Yanagiba recommendation requested.

[Qapla']

Hi all,

I am considering buying a yanagiba. Can anyone make any good recommendations?

Location: USA
Usage: Home cooking and/or general knife knuttery. (I am not a chef.)
Knife type: Yanagiba, preferably of orthodox geometry. I am open to saki-maru or kiritsuke-gata ones as well, but am not looking to get too fancy at this time.
Blade steel: Stainless or semistainless would probably be somewhat preferable (semistainless would presumably have the advantage of carbon-steel-like sharpening?), but open to rust-nonresistant steels as well.
Blade length: 300mm. 330mm is likely a bit long for both my board and for the food items I'd be cutting (though I'm sure it'd look pretty damn cool).
Handle type: Either Western or Japanese design-esthetic are fine; what's important are modern materials and an integrated or else well-sealed handle design. I have absolutely zero interest in "wa" handles and wood.
Techniques of choice: Slicing; I don't plan on doing anything really unorthodox with it.
Boards in use: Polymer
Sharpening skill: What's the Japanese word for "noob"? I occasionally sharpen, freehand on stones, but not with any degree of skill at this time.

Thanks all.

 

[Consequence]

lol. good luck finding a knife that fits the criteria above.

its not easy to find a yanagi with western handle, with a proper chisel grind that a normal yanagi would have. you can remove the handle they come with and glue up a handle with 'modern materials' that you made yourself or got custom made. if not dont waste your time with looking for a yanagi with a western handle and just go for a sujihiki instead. there are plenty of sujihikis that come with western handles. but good luck finding any stock wa handles that are made from 'modern materials'

if you insist, i can probably tell you the only option is the masahiro stainless yanagi which comes around below 120$. dont expect too much in quality or grind and its not what you will get in a traditional yanagi.

or you could spend lots of money to get someone to custom make a yanagi with a western handle/japanese handle with modern materials . but expect to spend more than 500$+. And i guess you're probably not looking to spend that much.

 

[Consequence]

if you're okay with adding 100$ ish to your budget, you can buy any stainless or carbon yanagi with a wa handle and then get the handle replaced.
if thats the case, id get any of the sakai carbon/stainless yanagis. expect to pay around 200-400 depending on steel type or brand. then add 100$ for a custom handle or make one yourself.

 

[Qapla']

lol. good luck finding a knife that fits the criteria above.

Not sure what the lol is about? I'm ignorant about the trad-j stuff, sure, but certainly my question wasn't something to laugh at?
The main problem I'm having is that I suspect the ones that fit the description aren't especially good values, and that little real information is available if I buy online (especially if I try to buy from Japan, as my Japanese is still very poor).

Possible examples would be:
* Takayuki Inox-Polycarbonate (unspecified-stainless blade with traditional Japanese handle made of polycarbonate, but not sure the blade's anything special)
* Tojiro All-Steel (all-metal, but unspecified steel, not their usual VG-10 laminate)
* Ichimonji Mitsuhide Sword (VG-1 steel, western pakkawood handle): I have no idea how good this is.
* Takayuki Inox-Pro and its clones from Kikumori and Ichimonji and the like (all-metal example) which are of various grades of steel; the generic-inoxen seem not to be especially good deals, and the upgraded ginsan versions seem to be more expensive than some honyaki knives (!)
* Tadafune Kabuki (shirogami-2 steel, flashy-looking polyurethane handle), though reviews written in Japanese seem to be mixed; some question the quality of the blade-grind, and some even go as far as saying the handle is the best part of it.

If I went down a size, that'd also open up the Kagayaki VG-1 as well (only comes in righty 270mm), but no one seems to know how good it is.

its not easy to find a yanagi with western handle, with a proper chisel grind that a normal yanagi would have. you can remove the handle they come with and glue up a handle with 'modern materials' that you made yourself or got custom made.

This might not be a bad idea.

or you could spend lots of money to get someone to custom make a yanagi with a western handle/japanese handle with modern materials . but expect to spend more than 500$+. And i guess you're probably not looking to spend that much.

Nope, definitely not in the market for a custom.

 

[Ruso]

Replacing a handle, work + material will probably run you more than $100 + potential shipping to the craftsman.

 

[daveb]

The 'Lol" is probably because you've presented conflicting requirements.

The Yani is a traditional Japanese knife. Traditionally the yani will have Wa handles. To get a quality knife you should relax that requirement. You've identified a couple that have western, paka, handles - the ones I recognize are junk.

A better solution may be to shift your focus to a Suji. They are considerably more versatile than a yani, a better choice for a home cook, and being a non-traditional knIfe they are available in more handle / steel configurations.

 

[Nemo]

A better solution may be to shift your focus to a Suji. They are considerably more versatile than a yani, a better choice for a home cook, and being a non-traditional knIfe they are available in more handle / steel configurations.

+1.

And a sujihiki will be more straightforward for a novice sharpener to maintain.

A yanagiba is essentially a single purpose knife. It's for making very delicate slices of fish for sashimi. It CAN be used for slicing and portioning other boneless protein but a suji is more versatile in this role.

 

[Qapla']

The Yani is a traditional Japanese knife. Traditionally the yani will have Wa handles. To get a quality knife you should relax that requirement. You've identified a couple that have western, paka, handles - the ones I recognize are junk.

Thanks. Which of the ones I mentioned are junk?

(Maybe I used the word "Wa" incorrectly? I'd be fine with Japanese-style pakkawood or other Japanese-style polymer etc. handles, but it looks like I'm going to have to go the custom-handle route for that from what I'm reading here.)

A better solution may be to shift your focus to a Suji. They are considerably more versatile than a yani, a better choice for a home cook, and being a non-traditional knIfe they are available in more handle / steel configurations.

+1.
And a sujihiki will be more straightforward for a novice sharpener to maintain.

A yanagiba is essentially a single purpose knife. It's for making very delicate slices of fish for sashimi. It CAN be used for slicing and portioning other boneless protein but a suji is more versatile in this role.

I'll believe that. I do currently have a sujihiki. My goal was more to experiment with something new (q.v. mention of knife knuttery) than to prepare sushi.

 

[daveb]

The Tojiro I would stay away from - they can't make a decent double bevel - would not expect jmuch from a single.

I would avoid anything with VG-10. Learning to sharpen a SB will have challenges enough.

The Kagayaki - do they make the carbonworst?

Where does your bias against wood come from? I use both ho and chestnut professionally and don't even think about it. The chestnut especially is not at all porus and provides a great grip.

If you gotta have composite a Shun does not suck. Much. They are vg-10 and a ***** to sharpen.
M

 

[pete84]

A "not too fancy" stainless yanagi w/ synthetic handle material for use on a poly board by someone with no single bevel sharpening skills?

I second dave's recommendation for a Shun. Anything nicer would overwhelm a "noob" with greatness and I am a conscientious objector against letting good knives get wrecked by those who don't understand or deserve them.

 

[Qapla']

The Tojiro I would stay away from - they can't make a decent double bevel - would not expect jmuch from a single.

Ok. This does seem to match up with what I've been able to figure out so far; the reviews I had read (to the best of my admittedly poor ability to understand Japanese) seem to indicate that the edge-holding of the Tojiro All-Steel single-bevels is not up to par by the users' standards. They do also seem to have Western-style ones in the fashion of their VG-10 Western line, but those only are 210mm and 250mm anyways, and from what I'm reading Tojiro isn't exactly known for quality control.

Where does your bias against wood come from? I use both ho and chestnut professionally and don't even think about it. The chestnut especially is not at all porus and provides a great grip.

I just don't have any interest in handles which require maintenance, and nor in wondering whether my last attempt to treat it was waterproof enough or permanent enough. Especially after searching through the forum here with the threads about handle-finishes and the like. That said, however, your mention of "...and don't even think about it" took me by surprise; what measures did you take to render the wooden handles truly so hassle-free?

I don't know about chestnut handles, as most of the "conventional-style" trad-j knives I see available are either magnolia or else ebony (on the fancier ones; to my understanding, ebony is mainly good only for glamor); were I to seek out chestnut handles, I'm assuming I'd probably have to go the custom-handle route?

If you gotta have composite a Shun does not suck. Much. They are vg-10 and a ***** to sharpen.
M

If I do end up absolutely insisting on synthetic handles (it's certainly not the only factor in choosing a knife, of course), I'll probably do a bit more digging and then eventually roll the dice on the Ichimonji Mitsuhide Sword 300mm. (Information on it's performance still quite scarce; I've only ever found one review, which was quite positive, but a sample size of one is not meaningful. It definitely looks the part of "western-friendly yanagiba", but looks don't mean quite as much on a screen from half a planet away.)

I wasn't considering the Shun, but it doesn't really matter anymore as the manufacturer has discontinued it. The Shun incidentally only went up to 270mm, and on other sites I've been digging through it seems to have be roundly disparaged for various reasons (allegedly bizarre backbeveling and questionable blade-grind that require skilled sharpening-work to reset, and as you pointed out, VG-10 being difficult to sharpen for single-bevels).

Whatever the situation, it's clear I need to rethink this. I might end up converting to more "conventionally popular" concepts of yanagibas, or just spend more time sharpening my sujihiki (which isn't at all a bad thing to improve skill at), or do more digging on the matter.

 

[ian]

Wood handles require very little maintenance. Get a bottle of mineral oil or something and just rub some on the handle like every month or something, or whenever it looks dry, and forget about it. You can also use beeswax as a sealant, if you want, or you can ignore all this and just leave it dry.

 

[daveb]

I do it less than that. When I used a wooden board at home I would hit the handles when I hit the board. With the work kit I can't think of doing them in the last year or so. Prob should.

 

[daveb]

A good vendor can switch the ho for chestnut for a nominal cost. Or go with ho. They do show dirt from use and sharpening but are also low maintenance.

 

[KimBronnum]

At JNS the Mazaki Line has a 270 mm kurouchi for about 200 S and a 300 mm stainless at 390 S.If you are spending money on rehandeling the knife at leaset buy a decent one. Buying a too cheap knife will give you a poor experience.

 

[Ochazuke]

I vote for ho wood also. Even if you have zero interest in wa handles they’re pretty hassle-free and give you many more options. Also, I might consider 270. 300 is great if you’re doing an awful lot of sushi, but even most professional sushi chefs train on a 270 and I’ve known many to use it for a good portion of their professional lives. It’s less money and requires less technique to get a similar result when you’re at beginner level (unless you just like big knives, in which case do what makes you happy).

The last thing I’ll say is that many of the cheaper options that you listed are made completely differently. They end up looking similar but have issues with the grind on the ura side, tip issues and just many small quality issues that add up to a poor overall experience. If you really want a yanagi, then spend enough to get a real one, not a cheap imitation. I really like the Tsukiji Masamoto. Their entry-level 270 runs $300-$350-ish. If you really hunt and ask around and buy from a reputable vendor you could probably find better deals on yanagi from different makers, but for sushi chefs in Japan these knives have formed a standard by which others are often compared. FWIW I’ve also never run in to a bad example coming out of their workshop.

 

[Ochazuke]

Although from your original list, I think the Sakai Takayuki isn’t a bad choice for what you’re looking for.

But I also believe that having a good knife inspires you to have better use and sharpening skills.

 

[Qapla']

I've thought this over, and I've decided that I'll be sticking with the sujihiki and with Western-style knives.

Thanks for the information all!