Takamura uchigumo vs tanaka ironwood r2

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ill send my 240 your way if you want to try it. It is not an ironwood, but it is pretty badass
 
Yes. True. I’ve already owned stuff w ironwood handles. Maybe a Mikey handle or 2? I had a Fujiyama from 2012ish wh2 with ironwood handle actually. Didn’t dig it at all.
 
I like ironwood, especially on western handles. Ive made a couple myself using it.

That being said, the tanaka r2 wa knives are superb as well. And the profile pictures are a little missleading, it looks super curvy, but in use is super versatile, kind a how the ys seemed to be too flat, but it really isnt an issue in use.
 
Never had a knife with Ironwood. Seeing Dave Martells spa Hiromotos with stunning simple ironwood western handles made me sorry I sold my spa Hiromoto 240. I used it as a pass around resisted selling it was kind of a show blade. Eventually I let it go. It is impossible to find a Hiromoto to let Dave do his thing.

Now I don't have a show blade that makes students eyes bug out. Was thinking either a Tanaka Ironwood or a rehandled Yoshikane SLD. Both are around the same price for a 240mm.
 
JBroida said:
I'm not sure i would agree with these generalizations... even if we limited our conversation to specifically the takefu knife village (just one group of a number of makers and companies in the area), many of these things still dont ring true. They are most assuredly not geared towards home use, the HRC isn't high compared to other regions in general (though HRC values do get overinflated by retailers and wholesalers... sometimes intentionally sometimes not), not always rounded in the choil shape (its often how customers are ordering from them lately though... not standard for what they do), and not even close to almost always being tsuchime or kurouchi (those things sell well in the west, so thats what wholesalers and retailers out here tend to order).

If you wanted to make an accurate statement about the region (or even just takefu knife village), here are some things that could easily be said:

  • They have a traditional system for stacking 2 blades (i've seen 3 before too, but i think it was just to show off) while forging (hammering), as they believe it is faster and keeps the metal hot longer
  • Their history is in farm tools (sickles and whatnot)
  • They are a major maguro-kiri producing area (not the knife village though)
  • Their heat treatments are often done using namari (though they can also use magnesia salt baths for stainless and powdered steels)
  • Almost all knives are produced from prelaminated stock
  • Distal taper is often created as a function of grind rather than forging (when compared to sanjo)... therefore is often less significant or apparent
  • Finishes are often sandblasted
Click to expand...

Hi John,

Is there a big difference of prelaminated stock vs in house forge weld?
I know it reduces cost but does it reduced heat treatment quality?
is there a big difference of knife who grind the knife with big stone vs 'Sen' scraper? I know those hype expensive knife use sen to grind their knife.

Thanks
 
Keith Sinclair said:
Never had a knife with Ironwood. Seeing Dave Martells spa Hiromotos with stunning simple ironwood western handles made me sorry I sold my spa Hiromoto 240. I used it as a pass around resisted selling it was kind of a show blade. Eventually I let it go. It is impossible to find a Hiromoto to let Dave do his thing.

Now I don't have a show blade that makes students eyes bug out. Was thinking either a Tanaka Ironwood or a rehandled Yoshikane SLD. Both are around the same price for a 240mm.
Click to expand...
JCK has a line thats basically the Hiromoto AS, yo handled with stai less class AS. I talked to Dave about those and it seems that many people asked of he'd give them the same spa treatment, but no one (at least back then) had done it yet. From what I've read they're every bit as good, finished even better. If you're looking for exactly that you can probably get the knife with the Martell works for a lot less than either two, no?
 
Dave's thinning made those Hiromoto cut as good as they looked.

What is the name of the line at JCK?

I have a nice handle to put on the Yoshikane SKD. It would be a looker

Then you know me love Tanaka the nashiji esp. The higher end ironwood Damascus is a looker. Like the dropped heel handle. Mostly performance over looks bang for the buck guy . Never really bought a high end Damascus blade.
 
From the Deep Impact I only know the 210 gyuto and 150 petty. From the figures I expect the 240 to be thicker, but whether that's behind the edge I don't know — yet.
AS much harder than with the Hiromotos, and with a much finer grain. No brittleness at all. Very thin behind the edge. With a conservative edge, amongst the very rare to resist a crappy poly board without any trace of damage.
Micarta handle. Fit&Finish OK, not spectacular, usual little work for rounding spine and choil needed.
The lamination pattern isn't as spectacular as with the Hiromotos.
And the need of severe thinning doesn't apply as it did so often with the Hiromotos.
 
I don’t understand how you guys judge a knife if you haven’t even used it. The profile of the handle is really nice. One of my faves. But it’s all personal preference.
 
Thanks I have seen those. Part of their nature series. Looks like chisel kañji not like stamped Hiro. The clad line looks similar of coarse thiniñg process brings it out more.
 
Benuser said:
From the Deep Impact I only know the 210 gyuto and 150 petty. From the figures I expect the 240 to be thicker, but whether that's behind the edge I don't know — yet.
AS much harder than with the Hiromotos, and with a much finer grain. No brittleness at all. Very thin behind the edge. With a conservative edge, amongst the very rare to resist a crappy poly board without any trace of damage.
Micarta handle. Fit&Finish OK, not spectacular, usual little work for rounding spine and choil needed.
The lamination pattern isn't as spectacular as with the Hiromotos.
And the need of severe thinning doesn't apply as it did so often with the Hiromotos.
Click to expand...
Thanks for this review Benuser.

I'm curious: when you say that it's finer grained than the Hiromoto AS, are you assessing this by sharpening feel, by the maximum sharpness/keeness that you can achieve or by some other measure?
 
Nemo said:
Thanks for this review Benuser.

I'm curious: when you say that it's finer grained than the Hiromoto AS, are you assessing this by sharpening feel, by the maximum sharpness/keeness that you can achieve or by some other measure?
Click to expand...
Sharp! No, I can't measure it, have no EM proof. Feeling on the stone, edge stability, as meant by Roman Langes, and much easier deburring with very keen edges.
 
Benuser said:
Sharp! No, I can't measure it, have no EM proof. Feeling on the stone, edge stability, as meant by Roman Langes, and much easier deburring with very keen edges.
Click to expand...
Thanks. I thought this was what you were referring to but I wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something.
 
zizirex said:
Hi John,

Is there a big difference of prelaminated stock vs in house forge weld?
I know it reduces cost but does it reduced heat treatment quality?
is there a big difference of knife who grind the knife with big stone vs 'Sen' scraper? I know those hype expensive knife use sen to grind their knife.

Thanks
Click to expand...
Honestly, in terms of performance, there is no real appreciable or significant difference in the vast majority of cases. It still possible to heat treat things like this extremely well.


In terms of grinding a knife with a big wheel versus a sen, there are strengths and weaknesses to each style and I would not go as far as to say that one is objectively better than the other. I think a lot of the hype has to do with the fact that it is entirely done by hand in a painstaking and difficult manner. Compelling stories sell things just as much is the product itself being good. Sometimes more. (I dont mean that to be an insult directed towards anyone or any specific products... just a realistic view on the effects of marketing)
 
zizirex said:
Hi John,

Is there a big difference of prelaminated stock vs in house forge weld?
Click to expand...

I would say forgewelding and heattreatment are definitely aspects of knifemaking where you are better off with precise modern industrial process rather than traditional methods.
 
Eloh said:
I would say forgewelding and heattreatment are definitely aspects of knifemaking where you are better off with precise modern industrial process rather than traditional methods.
Click to expand...

I’ve always been curious about this too. I see videos of Murray Carter (and presumably many others) gauging temp during heat treat by looking at how water droplets behave when they hit the blade. Is there not a better, modern way to do this in a small scale operation? I mean, if it’s not broke... but just curious. I’d be willing to lend him my Thermapen: haven’t checked how high it reads, but I assume it’ll work. Those things are amazing... ;)
 
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Great Great knife, if someone is interested in those 210mm or 270mm. No problem dealing with: https://www.1couteaujaponais.eu/KATSUHIRO/KatsuhiroJapaneseKnives.php
 
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