Convex!

 

[OkayMode]

As Gandalf said, “Things have been set in motion that cannot be undone.”

My secondhand 240 Ginsan Takada has been in need of thinning for quite some time. It’s still thin but it wedges like hell and doesn’t have that Takada magic anymore. My polishing has gotten better but I haven’t actually thinned a blade in a very long time let alone alter the geometry . Welp, ripped the bandaid off tonight and said goodbye to the Suiboku finish

2.5 hours in on an SG 220 on just the right profile of the blade and we’re down 3.5 grams. Praise be the name of Takada-San because there were no low spots save for the makers stamp!! There is a slight convexity that I am trying desperately to not flatten and so far so good (I think?)

Not sure what I’m gonna do with the final polish. Maybe full stone shape & polish? Maybe stop at 3K and then move to sandpaper and paste and go full mirror? Try out some etchants? I’ve never worked with ginsan before so I have no idea what to expect. Currently at 112.7 grams

Thick as hell!
View attachment 298401

So far!
View attachment 298402

Convex!
View attachment 298403
View attachment 298404

It hurts taking something with as pretty a stock finish as this to the stones, but at the end of the day, utility is everything.

Good on ya

 

[Heckel7302]

Some further refinement on SG500

Starting to get smooth. Gesshin 1200

 

[OkayMode]

Bonus, deep patina setting in will do something similar to etching bringing out more contrast and detail.

Slightly off-topic, but this is easily the most reactive finish I’ve personally ever experienced.

One very big ribeye later, patina ‘etch’ is coming in hot…

 

[Heckel7302]

NP3000 reveals all sins. Hard to see, but couple of low spots were hidden by the softer stones. In the cladding, so maybe I’ll still move to jnats, but start with a coarser one than I normally would.

Also, f overground heels. I don’t think I’ve polished a knife that wasn’t. Don’t always trust the choil shots guys. Always a debate, make it look nice by making the over grind worse, or leave it and let it come out naturally with future bevel work. I’m certainly not grinding down the whole bevel to meet it.

 

[ethompson]

Also, f overground heels. I don’t think I’ve polished a knife that wasn’t. Don’t always trust the choil shots guys. Always a debate, make it look nice by making the over grind worse, or leave it and let it come out naturally with future bevel work. I’m certainly not grinding down the whole bevel to meet it.
View attachment 298711

Yep… very typical problem. Usually not worth chasing out and never worth creating a new overgrind to fix a small overgrind. Only way to handle it properly is the push the high spot (most of the blade road) down to that level. If it’s the tip of the heel sometimes you can sacrifice half a mm or so in height and add some extra convexity and fix it too. Or just grind away from the choil until it’s gone if you want to handle it how a knife maker would

 

[ethompson]

NP3000 reveals all sins. Hard to see, but couple of low spots were hidden by the softer stones.

I’ve grown to love working with hard synthetics and no slurry for this reason - no surprises when you get to naturals. You get clear honest feedback at each stage with nothing hidden.

 

[Heckel7302]

I’ve grown to love working with hard synthetics and no slurry for this reason - no surprises when you get to naturals. You get clear honest feedback at each stage with nothing hidden.

Yeah, nothing worse than getting all the way up to a hard fine finishing natural and discovering you should have worked out a low spot a bunch of stones earlier.

 

[DanielC]

Yeah, nothing worse than getting all the way up to hard fine finishing natural and discovering you should have worked out a low spot a bunch of stones earlier.

I do that nearly every time....I always assume I'm going to throw it back on a 180 after I hit 3k

 

[Uncle Danny]

Had some time to play around with the Heldqvist kiri today.

 

[nutmeg]

Hi there,

I am afraid this video may look pedantic to you..
And it was a great excuse to polish and play with an analog camera.

It shows indeed different levels of a kasumi polish on a Watanabe kinatro ame (damascus) petty.
You can see different flavors of kasumi. The higher the number, the longer it takes to be reached. And tools need to be more specific in order to match what the blade can offer and your vision of the finish.

@ Level 1, there is loads of macro contrast and quite hazy structure.
@ Level 2, you can see the surface becoming finer and micro contrast appearing.
@ Level 3, sky is the limit.

All the pictures were shot on Fujifilm Provia & Velvia 35mm slide film.
The pictures are original straight from my beloved Nikon film scanner. No crop or Photoshop after this.

 

[nutmeg]

 

[tostadas]

NP3000 reveals all sins. Hard to see, but couple of low spots were hidden by the softer stones. In the cladding, so maybe I’ll still move to jnats, but start with a coarser one than I normally would.

View attachment 298707

Also, f overground heels. I don’t think I’ve polished a knife that wasn’t. Don’t always trust the choil shots guys. Always a debate, make it look nice by making the over grind worse, or leave it and let it come out naturally with future bevel work. I’m certainly not grinding down the whole bevel to meet it.
View attachment 298711

Yep… very typical problem. Usually not worth chasing out and never worth creating a new overgrind to fix a small overgrind. Only way to handle it properly is the push the high spot (most of the blade road) down to that level. If it’s the tip of the heel sometimes you can sacrifice half a mm or so in height and add some extra convexity and fix it too. Or just grind away from the choil until it’s gone if you want to handle it how a knife maker would

Yea I've had my fair share that produced beautiful choil shots, but were complete chonks where it mattered. And to add insult to injury, they don't even allow for a dramatic before & after pic to show for all the work you end up putting in to fix it.

Nice progress on that knife though. I'm sure it will be awesome once you finish it up.

 

[DanielC]

Hi there,

I am afraid this video may look pedantic to you..
And it was a great excuse to polish and play with an analog camera.

It shows indeed different levels of a kasumi polish on a Watanabe kinatro ame (damascus) petty.
You can see different flavors of kasumi. The higher the number, the longer it takes to be reached. And tools need to be more specific in order to match what the blade can offer and your vision of the finish.

@ Level 1, there is loads of macro contrast and quite hazy structure.
@ Level 2, you can see the surface becoming finer and micro contrast appearing.
@ Level 3, sky is the limit.

All the pictures were shot on Fujifilm Provia & Velvia 35mm slide film.
The pictures are original straight from my beloved Nikon film scanner. No crop or Photoshop after this.

M83 and Daft Punk vibes

 

[Bico Doce]

@nutmeg thanks for the video and pics. I cant even imagine how much time it took you to put it all together

Something caught me eye and I was hoping you could explain a bit more about the technique you employed here which seemed foreign to me. In the pic below it seems like you almost pivoting about in a circular motion (or maybe that was just the editing in the video). I was just curious if that was the case and if so why would one employ that technique?

 

[Heckel7302]

Ended up taking it back down to NP800. Raised the shinogi a little more and worked out the remaining low spots. Then up to NP3k and Gesshin 6k

A hint of a low spot still remains. But I’m tired of playing on synths. BTE in the front third is also starting to get dangerously thin, and I still have to do the other side. Naturals here I come.

 

[refcast]

@Heckel7302

It's a low spot . . . You could say, but it's more of a grind taper or convexing. Usually in yanagiba and deba I see it slot, which is doable, because the geometry doesn't reach up far past the choil. On this one, it means raising the shinogi at the neck and choil, which asthetically might look awful.

 

[nutmeg]

@nutmeg thanks for the video and pics. I cant even imagine how much time it took you to put it all together

Something caught me eye and I was hoping you could explain a bit more about the technique you employed here which seemed foreign to me. In the pic below it seems like you almost pivoting about in a circular motion (or maybe that was just the editing in the video). I was just curious if that was the case and if so why would one employ that technique?

View attachment 298929

You're right. This circular motion isn't something you want to use on a kasumi!

When you shoot this kind of analog slide film (Velvia 50 here) you basically spend $1,80 every time you're pressing the shutter.
So you have to prepare your shot well! Even with this in mind, the time between two shots is generally very long, at least 15 seconds. Keeping the move right and the slurry at the same time is very, very challenging.
We don't want any trade offs but at the end, it was hard to make any informative shot look good and vice versa..

We are lucky that those Legos don't move too much