Watanabe - experience?

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Just received my 2 knives from Watanabe ... wow, that was FAST! I am always looking for unique shapes to add to my small collection. Not there yet to buy the 29th different 240 mm Gyuto ... but I am sure I will at one point LOL. Bought a slicer (jungle shape off of the specials section) and a Mukimono Petty ... both rather uncommon shapes IMHO, so I went for those. First inspection: The finish on the Slicer is pretty rough, almost looks like the Kurouchi finish has chipped off in one place, and it looks like there might be a bit of a (rather good looking) blueish Patina right below the Kurouchi on one side.... Nothing major, I like the rustic look and it has a burnt chestnut handle as well.
 
Also got a couple of Watanabe recently, a pro petty and pro mukimono. Both were a bit rougher in their finish than I'd anticipated, and compared to the 210 pro gyuto I'd ordered before. The polish on the mukimono wasn't special, but about what is reasonable for Y15,000 or so. Haven't sharpened it. The petty is quite wavy - reminds me of KU Itonimon I've received, but not as bad as them - with the low/high bits hidden by the blasted finish. (Forget the name of the thing used for this. Someone has written about it before, and I think it works like sand-blasting would.)

Someone asked about weights before: my 210 pro gyuto with keyaki handle as measured on a so-so scale is 200 gm or slightly above that. Just a great-feeling knife to me.
 
Asteger said:
Both were a bit rougher in their finish than I'd anticipated, and compared to the 210 pro gyuto I'd ordered before. The polish on the mukimono wasn't special, but about what is reasonable for Y15,000 or so.
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yeah, absolutely ... and if they cut well, I don't mind at this price point. I think I paid 28,000 total for Mukimono with upgraded handle and the slicer. If I like them I might get a pro Nakiri down the road, I think.
 
I think the prices are quite reasonable, considering the quality, even remembering that he raised prices recently. (A few months back.) Has to be an advantage of buying directly from the maker rather than vendors, which is a great thing. On the other hand, he charges too much for handles and saya. I presume he outsources this, but doesn't offer the best deal to his buyers.
 
1+
the reason why I only went for handle but not saya
 
And the fact the blade and the handle are not straight gives this sensation to have a kind of "magic finger" like I have with some other Katos and Shigefusa that aren't totally straight too.
When I pick just after another knife that is straight the cutting feels less natural and hurts the hand a bit more.
 
nutmeg said:
I don't find the sayas to be that expensive, they are really well made.
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Good to know the quality's good. But they are expensive in Japanese terms, I think. He seems to charge about Y10,000 for saya, but good handle/saya makers will do them for a lot less.
 
dear lord!
10,000 jpy for a saya and 7,000 for a decent handle!?
That's way up there
 
TheDispossessed said:
dear lord!
10,000 jpy for a saya and 7,000 for a decent handle!?
That's way up there
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It comes with a decent handle at no charge...and while custom knife makers around here happen to do nice woodworking, I believe Shinichi to be specifically a knife maker. I think that's why he can crank out so many knives while the custom makers here have so much lower output.
 
Depends on what you get. With the Pro line for example, not all come with ho/buffalo. Just got a petty with ho/plastic. Actually, the handle is fine and functional, but none of us likes plastic. I think Dispossessed was right above, that a ho/buffalo would be a Y7000 upgrade. In my case, I'll just be removing the plastic one and installing an ebony/ho handle that cost me less.
 
I don't know about the petties, but the pro series gyuto still comes with a horn ferrule as of a couple of months ago. It really didn't matter because once I cut with it there was no doubt it was a keeper--I sent it to Mikey and now not only does it cut well it looks and feels perfect imo.

I guess it's just a personal thing (and I too hate plastic) but if I plan on keeping a knife then I'm "ditching the ho" :)
 
... I'm thinking: if there were a 'Gesshin Watanabe' line or if Watanabe were given some other endorsement, or sold from JNS etc, KKFers would be all over them even more. Bravo to Watanabe for continuing to do it so well on their own.
 
I have three Watanabes, all purchased around 2008. A 270 pro gyuto (beast) a 240 pro gyuto with his special handle, and a 210 honyaki gyuto with a Stefan handle via Dave Martell.

The beast is great for making pesto - only time I use it, but I like pesto. I regarded the 240 as my best gyuto, until I started getting Katos, Heiji, Hide, etc. Still very nice, especially since I thinned it, sandpapered it, and waxed the handle. The honyaki is as close to a perfect knife as I own.

"Sin" is a great guy. Wish I could get more knives from him, but I have all of his I want for now...
 
Ger, if Watanabe partnered with a JNS or some other, I fear the result would be the kind of shortage situation we see with Genetsu, Konosuke, Shigefusa, etc.The great thing about Watanabe is that he is one of the few factory direct sellers who maintains really good quality. He makes to the global standard, not the local standard for his export sales...
 
designdog said:
Ger, if Watanabe partnered with a JNS or some other, I fear the result would be the kind of shortage situation we see with Genetsu, Konosuke, Shigefusa, etc.The great thing about Watanabe is that he is one of the few factory direct sellers who maintains really good quality. He makes to the global standard, not the local standard for his export sales...
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Hmm, I don't know if he would apply different standards if only selling to Japanese, although he'd probably end up making far fewer gyuto. But yes, he's a different sort of maker for sure. He's got some English ability, he obviously was on the internet selling his knives (in Japan and abroad) directly at an early stage, and seems to like this connection with customers and can manage it. I've met a few makers and this wouldn't be their thing at all - messing with the internet, dealing with customers in this way, and especially foreigners who know no Japanese and probably have some odd requests and unpredictable reactions. Very non-traditional stuff, there would be too many uncertainties, and they'd lack the skills. The older makers don't seem too educated, in fact. Watanabe, in comparison, seems a lot more 'worldly'. Lucky for us.
 
I believe that Watanabe, at one time, either did or came close to becoming a "to go" product.
 
Based on my experience buying directly from the Japanese manufacturer, and communicating with them, I have come to conclude that the knife bought in Japan is different that that bought here from importers. Perhaps more knowledge means a bias to function versus appearance. I think that the Jons of the world do us a service by setting standards beyond the local Japanese market. Part of the reason they can charge more!

Watanabe has his share of plastic ferrules and I recall reading about some returning his knife for an issue. The point is he knows what it takes to succeed in the export market, and puts his pride, or, in the case of others perhaps, ignorance, aside and gives the export customer a pretty good batting average.

That said, his knives are not very sexy, and he has not expanded his product line that much...
 
designdog said:
That said, his knives are not very sexy, and he has not expanded his product line that much...
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I guess sexy is in the eye of the beholder...sometimes all it takes is some new shoes:)

As to the product line, I guess I'm not sure what he could be expected to add. My impression is that it appears too expansive as is...of course I'm just looking at gyutos no matter where I shop so maybe that's on me.
 
I always had the most exceptional impression of watanabe knifes.

He works fast , communicates rather well directly and also makes good workhorse knifes. I believe watanabe just fell on the wayside while other makers came forward more during years past . Also users started favoring thinner knives from makers like Tadatsuna and later Konosuke (lasers).

My experience with watanabe was a blue gyuto in Blue n1 that the guy that introduced me to the original knife forums family had.

It was very sharp and unicorn like. It was made with Blue steel according to him blue n1 which was something he stopped doing. I didn't seem to believe that fact but then it also came with an octagon handle with horn ferrule that watanabe stopped doing as an option that i know it to be a fact .

Dave is correct about the To go product . I believe he made a batch of knives for him but that was it .Shinichi still sells direct and i think it works well for him as a small knife maker and his family

Dave is also correct about his cheaper "home" line. If you go ,Skip the basic and go pro and if you got the $$$$ go Kintaroame.
 
Asteger said:
Hmm, I don't know if he would apply different standards if only selling to Japanese, although he'd probably end up making far fewer gyuto. But yes, he's a different sort of maker for sure. He's got some English ability, he obviously was on the internet selling his knives (in Japan and abroad) directly at an early stage, and seems to like this connection with customers and can manage it. I've met a few makers and this wouldn't be their thing at all - messing with the internet, dealing with customers in this way, and especially foreigners who know no Japanese and probably have some odd requests and unpredictable reactions. Very non-traditional stuff, there would be too many uncertainties, and they'd lack the skills. The older makers don't seem too educated, in fact. Watanabe, in comparison, seems a lot more 'worldly'. Lucky for us.
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For me the story behind a knife and the history of Japanese makers is an important part of the knife ... I really loved communicating with Watanabe, as I bought one of his knives from the specials section, a rather uniquely "jungle style" shaped slicer, and he explained the idea and story behind the knife, talked about the rough fit and finish (and boy is it rough, imperfect is a kind way of describing it - but it's crazy sharp and just works like a charm).

I also communicated with Fujiwara and ordered straight from him, not as extended of a conversation, still nice though. Currently in contact with Shiba from shibaknives.com (I think he's also the sharpener for Masakage knives). That is more work related though, still loving it. He doesn't sell directly, asked me to buy through DC sharp or to go :(
 
I've met him twice in person, once at the Oregon Knife show and once at Blade in Atlanta. Nice guy. I bought knives off of him both places. He even chiseled my name on a Wa-Deba I bought. Just wish he could make the trip over here more often but I'm sure it is hard to sell enough knives to really make it worthwhile.
 
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