Which gyuto? (Stainless/resistant, ~240mm, more nfo inside)

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As far as getting a trainer knife, crappy knives are harder to sharpen. I have a friend with Rachel Ray knives. I'd rather do almost anything to avoid sharpening those knives again.
Learning takes forever, I learn something new each time I sharpen, and I'm sure most of these other people do too. Hell, Dave probably does. But to get to where your knife is sharper than the rest of the suckers in your kitchen? A couple of weeks, maybe. If you have the manual skills to chiffonade parsley or debone poultry you can teach your hands this skill.
 
Depends how sharp you like your knives. Highly recommend Broida's JKI (knifesharpeningplaylist). Watch the first 10 tutorals on double bevel knives. It's free and solid technique. Dardeau mentioned Dickoron polishing steel. I like that steel as well, but not cheap. Victorinox combo fine polish is around 30 bucks. A few Lite measured strokes on polishing steel or smooth ceramic.

Good quality stainless steel is much easier to learn on than cheap stainless. I find VG-10 easy to sharpen, Ginsan, AEB-L, SRS-15 all good steels to start on the stones. Yeh learning freehand is just good technique, focus, hand eye coordination. Than again it is absolutely worth it to spend a little effort to get good at it. Nothing is worse than using dull knives in a production kitchen.
 
Get the 800 and 3000, corresponds more or less to JIS 1200 and 4000. Have the old Chosera ones, old price and bigger. You may want to add later a Naniwa Snow-white 8k.
 
the chosera 1k is a fantastic stone, I highly rate it. Great for a medium stone. There are plenty of options out there...but each knife you buy will have different requirements. If you buy what people consider a "laser" type knife you won't really need anything below 1000 grit for a while, where some other knives such as the tojiro may benefit from a bit of minor thinning out of the box so perhaps a 400ish stone is useful. Generally, with sharpening you probably want about three stones eventually to maximise efficiency. In the case of the tojiro, the 400ish grit to get started and thin a bit, a 1000ish grit to bring up a burr and then a 5000ish grit stone to finish and clean up

Before worrying about thinning though, you want to get used to just actually sharpening, getting the muscle memory worked out and the movements feeling natural. As a 500 grit stone is quite coarse, it is quite easily to ruin your edge in the beginning so I would maybe get at least a 1kish and 5kish stone. If you don't want to spend much money, there are combination stones out there you can use which incorporate different grits on either side. Sometimes you can find stones for cheap here on the bst forum as well.

Speaking of price, don't feel pressured to buy the expensive Choseras if you can't afford them. Dave Martell's set of a 500 beston and 1200 bester and the 5000 suehiro rika is a great all purpose set. I honestly prefer the feedback of a Suehiro Rika 5k to the feedback of the chosera 5k though that could just be me. It feels smoother to me and depending where you order from is significantly cheaper. Whilst the chosera 1k feels nice to use, the bester 1200 is no slouch either. The 500 stone beston is a staple to many people's sharpening regime. As an added bonus, all three of these stones can be soaked in water indefinitely (they need to be soaked before use at the very least). The choseras are splash and go and can be a bit finicky for some to figure out at first.
 
You'll need one that is about 800-2k and one that 3k-4k. Really a medium and a medium fine, but numbers help at first. Once you look at what the stones do, you will understand better. The grits benuser offered are about what I would get.
If Dave's stones are cheaper with taxes and shipping get them, if a couple Choseras shipped from Germany are cheaper get them. I wouldn't stress about a low stone, your knives and progress will tell you when you need one.
Have fun and remember not to get lazy, I'm about to have to do a quick and dirty job on my gyuto of the day before my cooks get in because I got caught up in yard work in my day off!
 
No need for a coarser than a Chosera 800 unless big repairs are involved. The Chosera is a very fast cutter. I use it for thinning behind the edge as well, with soft and hard carbons, mono VG-10, soft stainless clad.
 
For 1Kish stone I would not spend money on Chosera right away. Start with King 1000, it is cheap and quite a good stone actually.
 
Benuser said:
Don't start with a slow stone. Fatigue and concentration loss will induce errors and bad habits.
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Then you should not be recommending Chosera 800. I would not call it a fast one. Between King 1000 and Chosera 800 King is faster IMO.

Also, following this logic it's better to start learning on a lower grit one ~300-500. Which actually, is not such a bad idea.
 
There are honestly countless stones out there as we all have different preferences. I think feedback is more important than speed although slow stones are painful to use. Something relatively dish resistant is probably important too as something soft and and muddy will wear quickly, increasing the likelihood that the stone will be out of flat sooner rather than later when just starting out sharpening.
 
Ruso said:
Also, following this logic it's better to start learning on a lower grit one ~300-500. Which actually, is not such a bad idea.
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This is a horrible idea, you can do so much more damage more quickly with a coarse stone.

800-1.2k is a good place to start and then add something in the 4-6k range.

You should also be thinking about how you will flatten these stones--nothing worse than sharpening with a dished out mess.

I do agree that faster stones are easier to learn on--less time on each stone to potentially screw up or round the edge.

Cheers
 
So here's the deal, please C&C :)

1. Tojiro DP 3 layers HQ 270mm (150€)
2. King combo 1000/6000 (39€)

and of course a fitting holder for the stone. Will this do what I want it to? Do I need anythind else that I'd need right away?

As for training sharpening: my workplace offers plenty of German knives ridden to ****, I thought I'd pick the least ruined one, watch some videos and try my luck.
 
Do it. The FH aren't going anywhere, and neither are any of the stones. Let us know how it works out.
 
Nihilio said:
So here's the deal, please C&C :)

1. Tojiro DP 3 layers HQ 270mm (150€)
2. King combo 1000/6000 (39€)

and of course a fitting holder for the stone. Will this do what I want it to? Do I need anythind else that I'd need right away?

As for training sharpening: my workplace offers plenty of German knives ridden to ****, I thought I'd pick the least ruined one, watch some videos and try my luck.
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sounds good. I dont have a stone holder and have never seemed to need one. I just put the stones on top of a damp towel and and they stay put. i guess the extra height could be nice but its never been an issue for me

only other thing you need is a way to keep your stones flat. the cheapest option, which i use, is wet/dry sandpaper on top of 12"x12" flat granite tile. i use wet/dry grits of around 220 to 400.
 
Should be able to find a tojiro dp for cheaper... definitely
 
For the flattening of the stone - you can use sandpaper on a floor tile (for the flatness). That's what I used to do before I got a diamond plate for the job.
 
Like DaninMD I also just use a damp towel on the counter and avoid having to use a stone holder. For the extra height, I put a piece of 2x4 in between. I just use a slightly larger towel and wrap it over and under the 2x4 in a single layer. It stays very stable.
 
berko said:
150€ seems rather expensive compared to this
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That's Import - add customs 3% and 19% VAT.

I'll keep looking for a better price though.

Oh, and being a stupid Kraut i don't know: a 2 by 4 was some sort of wood, right?
 
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Sorry about the lack of explanation on the 2x4. It's a piece of wood that's approximately two inches by four inches, by whatever length is needed in the antiquated measuring system we still use in the U.S. They're probably the most common sort of solid construction wood used over here for framing houses, walls, etc. Basically, you could just use any piece of wood that's wider and longer than your stone and gives you a bit of extra height without creating an unstable base. Of course, there's nothing wrong with a stone holder. I just find this works well and I got a scrap piece of wood for free.
 
Ruso said:
I found this on amazon.de should be right up your alley. 80 Euros.
http://www.amazon.de/dp/B000UANWIC/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
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This item will be shipped from Japan, but since it comes through Amazon there will be no additional VAT charged. I have already ordered some items via Amazon.de and actually did not realise that they will be shipped from Japan. Just took a little longer, but arrived fine. And no additional VAT charges.
 
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I'd go with the regular DP, that handle looks less than comfy.
 
Nihilio said:
Oh, and being a stupid Kraut i don't know: a 2 by 4 was some sort of wood, right?
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You think you're stupid? How about this: a 2 x 4 actually measures 1 1/2" x 3 1/2". :scratchhead:
 
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