Which 180mm Ginsan Santoku ?

[ayumi_ishida]

So , adding on to a couple of recent posts , https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/ohishi-ginsan.73758/#post-1147471 and https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/...ijin-santoku-165mm-us-237.73598/#post-1147196 , and as the title says , I'm looking for a 180mm Ginsan Santoku .
Home cook doing simple prep .
Either Wa or Yo .
I want to try the 180mm size and also try Ginsan .
Looking for a step up from the Ohishi . I think a Nakagawa is too advanced ; so something in between .
Suggested knives from the other threads are sold out or out of stock .
I may just get the Ohishi but for the moment the search continues .

 

[MittenMan]

So , adding on to a couple of recent posts , https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/ohishi-ginsan.73758/#post-1147471 and https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/...ijin-santoku-165mm-us-237.73598/#post-1147196 , and as the title says , I'm looking for a 180mm Ginsan Santoku .
Home cook doing simple prep .
Either Wa or Yo .
I want to try the 180mm size and also try Ginsan .
Looking for a step up from the Ohishi . I think a Nakagawa is too advanced ; so something in between .
Suggested knives from the other threads are sold out or out of stock .
I may just get the Ohishi but for the moment the search continues .

What do you feel makes a Nakagawa knife too advanced? Him and Yamatsuka are known for their ginsan, and would likely be your most common suggestions if going this route.

 

[ayumi_ishida]

What do you feel makes a Nakagawa knife too advanced? Him and Yamatsuka are known for their ginsan, and would likely be your most common suggestions if going this route.

Maybe I misread the knife product description on one website but got the impression they are easily damaged .
Also , they're priced a bit higher than I want to spend .

 

[aporigine]

Maybe I misread the description but got the impression they are easily damaged .
Also , they're priced a bit higher than I want to spend .

With a Nakagawa or a Tadokoro ginsan, you’re assured of top quality in both forging and sharpening (which includes setting the grind.)

The only question is if that grind is in your sweet spot. Lasers and workhorses have different merits, and the choice is one of preference.

I’d approach this as the purchase of a knife you’ll use for decades to come. Only you know if you’d rather get your groceries in a Dodge Charger or an E63 Benz. (With a welcome absence of insurance and repair costs!)

https://bernalcutlery.com/products/tadokoro-180mm-santoku-ginsanko-nakagawa-teak

 

[ayumi_ishida]

With a Nakagawa or a Tadokoro ginsan, you’re assured of top quality in both forging and sharpening (which includes setting the grind.)

The only question is if that grind is in your sweet spot. Lasers and workhorses have different merits, and the choice is one of preference.

I’d approach this as the purchase of a knife you’ll use for decades to come. Only you know if you’d rather get your groceries in a Dodge Charger or an E63 Benz. (With a welcome absence of insurance and repair costs!)

https://bernalcutlery.com/products/tadokoro-180mm-santoku-ginsanko-nakagawa-teak

looking for a workhorse

 

[tostadas]

I have a heiji 180mm semistainless santoku that's on the beefier side and well within your budget. Shoot me a pm if you're interested.

 

[aporigine]

looking for a workhorse

The one I linked probably qualifies, looking at thickness and weight.

 

[pavhav]

I tend to dislike WH knives under 210mm, (with the exception of a 2019 Mazaki that really tapers well in both directions), so please take my suggestions with a grain of salt, but these two seem appealing to me. (I don't have either).

https://knifejapan.com/moriya-munemitsu-kuchigane-santoku-180mm-gingami-3-stainless-steel/

I'd imagine they do the steel HT well.

And the Kanehide PS60 Santoku 180mm at CK to go. (Or elsewhere).

Both seem like effective, well executed, low maintenance knives.

 

[ayumi_ishida]

So , Sakai Takayuki Ginsan Damascus Yasuki Silver #3 Stainless Santoku , by Mr. Yamatsuka .
Is it a laser or workhorse ?

 

[plantgainz]

So , Sakai Takayuki Ginsan Damascus Yasuki Silver #3 Stainless Santoku , by Mr. Yamatsuka .
Is it a laser or workhorse ?

Workhorse

 

[Blumbo]

So , Sakai Takayuki Ginsan Damascus Yasuki Silver #3 Stainless Santoku , by Mr. Yamatsuka .
Is it a laser or workhorse ?

I have one of these! Love the knife but its fit and finish left a bit to be desired - it’s really comfortable now with a polished spine and choil and it’s one of my primary drivers

 

[Justinv]

The Sakai Takayuki Ginsan santokus I found were 2mm spine and one with a 3mm spine. None of those are workhorses. 2mm=laser and 3mm=midweight. If you have a link to a particular offering please share for better comments.

 

[ayumi_ishida]

Excuse me , I meant Midweight .
The one I'm looking at had no specs online but the merchant said 3mm .

 

[Benuser]

The Sakai Takayuki Ginsan santokus I found were 2mm spine and one with a 3mm spine. None of those are workhorses. 2mm=laser and 3mm=midweight. If you have a link to a particular offering please share for better comments.

Not willing to reopen discussions about workhorses and lasers, but the spine isn't the most essential criteria, I'd say. Better look at the grind. I've enough blades with a 2mm spine which are rather robust, and 3mm with very little meat left. If you want figures, use a caliper and see where the 5 and 10mm are found all along the blade.

 

[ayumi_ishida]

I see there's a non damascus ebony handle version also , Sakai Takayuki Ginsan

 

[Benuser]

I see there's a non damascus ebony handle version also , Sakai Takayuki Ginsan

What a beauty!

 

[ayumi_ishida]

What a beauty!

Yeah , now I want this version but can't find one available .
I see it on a couple of sites for $349 , $360 vs. $299 , but out of stock .

 

[ayumi_ishida]

gyuto version

 

[bradmacmt]

So , Sakai Takayuki Ginsan Damascus Yasuki Silver #3 Stainless Santoku , by Mr. Yamatsuka .
Is it a laser or workhorse ?

Not really a Santoku, more of a stubby Gyuto - looks a bit short in the heel too.

 

[ayumi_ishida]

Not really a Santoku, more of a stubby Gyuto - looks a bit short in the heel too.

180mm / 45mm

Which santoku do you like ?

 

[bradmacmt]

180mm / 45mm

Which santoku do you like ?

Yes - 45mm for 180mm is too short for my taste (ie, not tall enough). A lot of short length Chef Knives/Gyutos are marketed as Santokus, even though I think they're actually Gyutos. A Santoku should have a very pronounced point drop, and should have at a minimum a 1/3 flat spot at the back. The Sakai Takayuki you posted is almost identical in shape to my Toyama Gyuto's. But of course, it's really about what you like, not what the knife is being marketed as.

I have a Watanabe 51mm x 169 Santoku. I had a Toyama 54 x 183 but I didn't love it (I'm not an iron clad guy). I'm still looking for a 54mm+ x 180mm+ in Blue no2., stainless clad, but will happily continue to use my Kikamori Bunka (55 x 188) if I don't find my unicorn Santoku (probably the Wakui Blue No.2 Nashiji when available again). The Toyama 180mm is a classic shaped Japanese Santoku (see attached photo), and is what my ideal shaped Santoku looks like - tallish with a big flat spot and very pronounced drop point. 180mm is my favorite knife length too.

Your Santoku posts inspired me to look at stainless, and in particular Ginsan Santoku's. My wife has a 49x180 Shun Santoku, and I'd like to get her something other than VG10 (which I don't like - I do the sharpening). She could care less and is hard on knives, so the purchase is really about what I want lol. Her go-to knife is a tiny 40x154 Shun Chef Knife. It pains me to watch her use that knife, but again, she could care less. What I've been searching for to give her is a 45-50 x 165-170 Santoku in a quality SS that isn't VG10. I'd prefer a western handle in Micarta or Pakkawood because she's a knife barbarian. I haven't really settled on anything yet, and am still gathering an education on various stainless steels.

 

[ayumi_ishida]

Yes - 45mm for 180mm is too short for my taste (ie, not tall enough). A lot of short length Chef Knives/Gyutos are marketed as Santokus, even though I think they're actually Gyutos. A Santoku should have a very pronounced point drop, and should have at a minimum a 1/3 flat spot at the back. The Sakai Takayuki you posted is almost identical in shape to my Toyama Gyuto's. But of course, it's really about what you like, not what the knife is being marketed as.

I have a Watanabe 51mm x 169 Santoku. I had a Toyama 54 x 183 but I didn't love it (I'm not an iron clad guy). I'm still looking for a 54mm+ x 180mm+ in Blue no2., stainless clad, but will happily continue to use my Kikamori Bunka (55 x 188) if I don't find my unicorn Santoku (probably the Wakui Blue No.2 Nashiji when available again). The Toyama 180mm is a classic shaped Japanese Santoku (see attached photo), and is what my ideal shaped Santoku looks like - tallish with a big flat spot and very pronounced drop point. 180mm is my favorite knife length too.

Your Santoku posts inspired me to look at stainless, and in particular Ginsan Santoku's. My wife has a 49x180 Shun Santoku, and I'd like to get her something other than VG10 (which I don't like - I do the sharpening). She could care less and is hard on knives, so the purchase is really about what I want lol. Her go-to knife is a tiny 40x154 Shun Chef Knife. It pains me to watch her use that knife, but again, she could care less. What I've been searching for to give her is a 45-50 x 165-170 Santoku in a quality SS that isn't VG10. I'd prefer a western handle in Micarta or Pakkawood because she's a knife barbarian. I haven't really settled on anything yet, and am still gathering an education on various stainless steels.

please let us know what you find

 

[Benuser]

What I've been searching for to give her is a 45-50 x 165-170 Santoku in a quality SS that isn't VG10. I'd prefer a western handle in Micarta or Pakkawood because she's a knife barbarian. I haven't really settled on anything yet, and am still gathering an education on various stainless steels.

Far from adventurous, but you both should be fine with this one in VG-1 @60Rc, if the user is a right-hander.
Easy sharpening, better retention than all those molys, straightforward deburring. Have the Extra Sharpness option, and follow that geometry with the initial stone sharpening prior to first use. I would start with a medium-coarse stone.
https://japanesechefsknife.com/products/jck-original-kagayaki-basic-series-kg-3-santoku180mm7inch-1
This barbarian will find another occasion to explain why santokus and gyutos originally all had a Western handle, and putting a wa one on it is only done to satisfy the public abroad.

 

[bradmacmt]

Far from adventurous, but you both should be fine with this one in VG-1 @60Rc, if the user is a right-hander.
Easy sharpening, better retention than all those molys, straightforward deburring. Have the Extra Sharpness option, and follow that geometry with the initial stone sharpening prior to first use. I would start with a medium-coarse stone.
https://japanesechefsknife.com/products/jck-original-kagayaki-basic-series-kg-3-santoku180mm7inch-1
This barbarian will find another occasion to explain why santokus and gyutos originally all had a Western handle, and putting a wa one on it is only done to satisfy the public abroad.

Thanks Benuser. That's one I have bookmarked, and the only reason I haven't ordered it is that it's a 180mm - I'd really prefer a 165mm, and nothing longer than 170mm. She uses her 180mm Santoku far less than her little 6" Chef's Knife, which tells me she likes a smaller knife (duh). She has an 8" Chef's Knife that has literally been used one time. After my questioning her about this, she pulled it out of the block, cut some veg, said to me "see, I have used it," put it back and has never used it again.

 

[Justinv]

My wife uses a Gihei santoku for everything. Stainless clad Hap40 steel and its a thin light laser that ghosts through everything. It takes an acute edge and hold it a long while. The low bevel grind works rather well for what it is.

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

Thanks Benuser. That's one I have bookmarked, and the only reason I haven't ordered it is that it's a 180mm - I'd really prefer a 165mm, and nothing longer than 170mm. She uses her 180mm Santoku far less than her little 6" Chef's Knife, which tells me she likes a smaller knife (duh). She has an 8" Chef's Knife that has literally been used one time. After my questioning her about this, she pulled it out of the block, cut some veg, said to me "see, I have used it," put it back and has never used it again.

I concur with @Benuser on the viability of the JCK Basic line and if not for the length preference I also would've recommended it. It's funny how when looking at santoku most of the wa stuff is 165 but most of the yo stuff is 180.

Here's one for consideration:
https://knifejapan.com/moriya-munemitsu-mini-santoku-160mm-gingami-3-stainless-steel/

Maybe a bit too low? I can clear the board with my hands at ~40mm. Michael carries 180 options as well but I don't see anything in between.

Ginsan is really nice to sharpen.

Other than that, maybe don't rule out SK steel options. It's a common steel in the yo handled factory stuff out there. It's carbon but it's pretty resilient.

 

[rinkhals]

I've been meaning to try ginsan too and based on what I hear here, Nakagawa would be my first choice, at least if edge steel was my only consideration. When it comes to profile I very much agree with @bradmacmt here about height, I find a lot of 180 santokus very gyuto-like at which point I'd prefer to go larger which is my preferred gyuto length or go 165 which appears to have more options that follow the more classic santoku shape.

The Tadokoro linked above and https://bernalcutlery.com/products/...-180mm-santoku-ginsanko-yakusugi-cedar-handle if you could find in stock are also a bit more expensive than what I'm willing to pay at the moment for a blade in this category but they seem to tick most boxes. My first actual consideration would be https://www.aiandomknives.com/products/hitohira-kikuchiyo-ren-silver-3-santoku-180mm-ho-wood-handle which has a much better price point, is taller and thicker but it's iron clad which I personally enjoy.

I have a Watanabe 51mm x 169 Santoku. I had a Toyama 54 x 183 but I didn't love it (I'm not an iron clad guy). I'm still looking for a 54mm+ x 180mm+ in Blue no2., stainless clad, but will happily continue to use my Kikamori Bunka (55 x 188) if I don't find my unicorn Santoku (probably the Wakui Blue No.2 Nashiji when available again). The Toyama 180mm is a classic shaped Japanese Santoku (see attached photo), and is what my ideal shaped Santoku looks like - tallish with a big flat spot and very pronounced drop point. 180mm is my favorite knife length too.

Ah this is funny, I just got a Wakui 185x55 Blue 2 ironclad santoku on the way but that Toyama is like MY personal unicorn. I found one of those in a chinese shop but the price was just stupid (think like 1k usd for blade + shipping). That profile is just too damn neat!

 

[ayumi_ishida]

I see there's a non damascus ebony handle version also , Sakai Takayuki Ginsan

What is this finish called ?
I decided I want a Yo version of this .

 

[plantgainz]

What is this finish called ?
I decided I want a Yo version of this .

Migaki. Don't think it does exist a yo handle version, you should buy it and ask a forum member to make one for you

 

[False_Cast]

https://knifejapan.com/moriya-munemitsu-kuchigane-santoku-180mm-gingami-3-stainless-steel/

I'd not hesitate.