Takada finish question. Is this kasumi or suiboku?

[jacobwilder5]

Just got this Takada Ginsan 270mm gyuto from Tsubuya. They label it as a kasumi finish and not suiboku but they look similar. What’s the real difference in the finish between this and the suiboku?

 

[cwk.v]

Looks like kasumi to me.

 

[toddnmd]

I think suiboku is a carbon steel finish.
Whatever the name of your finish, Takada is a master sharpener/finisher/polisher and you should enjoy his work.

 

[jedy617]

Nah they do it on ginsan. That looks like suiboku to me?

https://carbonknifeco.com/products/takada-no-hamono-suiboku-ginsan-gyuto-210mm

 

[jacobwilder5]

I think suiboku is a carbon steel finish.
Whatever the name of your finish, Takada is a master sharpener/finisher/polisher and you should enjoy his work.

Yeah of course. It’s a great knife and beautiful either way just don’t have a suiboku to compare it too and wasn’t sure what the difference was on finish.

 

[blokey]

Nah they do it on ginsan. That looks like suiboku to me?

https://carbonknifeco.com/products/takada-no-hamono-suiboku-ginsan-gyuto-210mm

I'm impressed, its still kind different from iron cladded ones but much better than most. Ginsan Kasumi always feels weird to me, just very grainy and artificial

 

[jacobwilder5]

Couple more looks

 

[cwk.v]

Still stand by my earlier comment!

 

[blokey]

Couple more looks

View attachment 229728
View attachment 229727

Love the look, how do you like the knife so far?

 

[jacobwilder5]

Love the look, how do you like the knife so far

Really like it so far. Only prepped dinner once but coming from no experience with a Takada I think I’m starting to understand the hype a bit more. Balance, f&f, and cutting performance stood out immediately and are fantastic. Also love the profile on it. Only gripe is it’s on the shorter side. Haven’t measured it yet but the height has to be sub 50

 

[Duukt]

I see a clear cladding line on the blade. How is that a kasumi finish? I thought the purpose of the kasumi finish was to obscure the cladding line or make it cloudy. At least the kasumi blades I own all do that.

 

[nexus1935]

From the pics it looks like the kasumi finish.

Another way to tell them apart is by touch - the suiboku finish has a polished smooth feel too it, while the kasumi finish has a sandpaper smooth feeling (as @blokey mentioned).

 

[jacobwilder5]

From the pics it looks like the kasumi finish.

Another way to tell them apart is by touch - the suiboku finish has a polished smooth feel too it, while the kasumi finish has a sandpaper smooth feeling (as @blokey mentioned).

Thanks, this is what I was looking for. Def kasumi then if suiboku is more polish smooth.

 

[jedy617]

I see a clear cladding line on the blade. How is that a kasumi finish? I thought the purpose of the kasumi finish was to obscure the cladding line or make it cloudy. At least the kasumi blades I own all do that.

The cloudy finish should be above the cladding line, on most kasumi knives the cladding is very very visible and stone polishing make them pop. I've never heard of a purpose of kasumi should be to hide the cladding line but that's just me

An example on a tetsujin kasumi where you can easily make out the cladding, and the kasumi is above the core of course.

 

[Delat]

I see a clear cladding line on the blade. How is that a kasumi finish? I thought the purpose of the kasumi finish was to obscure the cladding line or make it cloudy. At least the kasumi blades I own all do that.

Maybe you’re thinking of migaki? I’ve never tried to do it my myself, but I believe a big part of the art of kasumi is drawing out the contrast of cladding vs core as the two react differently (one hardened, one soft).

Here’s an example of kasumi from the current king of kasumi. Milan doesn’t go for a polished core but he does draw out a clean distinction between core and cladding.

https://moderncooking.com/en-us/col...clad-135cr3-full-kasumi-phenix-mali-irie-cros
I’m kind of an uncultured philistine, so I also like fake sandblasted kasumi too like this example.
https://mtckitchen.com/yoshimi-kato-aogami-super-kurouchi-gyuto-210mm-8-2/
Here’s a plain migaki.
https://carbonknifeco.com/products/tsunehisa-as-migaki-gyuto-210mm

 

[SWF]

Tsubaya sells their OEM version of the Takadas. Lower price, less detailed finish. But still looking nice.

 

[madmotts]

Congrats- it's pretty knife whether it is or isn't.

Next month i'll be dropping by his workshop and ask about the differences. Found this thread on reddit

 

[esoo]

You can see the pics from the suiboku ginsan I had for sale here that the suiboku finish seems to be more refined in comparison

 

[dehory]

I thought I’d add a data point here since I just received a suiboku gyuto in blue 2 and a suiboku sujihiki in ginsan this week, and thought the contrast between the two was interesting. Both are mainline Takada No Hamono (not Tsubaya) editions.

The blue 2’s suiboku finish looks very different to the ginsan’s suiboku finish. The ginsan is much more subtle (and hard to photograph). It’s bordering on a mirror finish. If I hadn’t read the comment in this thread about the suiboku’s polished smooth feel, I’d have thought for sure I received a kasumi. Physically, the smoothness of the two knives’ finish feels identical.

 

[Neutri]

Both are mainline Takada No Hamono (not Tsubaya) editions.

Hey, just out of curiosity, what's the difference between the two?

 

[jacobwilder5]

I thought I’d add a data point here since I just received a suiboku gyuto in blue 2 and a suiboku sujihiki in ginsan this week, and thought the contrast between the two was interesting. Both are mainline Takada No Hamono (not Tsubaya) editions.

The blue 2’s suiboku finish looks very different to the ginsan’s suiboku finish. The ginsan is much more subtle (and hard to photograph). It’s bordering on a mirror finish. If I hadn’t read the comment in this thread about the suiboku’s polished smooth feel, I’d have thought for sure I received a kasumi. Physically, the smoothness of the two knives’ finish feels identical.

This is a great comparison and really puts to bed the difference in finish. Also, it’s interesting how much more pronounced the finish is on carbon vs stainless. It just adds to the mystery of how that suiboku finish is obtained. Either way really nice knives and thanks for sharing.

 

[dehory]

Hey, just out of curiosity, what's the difference between the two?

I still haven’t seen a totally authoritative rundown of the difference (if any). Obviously you get Tsubaya engraved kanji vs the Takada stamp on the show side. I’ve seen experienced KKFers state the two lines are 100% identical beyond the maker’s mark, and then I’ve seen others claim (as in a comment above) the Tsubaya editions have a less detailed finish (or even that they have a slightly thicker grind and lower heel height for the Japanese market). Given the difference in price, the latter could make sense, but I don’t have enough knowledge to say either way.

It just adds to the mystery of how that suiboku finish is obtained.

Yes, it’s definitely quite the mystery seeing the suiboku finish in person. It seems almost behind the “skin” of the metal rather than just being a simple etched surface treatment. I don’t buy the “crumpled rag soaked in acid” theory.