Thoughts on tip sharing

[M1k3]

Rune and feather makers marks are really cool also

 

[jacko9]

There are too many states that "assume" that wait staff earn so much in tips that they reduce the minimum wage to those people. The whole system sucks but, there is no easy answer unless somebody can figure out how to make a living wage work.

 

[juice]

but, there is no easy answer unless somebody can figure out how to make a living wage work.

Works decently in first-world countries.

 

[Luftmensch]

I'm not sure that this is the still case.

When the EFTPOS terminal isn't connected to the register you can see the person key in the value then hit enter twice. Between the two is a prompt for tip amount (you can see the label when they only hit enter once)

Sure... tipping on EFTPOS is easy. The system accommodates it.

Go back 20 years... if you had a lunch/dinner with friends you were more likely to pay in physical currency than you are now. If the meal was $27.60 per head, it was common for the group to round up to the nearest note, in this case $30. The restaurant would then get a tip of $2.40 per head. This saved the party from buggering about with small change.

Now you can just ask the restaurant to divide by 'N' and each tap your card. You can still tip!!!

But my original point was that even this has been bypassed in the gig economy. I don't use Uber etc... but as I understand it, you enter your card details once, order a car and it just 'magically' appears. You get in the car and get out at your destination. The transaction is automatic and happens in the background. You don't have to think about it... just poke some pixels representing a button on a screen. Same with food delivery services.... I know if there is an option to tip on these platforms?? Is there?? I wouldnt be surprised if they wanted a cut of that money if they allowed for it...

 

[Luftmensch]

I'm actually in Canada and in this situation, staff are paid competitive wages.

Apologies for the assumption!

for this discussion, foh/boh staff are already paid good competitive wages

That is good to hear. It doesnt change the equity of distribution though. A wise man once said:

BoH needs FoH.
FoH needs BoH.

Splitting by hours worked seems fair...

I also live in Canada. Tips are very much expected here.

This is juicy... which is it? Expected or not? I have not been to Canada yet. I would love to visit. Is it a west-coast, east-coast thing?

 

[Luftmensch]

Generally very good service down here (that I've experienced) without tipping, so maybe it's culture.

In fact... the oracle says as much:

In countries such as Australia and Japan where tips are not given, the service is found to be as good as in America.[10]

Its on the internet... it must be true... right...

 

[user 16756]

rofl imagine being Thomas Keller and hearing a bunch of people who will never eat in your restaurants call you names.

my ego would grow SO much.

 

[Tony]

I also live in Canada. Tips are very much expected here. Servers are the only workers in my province that can be paid below minimum wage. At the end of the day, they still make more money than the cooks because of tips.

Our card reader terminals have tips options on screen before the customer can pay. There are preset buttons for 15%, 20%, 25%, “other amount” or “no tip”. Customers will not be treated as well on their next visit if they choose not to tip. This is common in all restaurants here.

Our kitchen staff get a tip-out equal to 3% of sales, split among the BoH according to number of hours worked. The servers must pay this amount into the kitchen pool regardless of how much they made in tips. (They always make more) If a table does not tip, the server must still pay out 3% of the bill to the kitchen pool and would lose money on that table, but this is very uncommon. Other restaurants that I have worked in did 2%.

We continue to have dine-in service here, despite covid, but take-out business has increased dramatically.

Must be a different province thing

Point of sale machines here have tip options too but it's usually %, Amount or okay to continue. Some places might have a tip jar

I'm not sure servers could afford to pay out 3% of sales here I don't think they consistently make more than that at least in the places I know

 

[Tony]

Apologies for the assumption!



That is good to hear. It doesnt change the equity of distribution though. A wise man once said:



Splitting by hours worked seems fair...




This is juicy... which is it? Expected or not? I have not been to Canada yet. I would love to visit. Is it a west-coast, east-coast thing?

I think so the west coast is very different than the east coast

 

[YumYumSauce]

In fact... the oracle says as much:



Its on the internet... it must be true... right...

Almost any service in Japan is probably way better than the US. And if you try to tip, they'll chase after you and tell you you left your change.

 

[Alwayzbakin]

This topic comes at the right time for me.
I always resented the way it worked from a cooks perspective here. I moved overseas for 8 years. Australia, NZ, HK, I would leave tips at fine restaurants because I was still a confused American, but most of the time I realised it was not part of the culture. I certainly never received tips in the BOH anywhere there. It made me resent the US system even more.

I moved back to the us and compared my wife’s paychecks at 30hrs/week in FOH to mine at 55-60 in the BOH... I made the decision to end my 15 years cooking and switch teams. No matter how much I love cooking I just cant justify it anymore.

 

[YumYumSauce]

Does anyone (besides restaurant owners) actually like the U.S. mandatory tip culture?

Strippers? Vegas is probably different but I know a friend of a friend whos a server, drives an nsx, rocks an audumars piguet. I heard valets were making 80k 15 yrs ago.

 

[YumYumSauce]

rofl imagine being Thomas Keller and hearing a bunch of people who will never eat in your restaurants call you names.

my ego would grow SO much.

I dont think I saw anyone mention him here. I respect the hell out of what he's done but wasnt he asking for donations to pay HIS employees a little while ago? There's a bit more I could say but not sure if it's in good taste.

 

[user 16756]

I dont think I saw anyone mention him here. I respect the hell out of what he's done but wasnt he asking for donations to pay HIS employees a little while ago? There's a bit more I could say but not sure if it's in good taste.

Sorry, I was responding to link in someone's post, which was about the melt down people were having when Keller did away with tipping at Per Se.

I personally have this perception that the people saying that are likely people with zero taste, who wouldn't eat at the restaurant anyway, just teeing up on a New York place with a California chef. Ive lived all around the US and the jealously of what those two places have culturally is immense.

As far as paying your workers during covid, if you're doing zero covers and you have as many people on staff as him, I doubt even he has enough to bankroll that. I will grant the man is certainly quite rich but that kind of thing adds up quickly. Is it ok for music venues to do it and not him? What about bands with tour crews? I dunno Im trying to not judge too much on that front; it's not like when Amazon did it despite remaining opening, spreading covid by staying open, having their stock price rocket by over 30% in six month, continuing to have above average revenue streams, etc.

 

[mpier]

I remember when I was a kid my dad telling me the amount you tip was for how good the food was and how good the service was, there was no set percentage. Now of course there is a certain percentage you need to give them or you look like a cheap skate, or they just add it to your bill and you have to pay it which kinda undermines the hole intended purpose. When I bussed and cleaned dishes at a restaurant in my youth I would bust ass for the servers only to get a couple of extra bucks while they toke home a couple of hundred. I found the hole thing totally unfair that we as customers need to put down a percentage but servers do not need to give a percentage to those who make it happen on there end. My wife and I go to a Sushi restaurant every Friday a small mom and pops type, there I can tip the server and they have a jar we can tip the kitchen as well that’s the way it should be.

 

[Twigg]

If someone serves me food in a restaurant, they are getting a decent tip, unless there are extraordinary circumstances. The public sucks in general and waiters and waitresses have to put up with a lot of BS. They deal with all types, self important asswipe influencers, Kardashian wannabes, salesman that think the world revolves around them, etc. and good decent people that understand that it is hard work to serve people. I do think that the BoH should get a taste of the action too.

Also, always tip your barber.

 

[Luftmensch]

I moved back to the us and compared my wife’s paychecks at 30hrs/week in FOH to mine at 55-60 in the BOH... I made the decision to end my 15 years cooking and switch teams. No matter how much I love cooking I just cant justify it anymore.

That sucks... sorry to hear it. Out of interest... was the FOH/BOH pay difference in AU/NZ/HK the reverse? I am not part of the industry but I imagine work in the kitchen is considered higher skilled and paid at a higher rate? Certainly as a chef? If tips are taken out of the equation, wouldn't that favour BOH?

 

[Alwayzbakin]

That sucks... sorry to hear it. Out of interest... was the FOH/BOH pay difference in AU/NZ/HK the reverse? I am not part of the industry but I imagine work in the kitchen is considered higher skilled and paid at a higher rate? Certainly as a chef? If tips are taken out of the equation, wouldn't that favour BOH?

I’m not too sure about FOH take home in AU/HK; in those two countries I had jobs that paid relatively well compared to elsewhere, although I think i just happened to find high paying restaurants in those places.
In New Zealand I can say it did seem like the opposite of here based on my experience and what I knew from wife/friends. FOH got minimum wage (not too bad in Auckland though) or a couple dollars more and often kitchen a dollar or two above that. Because of the difference in hours and the low frequency of tips, BOH makes more money there (again, from what I saw)

 

[Midsummer]

Why should it be an option to pay someone for their work? Why should I have to do a math problem at the end of my meal after I have eaten well and had a good bottle of wine? Just charge me one fee. Or maybe I should tip FOH, BOH, Janitor, fish monger.....Perhaps I should arrange Christmas presents and child care.

I spend my day thinking of other peoples problems; why would I pay to go out to where I need to be concerned that the workers are getting a decent wage. What an idiotic system!!!!!!

 

[user 16756]

Why should it be an option to pay someone for their work? Why should I have to do a math problem at the end of my meal after I have eaten well and had a good bottle of wine? Just charge me one fee. Or maybe I should tip FOH, BOH, Janitor, fish monger.....Perhaps I should arrange Christmas presents and child care.

I spend my day thinking of other peoples problems; why would I pay to go out to where I need to be concerned that the workers are getting a decent wage. What an idiotic system!!!!!!

it's really, really, really hard for me to imagine I would be ok with clients deciding if I deserved full pay when the majority of them hadnt even made it to high school calculus. I work out a wage with people who have a lot of knowledge of the market, what I'm doing, what it's like to work with me day after day, etc. I agree to do work, I do an adequate job and I stay employed.

the reason I tip even when I think waitstaff sucks is that they're doing their job. Id rather pay full price and leave a complaint, than stiff someone.

just charge how much it costs. I really, really despise living in a world where Im always having to check if Im getting the whole discount, playing ring around the ****ing rosie with idiotic sales taxes that sometimes I pay and sometimes I don't, the mindgames at car dealers, and having to figure out how much stuff really costs at a restaurant (because Im not stupid enough to believe it's the number written on the menu if the staff is getting paid about 3.50 an hour)

Im with you Midsummer, let's nuke all this dumb **** and while we're at it take the imperial measuring system, recipes by volume and daylight savings time and put them in the trash like we have some semblance of a civilization over here.

 

[Luftmensch]

it's really, really, really hard for me to imagine I would be ok with clients deciding if I deserved full pay when the majority of them hadnt even made it to high school calculus. I work out a wage with people who have a lot of knowledge of the market, what I'm doing, what it's like to work with me day after day, etc. I agree to do work, I do an adequate job and I stay employed.

the reason I tip even when I think waitstaff sucks is that they're doing their job. Id rather pay full price and leave a complaint, than stiff someone.

just charge how much it costs. I really, really despise living in a world where Im always having to check if Im getting the whole discount, playing ring around the ****ing rosie with idiotic sales taxes that sometimes I pay and sometimes I don't, the mindgames at car dealers, and having to figure out how much stuff really costs at a restaurant (because Im not stupid enough to believe it's the number written on the menu if the staff is getting paid about 3.50 an hour)

Im with you Midsummer, let's nuke all this dumb **** and while we're at it take the imperial measuring system, recipes by volume and daylight savings time and put them in the trash like we have some semblance of a civilization over here.

Whoa!!!! I was with you 100% until daylight savings

But perhaps that depends on what your intentions are. I am an evening person and love having long evenings after work in summer. I hate it when that is 'stolen' from us in winter and it is dark by the time I get home from work.... Now... if they could just permanently make it daylight savings.... sure


I forgot about the (state-patchwork) sales tax thing... yeah... that is insane. Just put the actual cost at the register on the damned menu!!

 

[Luftmensch]

I’m not too sure about FOH take home in AU/HK; in those two countries I had jobs that paid relatively well compared to elsewhere, although I think i just happened to find high paying restaurants in those places.
In New Zealand I can say it did seem like the opposite of here based on my experience and what I knew from wife/friends. FOH got minimum wage (not too bad in Auckland though) or a couple dollars more and often kitchen a dollar or two above that. Because of the difference in hours and the low frequency of tips, BOH makes more money there (again, from what I saw)

Thanks for the reply!

Good to hear... that is how I would imagine it is in AU/NZ.... and as @Dull_Apex was saying if tips are given, they are more likely to be electronic - so they don't necessarily immediately make it into the pockets of FOH.

Australia and New Zealand's 'shame' is that we have the largest temporary migrant workforces in the developed world per capita. It is good for the consumer (and business) but it is effectively a way of keeping wages low. This is bad for the wages and conditions of domestic workers where it is common. Fortunately our minimum wage is closer to a living wage - only a dollar or two short.

 

[juice]

But guys, then the people running the business would have to do hard stuff like work out how to actually run a business. Can't have that.

Just put the actual cost at the register on the damned menu!!

And it's illegal down here to not do that, but I guess that means we've got no FREEDUMS or we're communists or something.

Fortunately our minimum wage is closer to a living wage - only a dollar or two short.

Yeah, that's a pretty important caveat, that one.

 

[Luftmensch]

And it's illegal down here to not do that

Absolutely. Dead simple.

America can be a bit bewildering as an international tourist.... and dare I say it... it might even be a little bewildering for a domestic traveller.

Yeah, that's a pretty important caveat, that one.

Definitely. I dont mean to diminish it.

I had a look at this before posting. It was about a dollary-doo in difference. That surprised me. It really depends on what 'living income' means. In the article I read, it was defined as 60% of the median income. The definition was derived from a British target. One imbalance with that definition is that it is blurred across all cities. The living costs in a city like Sydney or Melbourne are much, much higher than... say... Toowoomba (sorry Toowoomba). That means the quality of life on a 60% national median income in Sydney/Melbourne might not feel like a 'living income'. Similarly that amount of income in Toowoomba might feel more luxurious. Maybe this is ok - it might be a minor incentive to decentralise our capital cities...

 

[juice]

Maybe this is ok - it might be a minor incentive to decentralise our capital cities...

Yeah, we're moving out of Melbourne in a couple of months.

 

[Colin]

FOH should receive the tips (to make up for the fact they get $2.13/hr). BOH should get paid more per hour than minimum wage, but should not receive tips.

 

[M1k3]

FOH should receive the tips (to make up for the fact they get $2.13/hr). BOH should get paid more per hour than minimum wage, but should not receive tips.

There's places like the City of L.A. where tipped and non-tipped still have the same minimum wage. There's a patchwork of how it's handled in different states, counties and cities.

 

[Travis petosa]

I've worked in tipless and tipped restaurants. Tipless in CA... the restaurant no longer exists. For an independent restaurant to operate on liveable and decent wages it's extremely hard to do without tipping. In a city like LA where the cost of living is higher it's near impossible. I worked out some pretty decent numbers trying to get that restaurant to work and came up with a pretty fair system and take some of the pressure off the business and puts more money in peoples pockets.
No pooled tips, keep what you're tipped.
every FoH pays out 7% of tips to the BoH crew based on hours they have worked.
I cant remember the exact numbers I was getting on paycheck with the system but it was the best of both worlds IMO, servers earn their pay individually and BoH get a little extra(i think it was an average of a 2$ bump an hour).

Places like LA are very weird in their labor laws, for example if you are a BoH employee you are not entitled to any tips unless you have a forward facing work place i.e. you interact with the customers. Often times this ***** over the BoH employee being stuck to minimum wage because thats all most restaurants can afford to operate at.

 

[M1k3]

I've worked in tipless and tipped restaurants. Tipless in CA... the restaurant no longer exists. For an independent restaurant to operate on liveable and decent wages it's extremely hard to do without tipping. In a city like LA where the cost of living is higher it's near impossible. I worked out some pretty decent numbers trying to get that restaurant to work and came up with a pretty fair system and take some of the pressure off the business and puts more money in peoples pockets.
No pooled tips, keep what you're tipped.
every FoH pays out 7% of tips to the BoH crew based on hours they have worked.
I cant remember the exact numbers I was getting on paycheck with the system but it was the best of both worlds IMO, servers earn their pay individually and BoH get a little extra(i think it was an average of a 2$ bump an hour).

Places like LA are very weird in their labor laws, for example if you are a BoH employee you are not entitled to any tips unless you have a forward facing work place i.e. you interact with the customers. Often times this ***** over the BoH employee being stuck to minimum wage because thats all most restaurants can afford to operate at.

Los Angeles and California in general allow tip pooling, minus Management (basically anyone able to hire and fire).