Which 210 Gyuto For Me KKF?

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HumbleHomeCook

Embrace your knifesculinity!
KKF Supporting Member
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So, I've been a vocal supporter of the 180-190ish offerings and still am but I gave my SIL my last 210 and find myself missing having one once in a while. And who knows, maybe I can be wooed back. :)

Now, I've been scheming to have a custom built with KKF's own Matt Sicard but I want that to be a fancier knife. But here's the reality. I just finished working on two pettys. 320-500-2k, thinning and sharpening. My arthritis kicked in pretty well and I got shaky and the work reflects it. So, for the time being, I'm going to stay focused on more of a worker option while still saving for my fancy one.

So, here I am.

I like the general Sanjo style of that slightly thicker spine out of the handle, no machi gap, and slightly less curvy than other offerings. I've done Yoshi and love them but just a too flat heeled for what I'm after.

LOCATION
What country are you in?

USA

KNIFE TYPE
What type of knife are you interested in (e.g., chefs knife, slicer, boning knife, utility knife, bread knife, paring knife, cleaver)?

Gyuto

Are you right or left handed?

Right

Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle?

Open but I like wa, especially for the lighter weight and more blade-oriented balance.

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)?

200-210mm-ish

Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no)

Not at all. I love AS but am even considering Shirogami.

What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife?

$300

KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment?

Home

What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.)

General use - all 'rounder

What knife, if any, are you replacing?

N/A

Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for the common types of grips.)

Pinch

What cutting motions do you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for types of cutting motions and identify the two or three most common cutting motions, in order of most used to least used.)

I mix it up depending on what I'm doing. Some rocking but lot of push cutting too.

What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.)

Better aesthetics (e.g., a certain type of finish; layered/Damascus or other pattern of steel; different handle color/pattern/shape/wood; better scratch resistance; better stain resistance)?

No Damascus or polished blades. Prefer kurouchi but also like tsuchime and nashiji and the various combos of them. No joke, given my preface at the start of the thread, leaning to rustic is better. :)

Comfort (e.g., lighter/heavier knife; better handle material; better handle shape; rounded spine/choil of the knife; improved balance)?

I'm always leery of using the common KKF knife descriptions cuz I don't have experience with them all. Lasers I've done but again, I don't want a skinny spine. But, I also don't think I want a work horse. I like a somewhat more robust spine but still thin at the edge. If it helps, my Watanabe 180 gyuto and nakiri are my current most used knives.

Ease of Use (e.g., ability to use the knife right out of the box; smoother rock chopping, push cutting, or slicing motion; less wedging; better food release; less reactivity with food; easier to sharpen)?

Cut stuff good. :p

Edge Retention (i.e., length of time you want the edge to last without sharpening)?

Nah. No worries.


KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board? (Yes or no.)

Wood

Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.)

Yes


SPECIAL REQUESTS/COMMENTS

Two that are high on my current list are:
https://carbonknifeco.com/collectio...ra-ajikataya-shirogami-2-kurouchi-gyuto-210mm
https://carbonknifeco.com/collections/mazaki/products/mazaki-white-2-kuro-nashiji-gyuto-210mm
The Mazaki looks pretty flat compared to the Hinoura. Not sure I see that as good or bad, just an observation. Would love feedback on these two and of course, anything else you recommend.

As always, thanks KKF. :)
 
Hinoura tends to come in long for the size. So expect a 210mm to actually be 215-220mm length. They don't have a whole lot of flat, especially for the 210 model. I think they're really comfortable, with a decent taper. But the grinds are thicker than most behind the edge. Good if that's what you're after.

Other options you may want to consider for thick spine out of handle with nice taper include munetoshi and wakui. Munetoshi taper is more extreme, having some of the thickest spines coming out of the handles. Both have thinner grinds than the Hinoura, but also feature flatter heels. I think all 3 are excellent options though, each with their own tradeoffs
 
Hinoura tends to come in long for the size. So expect a 210mm to actually be 215-220mm length. They don't have a whole lot of flat, especially for the 210 model. I think they're really comfortable, with a decent taper. But the grinds are thicker than most behind the edge. Good if that's what you're after.

Other options you may want to consider for thick spine out of handle with nice taper include munetoshi and wakui. Munetoshi taper is more extreme, having some of the thickest spines coming out of the handles. Both have thinner grinds than the Hinoura.

Thank you. With Wakui, would I just be repeating my Yoshi experience?
 
Thank you. With Wakui, would I just be repeating my Yoshi experience?
No. Yoshi grind and profile are very different. Yoshi is a high flat grind with super thin behind the edge. And they have a really annoying dead flat spot which I personally despise. Wakui has 2 different grinds that I've seen. The hairline or migaki tends to have a thin convex grind, but not as thin as Yoshi. The nashiji wakuis are more like a thin medium wide bevel with a sorta low shinogi flat grind. I also updated the previous post about profile, but basically the wakui doesn't have the dead flat spot like Yoshi.
 
@tostadas and @runninscared can either of you give me a feel for how reactive the iron cladding is? I don't mind some reactivity and have one iron clad petty but it seems not all iron cladding is created equal and some of it is quite prone to near instant rusting.
 
@tostadas and @runninscared can either of you give me a feel for how reactive the iron cladding is? I don't mind some reactivity and have one iron clad petty but it seems not all iron cladding is created equal and some of it is quite prone to near instant rusting.
Reactivity feels like it's closely related to the finish. The stock finish on the munetoshi is not the nicest, and I noticed it to be very reactive. However, if you smooth out the finish, say with 800grit sandpaper, then the problem goes away. I've noticed this for 3 different munetoshis I've had.
 
with my 240 i find it really easy to take care of. its not the type of knife to start rusting just being in the vicinity of an onion. ive heard stories of moritaka's/mazaki's discoloring onions while cutting. munetoshi is nothing like that.
 
Actually, truth be told, as weird as it might sound, I like bonding with my knives through care. Whether it's routine handle waxing or like today when I cleaned up the iron cladding on the wife's Murata.
 
It's a little longer than I planned but anyone have experience with these:

https://bernalcutlery.com/collectio...ainless-clad-walnut-pc?variant=40874462249112
i dunno if id be up for paying that much for a tosa knife w/ that level of fit and finish.

as another option for roughly the same money(sign up for the newsletter for 10% off) you could pick up something like this:

https://miuraknives.com/japanese-kn...id3072-japanese-knife-hado.html#/34-size-21cm
sakai 210 so its probably 205~ fantastic grind, better handle and certainly better F&F. although i wouldnt go too crazy rock chopping/mincing with something thin bte like this.
 
@tostadas and @runninscared can either of you give me a feel for how reactive the iron cladding is? I don't mind some reactivity and have one iron clad petty but it seems not all iron cladding is created equal and some of it is quite prone to near instant rusting.
The cladding on my munetoshi is actually pretty uneventful. It is iron but hasn't been super reactive or rusty. Which may be a good thing for you.
 
The cladding on my munetoshi is actually pretty uneventful. It is iron but hasn't been super reactive or rusty. Which may be a good thing for you.

Thanks Mike. You stripped the lacquer I assume? I had another iron clad KU knife and stripped it an it wasn't bad either.
 
I spoke with Jon about the Gengetsu profile previously, and he mentioned that it has a long flat spot similar to Yoshikane which is like a love/hate for different people.
I actually compared those 2 in store, they are very very similar in profile, but the Gengetsu grind is more sophisticated. Only thing is the next batch is going to have a higher price tho.
 
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