which midgrit stone for polishing - hard, non-muddy, low contrast?

[Choppin]

I’ve been working on a few projects that involve serious thinning and now I’m polishing the bevels en route to a nice kasumi (hopefully).

I used a SG220 for thinning and then a SG500 to remove it’s scratches, which it did really well. I specially liked how I could see clearly what I was doing: both the 500 scratches and the still remaining 220 were perfectly visible. I was frustrated with other coarse stones that masked the coarser scratches or made so much contrast that I couldn’t clearly check my progress (specially soft, muddy stones).

Now I’m looking for a midgrit to follow the SG500. Again, something similar: hard, non-muddy, low-contrast so I can see scratches clearly.

I’m using a Naniwa Gouken Arata 2k and it works well, except it’s too grabby on the cladding. I think Milan wrote here that the Naniwa Pro 1k is good for this, but it might be too close to the SG500? What about SG2k?

Thanks!

 

[milangravier]

Naniwa pro 1k is quite soft. But it doesn't make big contrast and dark muted iron so you can clearly see your scratches. Naniwa pro 2k is soft too but much more contrast and can hide previous scratches.
If you want something in the same spirit as SG500, I advise you Bester 2K : it is hard ceramic stone, a soaker, but you can work on a hard surface, no mud and with some time using the stone, it start burnishing so you can even acheive a zero contrast finish bevel.
Naniwa hibiki are in the same spirit, but a 1k might be too close to Sg500, maybe the 3k but I did not tested it.

 

[ethompson]

SG 2k will work for this nicely, might be my choice. Gesshin 3k ceramic is my current choice though. Doesn’t hide any scratches and cuts fairly shallow.

 

[M1k3]

If your looking for stones with little contrast and makes the steel shiny, look to Naniwa Super Stones.

 

[ModRQC]

In the same line of thought, SP2K works quite cleanly from SG500. Very good stone at pretty much all you can throw at it, too, and not so expensive compared with SG2K while there's more of it, which in frequent polishing use might prove valuable.

Arashiyama 1K is really good too, but I don't think it'd fit your requirements so well.

I've seen folks do pretty awesome things with the Morihei 1K as well, and I'm guessing it'd fit your requirements well based on my Morihei 4K.

 

[Choppin]

thanks guys, lots of good info

@milangravier weirdly my 2k Gouken Arata is medium-hard and not very contrasty. I though this line was similar to Pro/Chosera but apparently not. Will look at the Bester 2k, seems interesting!

@ethompson damn I just got the Gesshin 4k and 6k soakers and totally missed the 3k… just saw Jon’s video, like it!!

@M1k3 the fine grit SS’ get lots of praise around here, but are the midgrits (2k specially) also good polishers?

@ModRQC I should get the SP2k anyway for sharpening but I’ve read here that it masks a lot of the scratches when polishing… same with the SP1k

 

[M1k3]

Super Stones are great polishers, for a mirror-like finish. Kasumi polishing not so much.

 

[ModRQC]

thanks guys, lots of good info

@milangravier weirdly my 2k Gouken Arata is medium-hard and not very contrasty. I though this line was similar to Pro/Chosera but apparently not. Will look at the Bester 2k, seems interesting!

@ethompson damn I just got the Gesshin 4k and 6k soakers and totally missed the 3k… just saw Jon’s video, like it!!

@M1k3 the fine grit SS’ get lots of praise around here, but are the midgrits (2k specially) also good polishers?

@ModRQC I should get the SP2k anyway for sharpening but I’ve read here that it masks a lot of the scratches when polishing… same with the SP1k

You can easily get to burnishing state with it. And even before that it doesn’t darken the bevel enough to hide much of anything under direct lighting. It’s also a good way finer than SG500 which is a pretty telling stone for downgrit scratches while pretty well behaved itself for grits so they work well together into a prog.

My real advice is there is more parameters to be considered for a mid stone to particularly shine in polishing - like type of cladding but also how to use them. Or there is something like Cerax 700 to muddy things up and make almost all of them look nice enough with a few tricks. And so forth…

 

[Steampunk]

I really like using the Shapton Pro 1K for this job... It's a fast, but super precise cutter (Little or no mud, but also doesn't load. Doesn't dish much, even when you lean on it over a long thinning session.) on san-mai wide or single bevels. Near zero contrast. No low spot, or wonky-ness gets hidden by it, and it's fast and precise enough to solve a lot of grind issues without having to drop back down to something coarser. It's not my favorite 1K stone for almost anything else, but for perfecting wide/single bevels so that nothing bites you in the behind later, it's pretty close to perfect.

It behaves a lot like the SG 500, but obviously finer, and even more precise. You've got a lot of control working with this stone, but still some ability to get some work done.

If I'm doing hamaguriba sharpening, I can create the facets with this stone, but to blend them I actually sometimes sidestep to a Suehiro Cerax 1K or Gesshin 1200 Resinoid... Both of which help to start building the contrast that the Shapton 1K Pro doesn't, but they can also hide a lot of sins that the Shapton simply solves, instead.

The scratch pattern from the Shapton Pro 1K is really uniform, so picking up with something like the synthetic JNS Red or Speckled Blue Aoto's, a really fast 6K like the orange Cerax, or even one of the faster BBW's/Coticule's on heavy slurry afterwards is very doable to start generating your contrast afterwards. No real need to stick something finer in between most of the time, though as I said, sidestepping to a softer/muddier 1k-ish stone can help to build a deeper contrast that will stick around later if you play your cards right with the finer stones. On flatter bevels, I sidestep to a really clean White Binsui from Maksim, before carrying on in the progression.

A relatively close second would be the Naniwa Pro/Chosera 800... This does generate a little bit of contrast and builds a fairly thin/fine mud on wide/single bevels, but still does a pretty good job of showing up/fixing low spots, and perfecting shinogi lines... Maybe not quite with the aplomb of the Shapton Pro 1K, but the tradeoff is it's just generally a more versatile 1K-ish stone. I also like using the Naniwa for edge bevels, and even finishing knives that need a fairly toothy edge, whereas I'm not as fond of the Shapton in this role.

Hope this helps...

 

[ModRQC]

NP800 is indeed a stone I had in mind as much as SP1K. I just think SP2K is less of hassle into combining the best properties of them into a single stone. But there are either the speed or specific engineering properties thereof SP1K/NP800 cannot be rivaled with.

I guess my point would be, as I said, a few different stones will get the hang of some blades better than others, but if I was angling into a single stone getting most of the OP requirements right... and then shining elsewhere as cherry on top... it'd be SP2K. Indeed I've done sold both my NP800 and SP1K once I got a more working combination of mid grit stones to my purposes. Which is admittedly, to blend things up.

I've not kept SP2K towards astounding polishing skills. More like anything else it gets right, But taking from SG500, then SP2K is a solid answer, or at least a very good place to start with towards this thread's requirements. And it's a fine enough stone to not blend things up, but just plain show where you've gotten at out of many progs, steels, and geometry combinations out there. If you've got 50 stones it's best at nothing. If you've got but a few, it's best to try it out and cover a lot of different bases while doing the most needed base done right.

 

[Choppin]

The SP1k seems like a great stone, but wouldn't it be too close in grit to the SG500? That's why I was initially considering the SP2k or SG2k. A 2k also seems more practical for sharpening, as I could use it after the SG500 for the edges.

On the other hand, the SP1k is possibly fine enough to jump to my Gesshin 6k... or to a Aizu/BBW and start a natural progression. So I guess that could be an option... a good 1k is always useful

Easy way is buying all of these and selling the ones I like less, lol. The KKF way

 

[cotedupy]

If your looking for stones with little contrast and makes the steel shiny, look to Naniwa Super Stones.

Super Stones are great polishers, for a mirror-like finish. Kasumi polishing not so much.

^^^ What Mike says ^^^

If you really want to see stuff then Superstones polish in an extremely peculiar way. It doesn't necessarily always look particularly nice because it highlights any scratch going, but if that's what you want in order to check things in the middle of a progression... get a Superstone.

Or sandpaper. WnD sandpaper does the same.

(Shapton Glass too, though to a much lesser extent.)

 

[daveb]

Anyone else like the JKI Jinzo for polish? It wouldn't be an end point for polisher nuts but does leave a matt gray finish of about 800 grit that is my end point.

 

[Choppin]

^^^ What Mike says ^^^

If you really want to see stuff then Superstones polish in an extremely peculiar way. It doesn't necessarily always look particularly nice because it highlights any scratch going, but if that's what you want in order to check things in the middle of a progression... get a Superstone.

Or sandpaper. WnD sandpaper does the same.

(Shapton Glass too, though to a much lesser extent.)

mmmm sounds good... they are affordable so that's a plus

it was sandpaper that gave me the idea for this thread. I was using WnD to remove SG220 scratches but got bored and switched to stones. then I realized some stones actually made it harder to see the scratches. SG500 was one of the best in this sense.

BTW I just got a SG2k from a friend of mine so will try that before anything else.

 

[Choppin]

Anyone else like the JKI Jinzo for polish? It wouldn't be an end point for polisher nuts but does leave a matt gray finish of about 800 grit that is my end point.

I haven't tried the Jinzo but really liked the Gesshin 600 resinoid for this. it leaves a nice polish with some contrast and good definition on the cladding line.

 

[daveb]

You're welcome to borrow mine to try - next time you're in Orlando.

 

[Choppin]

You're welcome to borrow mine to try - next time you're in Orlando.

thanks man!! super kind. I'll shoot you a PM

 

[cotedupy]

mmmm sounds good... they are affordable so that's a plus

it was sandpaper that gave me the idea for this thread. I was using WnD to remove SG220 scratches but got bored and switched to stones. then I realized some stones actually made it harder to see the scratches. SG500 was one of the best in this sense.

BTW I just got a SG2k from a friend of mine so will try that before anything else.

Oh haha... sounds like we're on exactly the same page then!

I've only tried the SG2k once, and I can't remember it precisely, but my general recollection was that every stone in the SG range did the kind of thing you're looking for. So I imagine your new 2k might be perfect.

(But yeah, if not - Superstones).

 

[Choppin]

Oh haha... sounds like we're on exactly the same page then!

I've only tried the SG2k once, and I can't remember it precisely, but my general recollection was that every stone in the SG range did the kind of thing you're looking for. So I imagine your new 2k might be perfect.

(But yeah, if not - Superstones).

haha yes you definitely got the spirit

this video also makes me believe the SG2k would be a good stone for this... its not really used here but all the other SGs (500, 1k, 3k, 6k) seem consistent in this sense.

 

[Choppin]

ok just tried the SG2k today and it worked beautifully for my application

it did a great job removing SG500 scratches and even some remaining #200 sandpaper scratches. following with a Gesshin 6k was pretty straightforward.

it’s streaky for sure, but that’s expected given it’s a hard stone and the convex bevel I’m working on. but it‘s fast and leaves a shiny finish that highlights any remaining coarse scratches.

forgot to take pictures… will do tomorrow

 

[ModRQC]

A good description of what SP2K does although I suspect it’d exhibit a bit more contrast than SG2K. Perhaps what people mean when they say it hides scratches.

So do you have a SG2K on the radar after all?

 

[Choppin]

A good description of what SP2K does although I suspect it’d exhibit a bit more contrast than SG2K. Perhaps what people mean when they say it hides scratches.

So do you have a SG2K on the radar after all?

interesting. I’ve also heard that SP2k is a bit finer than SG2k. need to try it one day

I ended up buying the SG2k from my friend, he made a good price and I needed a midgrit anyway. so I’ll use it for now and keep the other suggestions here in mind.

 

[ModRQC]

It’s a good choice really especially since you know from experience about its behavior already. Congrats!

 

[ModRQC]

interesting. I’ve also heard that SP2k is a bit finer than SG2k. need to try it one day

I might not have had enough stones to state things like that as acutely as some members here, but I always though the SP2K indeed behaved about like 2500 grits in general. The Cerax 3K/Ouka is just about as fast, from more aggressive manners. Like you wouldn' t tend to use the Ouka for light touch ups because it very readily raises a burr, although it's really good with a very light touch, but the SP2K is just an excellent, straightforward, S&G stone for that, or for deburring as well.

I've been curious to test a SG2K for a looooong time.