Which Knives should I buy?

[Ekko]

Hi folks. I've been aching to replace our old block set for a couple of years, and am finally ready to start the process of doing that. I plan to get a magnet strip and wanted to minimalize the number of knives we use in the kitchen, so I've narrowed down my "needs" to just 4 (though I might want to get a boning knife or a cleaver at some point in the future.)

Was hoping to get some recommendations on quality steel. The closer to BIFL, the better!

My max prices are max prices, but if I can get out of this without spending more than 10000 SEK my wife would appreciate it.

LOCATION
Sweden

KNIFE TYPE
What type of knife are you interested in?

• Chef's Knife
• Veggie Cleaver/Bocho
• Utility Knife
• and a Bread Knife

Are you right or left handed?

• Right

Are you interested in a Western handle or Japanese handle?

• No preference

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in?

• ~210mm, give or take
• ~175mm
• ~130mm
• ~200mm

Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no)

• No (but my wife says yes, since we share in the cooking and the responsibility of carbon scares her)

What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife?

• Chef's Knife: 4000 SEK
• Bocho: 3000 SEK
• Utility: 3000 SEK
• Bread: 2000 SEK

KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment?

• Home

What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for?

• Cutting/Slicing/Trimming meat, chopping nuts, dicing veggies
• Prepping veggies (cutting/chopping/slicing)
• Cutting sandwiches and slicing buns, slicing herbs
• BREAD

What knife, if any, are you replacing?

• Standard off-the-shelf kitchen knife block

Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use?

• Pinch or Finger Point

What cutting motions do you primarily use?

• Slice, Draw, and Rock

What improvements do you want from your current knife?

Comfort (e.g., lighter/heavier knife; better handle material; better handle shape; rounded spine/choil of the knife; improved balance)?

• Better handle shape, better material

Ease of Use (e.g., ability to use the knife right out of the box; smoother rock chopping, push cutting, or slicing motion; less wedging; better food release; less reactivity with food; easier to sharpen)?

• Better food release, easier to sharpen, out-of-the-box use is a bonus

Edge Retention (i.e., length of time you want the edge to last without sharpening)?

• More edge retention = more better. I don't have specifics, but I'm also not averse to the idea of sharpening as needed.

KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board? (Yes or no.)

• Yes (wood)

Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.)

• No

If not, are you interested in learning how to sharpen your knives? (Yes or no.)

• Yes

Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? (Yes or no.)

• Yes

SPECIAL REQUESTS/COMMENTS

I'm firmly in the BIFL stage of purchasing, and so that's why I wanted to come here to find out as much info as I could before committing to a disappointing kitchen purchase. We've been using the knife block my mother bought for us for about 5 years and I've had enough. Even after taking them to get sharpened professionally they just didn't hold up.

I'm open to any alternative suggestions or guides you might share (different grips or cutting styles).

My wife and I tend to alternate in kitchen duties at a 60/40 split. But when I'm in the kitchen I tend to get more involved and use more tools.

 

[Matus]

Hi and welcome. For bread I would get Mac Superior bread knife. Have one, love it.

Then get a nice 210 mm gyuto - if you do not wan to go too far from home than cleancut has a really nice Himoura Ajikitaya, or there is the Kaeru from JNS or 210 Toyama from JNS (will be the best cutter of the 3). On a second thought the Toyama would be your best bet as it is also stainless clad (older versions were cabon clad). The grind is superb.

My second suggestion is to only buy the gyuto (and the bread knife) first and use it for a few weeks and see how you like them and what do you use them for. 210 gyuto will do 90% of your cutting and you may change opinion on what other knives you want to get (I am not suggesting that you will not want other knives).

If you are about start to learn sharpening, then consider getting a smaller (like 135 - 165) carbon knife (say a Zakuri funayuki or Munetoshi petty from JNS or similar), get some stones (just browse around - there are many threads on that topic already) and then find the YT videos by JapaneseKnifeImports and start learning.

 

[Ekko]

Thanks for the recommendation(s).

My second suggestion is to only buy the gyuto (and the bread knife) first and use it for a few weeks and see how you like them and what do you use them for. 210 gyuto will do 90% of your cutting and you may change opinion on what other knives you want to get (I am not suggesting that you will not want other knives).

I initially made my choices of the 4 knives based no what I normally use out of our Knife block and what I use them for. I'm pretty confident those are the 4 I want to start with, and might add the cleaver later. But I don't mind starting with just the Gyuto, if that's really where you lean.

 

[JaVa]

I'll echo with everything Matus suggested.

With your budget and location I'll ad this.
https://www.cleancut.eu/butik/knifebrands/shiro-kamo-3-series/shiro-kamo-kurai/kamo_gyuto_sg2-detail
I have the Knives & Stones version which is a bit taller. Also I've had 4 Shiro Kamos and they're very good with effective grinds. R2 is ss and has great edge retention and is ok to sharpen too. Shiro Kamo is a little underrated smith, but all 4 knives I've owned have been great cutters.

For some reason CC is short on pettys atm, but If you want get one now this is a good choice.
https://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/kaeru-kasumi-stainless-petty-150mm/You get to try out a different maker and steel. Don't let the affordable price fool you. It's a great performer, with stellar grind and good steel.

 

[mooncake]

For high edge retention, using powder steel knives such as SRS15 is a good choice.
You may slightly sharpen the knife half year ,by using to 3 k stones.

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

A sharp plain edge can cover a LOT of bread knife tasks. If you really want one, I say don't get anything fancy. A mainstream serrated knife like a Victorinox/Fibrox bread knife will do you fine for many, many years.

I agree with just buying a gyuto right now. I would say your focus should be on one knife and sharpening with sharpening being the priority.

My advice would be to approach your knife buy conservatively as we nearly always have to engage in some experimentation to really find what we like.

For example, here are three different Japanese knives. None of them are high end but not junk and all three are very different:

I bought the Yaxell on top first and loved it. It was my first foray into Japanese knives and away from Wusthof. The long thin blade was fantastic. It's a very good knife. Balance point is back around the bolster making it handle-heavy. I never paid any attention to that until...

Then I got the Suncraft Senzo bunka below it. Oh man, love the design and feel. So much lighter than the Yaxell, love the wa handle with a balance point right on the neck. But, the matte finish of the etch makes it sticky.

Then I got the Ittetsu bunka on the bottom and, yep, love it. Thicker than the Suncraft but feels even lighter and more nimble with a balance point about the choil making it slightly blade heavy. The edge is curved more and I'm deciding on how I feel about that.

Point being, my tastes and awareness of subtleties evolved as I tried different brands and styles. And they are still evolving.

Now, you know what I see when I look at that Yaxell? Two little rolled edge spots below the "Y" emblem. The back part and in front of that are just light reflections but when I set the knife down for the pic I saw those two little spots and when I gave them a better look, yep, slight rolls that means I need to take it to a stone.

Sharpening is the priority. Learning and gaining confidence in your ability to sharpen will open endless possibilities. I do not subscribe to the school that you should start on carbon knives, just good knives. Go down to the Sharpening Station and start researching and asking questions and pick one or two stones to get started.

Then pick a decent gyuto that looks like it has the features you like and get started. In a year or two you'll be much better prepared to make long term choices.

I know...Long...

 

[Delat]

I'll echo with everything Matus suggested.

With your budget and location I'll ad this.
https://www.cleancut.eu/butik/knifebrands/shiro-kamo-3-series/shiro-kamo-kurai/kamo_gyuto_sg2-detail
I have the Knives & Stones version which is a bit taller. Also I've had 4 Shiro Kamos and they're very good with effective grinds. R2 is ss and has great edge retention and is ok to sharpen too. Shiro Kamo is a little underrated smith, but all 4 knives I've owned have been great cutters.

I bought a Shiro Kamo 210mm gyuto in December as my first “real” j-knife after using a Shun for ages. I like it a lot and it was definitely sharp out of the box. I gave it a light touch up on a 4k stone and strop but it really didn’t need it. It ran around $275 USD. I’d describe it as pretty light and maneuverable, great for vegetables but probably a bit light and thin for heavier tasks. I don’t see Shiro Kamo mentioned much on these forums but all the reviews I’ve been able to find have been extremely positive.

There’s definitely a ton of great choices in the <$300 USD price range and I’m sure you’ll get many more suggestions.