Steel Billet / San Mai Questions...

[bradmacmt]

I recently reached out to Sinichi Watanabe to see if he'd make me a 180mm x 55mm Santoku. I have one of his in 165mm x 50mm Santoku's and really like it for what it is, I just prefer something longer and taller for general work (Veg). Sinichi wrote back he could do 180mm, but that he couldn't go 55mm tall - 50mm would be the max due to the billets he uses.

So my question - are makers like Toyama and Watanabe buying pre-cladded billets and hammering them into shape, or are they applying their own stainless or steel cladding to the carbon cores (usually bule no. 2) they use?

I guess the same question would apply to Toyama's Damascus knives - is he buying a billet that already has an iron damascus cladding attached, or is he actually doing the folding of the outer steel and applying it to the carbon core?

 

[blokey]

Toyama never did laminate him self, it is all preliminated , carbon and stainless

For that size you can try ask Michael at knife Japan, some makers like Okubo make them in house.

 

[bradmacmt]

maxim said:
"Toyama never did laminate him self, it is all preliminated , carbon and stainless"

Well, straight from the source. Thanks, makes sense.

 

[Delat]

Henry Hyde is making me a 195x56 in coreless damascus, you might want to reach out to him. I’d imagine most Western smiths that either make their own billets or draw them out (vs stock removal) shouldn’t have a problem with those dimensions.

 

[blokey]

Still love my Toyama tho, prelamed or not they are great knives. Tho that said kind wondering why he wouldnt do a 55mm Santoku, I mean he could just cut off the top corner of a Wat pro Nakiri

 

[Mlan]

Japanese makers prefer to use pre-clad billets because it is faster, more consistent, lower failed rate, don’t have to heat it many times so less carbon loss, which all contribute to yielding a better knife at a lower cost. Basiclally it’s better in every way except the cool all made in-house factor and some aesthetic variation.

 

[riba]

Still love my Toyama tho, prelamed or not they are great knives. Tho that said kind wondering why he wouldnt do a 55mm Santoku, I mean he could just cut off the top corner of a Wat pro Nakiri

I myself wonder whether the maker of the Watanabe Pro nakiri and the gyuto 's is the same. They feel so different to me.
But I might be talking out of my ass

 

[bradmacmt]

Ah yes - the great Watanabe / Toyama mystery. I've only got a Wat Pro Santoku to compare to my Toyama's. I have to say the grind on the Wat is slightly different at the blade road. Otherwise I think you'd be hard pressed to see a difference. Performance seems the same.

 

[superworrier]

I myself wonder whether the maker of the Watanabe Pro nakiri and the gyuto 's is the same. They feel so different to me.
But I might be talking out of my ass

People used to think they were different because you couldn't buy the KU nakiri from Toyama. Now you can Toyama kurouchi aogami#2 nakiri 180mm

 

[riba]

People used to think they were different because you couldn't buy the KU nakiri from Toyama. Now you can Toyama kurouchi aogami#2 nakiri 180mm

Nice to know, thanks!