Stone for thinning

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Sas

Sas

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Hi!

I would like a stone to thin a few stainless German knives, I’ve been using Ali diamond plates 400 grit but they are slow and wear out too fast.
Which stone can you recommend that gives most abrasion per dollar, and fast as well? I really don’t care about scratches, and I can finish on a shapton 1K.

Was considering a 220 grit shapton for example
 
If you are on a budget, a Norton Crystalon Combo Fine/Coarse.

If you are not on a budget, one of the coarse diamond offerings. I recently bought the DMT Diaflat-95 and it has the hogging off of metal I am looking for. While this is pricey, it is less than many other diamond stones.

If you are smart and there are more than a few knives, a belt sander.
 
Mr Kooby Shemayrew said:
If you are on a budget, a Norton Crystalon Combo Fine/Coarse.

If you are not on a budget, one of the coarse diamond offerings. I recently bought the DMT Diaflat-95 and it has the hogging off of metal I am looking for. While this is pricey, it is less than many other diamond stones.

If you are smart and there are more than a few knives, a belt sander.
Click to expand...
Like this one?
https://www.amazon.nl/NORTON-combin...7&psc=1&mcid=30321479903a3b97a777dd5ee595ee3d
It says it can be used with water, is that true?

I am on a very tight budget yes
 
Sas said:
Like this one?
https://www.amazon.nl/NORTON-combin...7&psc=1&mcid=30321479903a3b97a777dd5ee595ee3d
It says it can be used with water, is that true?

I am on a very tight budget yes
Click to expand...

That is the India stone. It is great stone and I highly recommend it but it is not a speed demon. You want to find the Crystalon which cuts much faster.

This appears to be it:

https://www.amazon.nl/NORTON-Crystolon-combinatie-oliesteen-slijpsteen-wetsteen/dp/B0847Q2FFG/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?crid=3DXXK309Y6DNN&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.Xlb8_3PzcF9MRSpvvX8yQA6VaLtWb2dTqbtpoc6dTYCirAw_1Q_LdJYiSNqteECj34q4kOUNmroYHfJ_hKbaW7ViDB97O3s-RHAyS-oLlQ8enY7hWVXsN0Mo-RVjx5R-cOj2ijXf0NKV_Zg7B-0uuw.l2eFnGBVkEzttnzSwneN41bFevN4df1jVudEkb9-BSs&dib_tag=se&keywords=krystalon&qid=1710246682&sprefix=crystol,aps,540&sr=8-1


Both stones are loaded with oil but can be used with water. I like to use soapy water with them. I also prefer to leave them outside in the hot Sun and most of the oil will melt and run out of them. This greatly reduces any oily mess.

However, if you have a lot of thinning to do on a carbon knife, using them with oil helps protect the knife from rusting.
 
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I use a Naniwa Traditional Japanese Whetstone Sharpening Stone, 220 grit, T-901 for thinning. :cool:

This super coarse stone is perfect for very quickly grinding a new edge on your knife, and
for working out nicks or cracks or other imperfections in old used/abused/damaged knives.
Click to expand...
 
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Mr Kooby Shemayrew said:
That is the India stone. It is great stone and I highly recommend it but it is not a speed demon. You want to find the Crystalon which cuts much faster.

This appears to be it:

https://www.amazon.nl/NORTON-Crystolon-combinatie-oliesteen-slijpsteen-wetsteen/dp/B0847Q2FFG/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?crid=3DXXK309Y6DNN&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.Xlb8_3PzcF9MRSpvvX8yQA6VaLtWb2dTqbtpoc6dTYCirAw_1Q_LdJYiSNqteECj34q4kOUNmroYHfJ_hKbaW7ViDB97O3s-RHAyS-oLlQ8enY7hWVXsN0Mo-RVjx5R-cOj2ijXf0NKV_Zg7B-0uuw.l2eFnGBVkEzttnzSwneN41bFevN4df1jVudEkb9-BSs&dib_tag=se&keywords=krystalon&qid=1710246682&sprefix=crystol,aps,540&sr=8-1


Both stones are loaded with oil but can be used with water. I like to use soapy water with them. I also prefer to leave them outside in the hot Sun and most of the oil will melt and run out of them. This greatly reduces any oily mess.

However, if you have a lot of thinning to do on a carbon knife, using them with oil helps protect the knife from rusting.
Click to expand...
Like can be used with only soapy water and no oil at all?

Considering the India now since it seems like that might be a bit more versatile?

What do you think?
 
I've used Crystolon and Indias a lot and for thinning soft stainless, I'd use oil. If you clog or glaze them, they suck to recover.

The problem with either stone, especially with soft stainless is clogging.

For German knives, I just use sandpaper. You don't do it often enough to really care about the expense.
 
HumbleHomeCook said:
I've used Crystolon and Indias a lot and for thinning soft stainless, I'd use oil. If you clog or glaze them, they suck to recover.

The problem with either stone, especially with soft stainless is clogging.

For German knives, I just use sandpaper. You don't do it often enough to really care about the expense.
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Hmm sandpaper, you think that will be cheaper over the course of thinning 3/4 chef knives and maybe 2 paring knives?
Cuz the crystolon is like 34 and India 41 shipped
 
Sas said:
Hmm sandpaper, you think that will be cheaper over the course of thinning 3/4 chef knives and maybe 2 paring knives?
Cuz the crystolon is like 34 and India 41 shipped
Click to expand...

I didn't say it would be cheaper, just that I prefer it. I wrap the paper around a stone and when it's dead I swap it out. Yeah, you burn through some but refreshing a Crytolon over and over can be a pain. They definitely work though.
 
Also, in terms of thinning, with German knives, it is my experience that you don't really need to do a lot of actually thinning. For that matter, I tend to not want to thin too much. They are designed the way they are and in that steel for a reason. Start by knocking the shoulders off the edge bevel and blending that in and you might be surprised at the difference it makes.

Also understand, that while I know you said you don't mind scratches, those German knives are not evenly ground and as soon as you touch an abrasive to the side, you're going to see it. No matter how I started, I usually end up with some sandpaper in hand if for no other reason than just blending things a bit.
 
Sas said:
It says it can be used with water, is that true?

I am on a very tight budget yes
Click to expand...

The Zandstra FOSS stone is a better choice to work with water, it's local to you, and it's 10" long and 3" wide for faster work, thinning. That's more surface area than even the Norton JUM3, and again it will work better with water. It's about €33 before tax if you shop around.
 
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For strictly thinning stainless knives I like the King Neo 800 a lot. Thinning = regular maintenance, resetting the geometry after sharpening. OP is really talking about regrinding the knife to alter its geometry. I would tackle this in one long session with sandpaper, using a grit range of 120-220-400 before jumping to my regular stones. It's much faster than using stones, though a lot messier. Better than spending money on a single-purpose stone that won't see regular use.
 
If going the sandpaper route I found "3M Pro Grade Precision with Cubiton II Grit" to last longer than either silicon carbide wet-or-dry automotive paper or Rhynowet Redline, and the non-slip back is more convenient too. However I will contest the statement that "it's much faster than using stones" if you have the right stone(s). The first few passes on a fresh sheet of paper it is super-aggressive, but you'll burn through a ridiculous amount of paper if you change it often enough to preserve that advantage, in my experience at least.
 
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Mr.Wizard said:
If going the sandpaper route I found "3M Pro Grade Precision with Cubiton II Grit" to last longer than either silicon carbide wet-or-dry automotive paper or Rhynowet Redline, and the non-slip back is more convenient too. However I will contest the statement that "it's much faster than using stones" if you have the right stone(s). The first few passes on a fresh sheet of paper it is super-aggressive, but you'll burn through a ridiculous amount of paper of you change it often enough to preserve that advantage, in my experience at least.
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I haven't tried many low grit stones, the fastest was a SP120 but I felt it was significantly slower than Cubitron paper. Are you using it wet or dry? Dry is where you get the real speed advantage, but again, it's super messy and you really need a dedicated space to do it in.
 
@spaceconvoy I use all paper wet that will allow it. It is peculiar that dry should cut faster as lubrication aids grinding in all studies I can recall seeing. How do you keep the paper clean enough to cut using it dry? I have some GatorGrit paper that is not water compatible and I use a "belt cleaner" block but it still loads with swarf and does not cut nearly as well as Cubitron II paper that is periodically brushed under flowing water.
 
Mr.Wizard said:
@spaceconvoy I use all paper wet that will allow it. It is peculiar that dry should cut faster as lubrication aids grinding in all studies I can recall seeing. How do you keep the paper clean enough to cut using it dry? I have some GatorGrit paper that is not water compatible and I use a "belt cleaner" block but it still loads with swarf and does not cut nearly as well as Cubitron II paper that is periodically brushed under flowing water.
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I just brush the swarf off regularly with a nylon paintbrush. Maybe if you had some setup where the paper was angled steep enough and the water was flowing fast enough it could wash away the swarf but in practice I feel like using water just keeps the swarf sticking around.

Also sandpaper doesn't absorb water like a water stone. I can't quite explain it but I feel like when using water with sandpaper the water forms a barrier (maybe through surface tension? idk) and just doesn't cut as fast as when dry. Water is not a lubricant, and 'wet/dry' means you can use it wet, like with stain or something, not that you should.

Using dry sandpaper at higher grits might be less effective but I'm thinking mainly about the 120 grit paper that I use for the bulk of the work. There's enough space between the grit for swarf to settle into so you don't need to brush it off as often. With 400 grit you want to brush it off almost after every stroke, but at 120 you can go for a good bit. I like to stop and check regularly so it doesn't feel like an impediment to me
 
I spot some differences in our application. I rinse the paper under a faucet while scrubbing with a stiff nylon brush. If you cannot do that I can understand why it would be hard to get it clean. (But I don't find dry brushing particularly effective either.) I add a drop of dish detergent to my water bottle with breaks surface tension and probably provides some lubrication.
 
On a budget, I'd recommend a coarse Crystolon or India stone. Being in Europe, maybe check eBay? Alternatively, Shapton Glass or Pro 220, King 300 or 220.

Diamond plates can also be an option, but they're very easy to pull diamonds off of. Especially the cheaper ones.
 
Sas said:
Like can be used with only soapy water and no oil at all?

Considering the India now since it seems like that might be a bit more versatile?

What do you think?
Click to expand...

I use mine with soapy water. The soap gives extra lubricity. Sort of like a half-way point between straight water and oil. Helps clean up too.

Don’t let me talk anyone out of buying a stone. I’m always a proponent of more stones and I recommend both the India and Crystalon. Add the prices and you basically are getting 4 stones.

If I had to choose one for thinning it would be the Crystalon. It is softer and friable. The India is extremely hard and releases no grit. It would be a very long day thinning 3 knives on an India. The India gives a superb edge though. The Crystalon is for speed only.
 
M1k3 said:
On a budget, I'd recommend a coarse Crystolon or India stone. Being in Europe, maybe check eBay? Alternatively, Shapton Glass or Pro 220, King 300 or 220.

Diamond plates can also be an option, but they're very easy to pull diamonds off of. Especially the cheaper ones.
Click to expand...
In Europe, Crystolon or India are available with local Amazon.
 
I moved to a sandpaper camp. I do not thin that much, but when I need a substancial thinning I use dry sandpaper glued onto the back side of the Atoma plate. Just watch out for the blade heating, it can get very hot very fast.
 
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