Sukenari Ginsan Gyutos 210 & 240

[maiko]

I have not found much discussion of these knives on this forum, so I wanted to share what I think are two excellent values for middle-weight stainless gyutos. I just got these in, so don't have much experience with them; but I've enjoyed using them so far. Please let me know if you have any questions or any experiences with these knives to share.

210 and 240:

240:

210:

 

[Kippington]

I love Sukenari knives, but I don't have any experience in any other knives at this price range (other then Konosuke).
So I guess I can't comment...

 

[aboynamedsuita]

I have the 240 W#1 Honyaki and 270 ZDP-189. I have some info from Koki and will post later

 

[aboynamedsuita]

Here is an excerpt from the email I was referring to. I sent it shortly after ordering the Honyaki W#1. I remember when JCK first introduced Sukenari I was interested as I hadn't heard if them before.

QUESTION
Hi Koki,

Thank you for processing my order so quickly and answering my question.

The Sukenari ZDP-189 Wa Gyutos are also interesting, and I am thinking I may order one in the near future. I am wondering if you have more information about the Sukenari company, as I have only heard of them recently. I would be interested to know how they compare to Masamoto or Watanabe (as examples) if you know this information.

RESPONSE
Dear ...............

Thank you very much for your new order and your interest.

Sukenari has long time of knife making experience and it is very rare to see the forge-smith and craftsman try to keep the traditional way of forging and making process (without any compromise), it is much time consuming process for making the knives without recent machine, by many of hand working process which requires skillful experience and techiniques.

Masamoto is very famous knife maker located in Tokyo. They used to make the knives by themseleves from beginning process. But Tokyo area has very high price for the land (ground), Masamoto could not keep the factory and now the Forge-smith and Craftsman in Sakai city or Seki City makes Masamoto knives. (Masamoto does the final sharpening process and quality control for the Masamoto knives which are also very important for the knives.

Sukenari is doing the entire making process with the traditional method of forging and making process. They are making the knives for professionals chefs, quality level and level of craftsmanship are very high I felt these when I visited Sukenari company before.

Sukenari name is not so popular in the oversea market yet, but we believe they are one of great forge-smith and crafttsman who can make the fine traditional forged knives for professional users.

ZDP-189 Damascus Wa Gyuto 240mm and Wa Gyuto 270mm are being available with limited quantity. Once the items get sold out and out of stock, it normally requires long delivery time to be finished and available again.

We hope your art of Sukenari Honyaki Gyuto will be your special tool and great cooking partner.

Thank you very much again for shopping with us and your continued support

Have a great weekend and great cooking time !!

Best Regards

Koki

 

[maiko]

Here is an excerpt from the email I was referring to. I sent it shortly after ordering the Honyaki W#1. I remember when JCK first introduced

Thanks for posting. How do you like the Honyaki W#1?

 

[aboynamedsuita]

Thanks for posting. How do you like the Honyaki W#1?

Well it was my first Honyaki so I guess I had really high expectations of what a "Honyaki" knife is like to use based in what I had read/heard about the highly coveted "Honyaki" knives.

I thought it would be ultra delicate, ultra reactive, etc. but was pleasantly surprised in this regard. It has lost a lot of its initial mirror polish due to patina but it has some really cool green, gold, magenta and blue hues if the light hits it right. Overall the patina almost seems to be a frosty white rather than the typical greyish. The edge retention seems higher that some of the other carbons I have (after much use can still cut thru tomato with its own weight and the slightest push motion, rather than just slide across the skin). I don't think it cuts any better than another knife with similar geometry, I actually prefer my Misono Swedish Steel gyuto for certain tasks because it is a bit thinner.

Is it worth paying extra for a Honyaki? I dunno, everyone has their own list of wants/likes/needs. I certainly wasn't underwhelmed with my first Honyaki, but thought it would have been more of a game changer. I like it enough that I busted the handle off and am getting a rather fancy custom for it along with the ZDP-189 one. I had initially wanted the Miz W#2 Honyaki but had no idea at the time that they were hidden at JCK (not under the brands) so got the Sukenari W#1 Honyaki when I got the product alert email from Koki.

 

[spoiledbroth]

was wondering how flexible these ginsan knives are and how soft the cladding is? also how's the edge retention?

 

[QCDawg]

I have had numerous "clad" Suki's (Damascus and San mai). I like them and have a 240 sg2 san mai otw. Most of the line seems to be very consistant in dimensions and design (throughout core steels, and san mai or the layered shiny Nickel Damascus). Doesn't matter whether they are branded Sukenari or JCK or fu rin ka Zan. They are thicker than "lasers". Not flexy at all, but thin "ish". Middleweights. The dammies and some San mai get a higher level of f&f. Handles are all over the place. Good grinds, good cutters. They see to be willing to push the envelope, take advantage of "what's hot" with regard to core steel. They seem like a very high quality outfit...that is verticle (I think they do each "link in the chain of mfg. themselves). Just my $.02

 

[Sharp-Hamono]

I have had numerous "clad" Suki's (Damascus and San mai). I like them and have a 240 sg2 san mai otw. Most of the line seems to be very consistant in dimensions and design (throughout core steels, and san mai or the layered shiny Nickel Damascus). Doesn't matter whether they are branded Sukenari or JCK or fu rin ka Zan. They are thicker than "lasers". Not flexy at all, but thin "ish". Middleweights. The dammies and some San mai get a higher level of f&f. Handles are all over the place. Good grinds, good cutters. They see to be willing to push the envelope, take advantage of "what's hot" with regard to core steel. They seem like a very high quality outfit...that is verticle (I think they do each "link in the chain of mfg. themselves). Just my $.02

I was reading this thread last night but was too shy to necrobump it (so thanks for re-breaking the ice). Do you have any experience with their current clad (sanmai) ginsan forged vs. stamped knives? The stamped blades are listed as all being 2mm thick, which seems really thin, and since the forged blade has a different thickness (3.2mm), I'm not sure what kind of differences there would be between the two knives, as far as the grind is concerned. Maybe the forged one has more of a distal taper or a more pronounced convex grind?

 

[QCDawg]

That's a good question, and no.. I haven't had a "stamped" suki. They do have that option out there.

 

[labor of love]

The difference in spine for gyutos(atleast the ones koki carries) seem to be 2.6mm vs 3.0mm. 2.6mm worries me just a bit but the people that own them sure do enjoy them.

 

[Sharp-Hamono]

That's a good question, and no.. I haven't had a "stamped" suki. They do have that option out there.

How does the edge retention compare to some other knives? Particularly other stainless steel knives...

 

[supersayan3]

I can't help in informing you about the ginsan, I think Spoiledbroth has both the forged and the stamped, but I would expect them to be good knives. Question is how they will fit to your hand, and if your cutting styles match with their profiles.
That applies to the equation : individual cook + individual knife.
One thing that I am sure is that Sukenari knives are cheap for their quality and finish compared to other makers.
The Honyakis have different profile compared to the other series, as I can tell from my AS and photos. Honyakis also have a different curve behind and above the heel, not that it matters in action.
One thing that impressed me in Sukenari, both the white 1 and the AS, they seem to be less reactive than the Hiromotos white 2, both in the blade and the foods, and the AS, takes very different color from the Hiromoto AS.
Edge wise, I am very happy with all four.
Sukenari AS, must be similar profile to ginsan, in my hand, feels better for rock chopping than vertical cutting, but performs very fine vertical as well.
But to every person, it is not the same.
Depends on your cutting style, height, many factors

 

[labor of love]

Sukenari wh1? I'm guessing your talking about honyaki?

 

[supersayan3]

Yes, and has slightly different profile than the rest.
It is my only Carbon that doesn't discolor red onion, or if it does, it takes much more time to get discolored. Don't have the technical knowledge to explain why

 

[supersayan3]

I have to add, that based on a Gator's graphic with the edges, Sukenari are not convex. They are V edge.
Based on that graphic, the only knife I ever had with convex edge, was a Global G2, which had excellent food separation, without potato slices sticking to the blade(I was very patient on sharpening it with different method on the stones, in order to maintain it)

 

[Sharp-Hamono]

If anybody is interested, I am emailing back and forth with Koki about these and he mentioned that Sukenari doesn't plan to make more of the forged Ginsan #3 knives, so those are likely a limited supply.

 

[Von blewitt]

If anybody is interested, I am emailing back and forth with Koki about these and he mentioned that Sukenari doesn't plan to make more of the forged Ginsan #3 knives, so those are likely a limited supply.

I ordered one last Thursday, Koki told me it was one of 2 left.
I received it today and I'm really impressed for the $$$ quite heavily convexed from spine to edge pretty much ground 50/50 as far as I can see. I'm at work on Friday I'll report back after a full shift. Hoping edge retention will be ok, Koki said it's 61-62 HRC

 

[labor of love]

I ordered one last Thursday, Koki told me it was one of 2 left.
I received it today and I'm really impressed for the $$$ quite heavily convexed from spine to edge pretty much ground 50/50 as far as I can see. I'm at work on Friday I'll report back after a full shift. Hoping edge retention will be ok, Koki said it's 61-62 HRC

How's the profile? I've read that it's more for rock chopping.

 

[Von blewitt]

I wouldn't call it a rocker, it's got a decent flat spot towards the heel and a relatively low tip, it's a touch short for me (spine to edge) but overall I like the profile.

A quick tracing with a gengetsu 240 for comparison

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[Sharp-Hamono]

I ordered one last Thursday, Koki told me it was one of 2 left.
I received it today and I'm really impressed for the $$$ quite heavily convexed from spine to edge pretty much ground 50/50 as far as I can see. I'm at work on Friday I'll report back after a full shift. Hoping edge retention will be ok, Koki said it's 61-62 HRC

I tried ordering the last forged ginsan gyuto, but Koki informed me that the handle on that one was installed slightly twisted, which obviously isn't going to affect cutting performance, but at the price point, it just seemed kind of bleh to spend that much on a nice kitchen knife and have it be a factory second. I decided to go for the Fu-Rin-Ka-Zan AS gyuto contracted out by Sukenari instead. I got the 270mm, which just arrived earlier so I haven't had a chance to put it through its paces.

Initial observations seem similar to your description of your ginsan: It's a medium weight, medium thickness knife. Not too thin, not too thick anywhere. Pretty stiff, but still has some flex. The blade grind is very noticeably convex on the right side, more mildly convex on the left side. The spine and choil are rounded. It's pretty thin behind the edge, but not a laser. I really only notice the distal taper about 3/4 along the length where it thins out toward the tip. It has a nice long flat spot and despite the tip being more symmetrical than it is downswept, the curve through the belly is very slow and the tip is held low on the board. The handle is basic octagonal ho wood with buffalo horn ferrule and looks to have about the same level of F&F as the handles on many other knives, but I can't comment meaningfully on much else about it. The blade does seem to run a little on the small side for a 270mm gyuto. Looking forward to putting this through its paces!

 

[panda]

why didnt you just ask him to reinstall the handle correctly?

 

[Sharp-Hamono]

why didnt you just ask him to reinstall the handle correctly?

It wasn't offered.