Yoshikane white sharpening advice

[muru]

Hi All,

I recently picked up a yoshikane white #2 gyuto and I'm relatively new to sharpening.

I picked up a king kds 1000/6000 and need some advice on sharpening the yoshikane and also some general questions.

1. The yoshikane looks to be a wide beveled knife, so does that mean I should be thinning every time? Hard for me to even tell if it is a wide bevel or if it's just a faux one.

2. If so, I guess that means I have to move the shinogi up everytime which seems to start at the hammered finish. I guess I'm afraid I would have to ruin that if I have to thin at each sharpening. Not even sure how one goes about moving the shinogi into the hammered finish part of the knife.

3. If I have to thin each time does it make sense to use the same grits as I do on the edge so that I'm removing the same amount of metal from secondary bevel as primary edge? How does one gauge how much needs to be thinned each time? Is the 1000 plenty to thin with if I'm doing it at each sharpening?

4. Stropping, I've just been using a cardboard cut from an amazon box after using cork and trailing strokes on the stones to deburr. Is that right?

5. I havent really put the yoshikane on the 1000 stone yet, in theory if I'm sharpening often could one just use the 6000 to keep the edge sharp if done often enough?

6. I've used the 1000 on some shun vg10 and a cheap 420 knife (shun worked out better but itd likely because it was in much better condition to begin with), looking for some beater carbons to practice on, maybe a k-sabatier. Anybody know a good place to find cheap beaters to practice on or have recs on cheap beaters that could also be used as a beater... going to probably pick up opinel pairing.

7. Was able to get a nice blue patina on the iron cladding which as suprising since I read mostly the cladding doesnt usually patina well

8. Also a bit off topic does anyone know if yoshikane does their own lamination or is it prefab?

9. I don’t know why but the “3 finger test” from Murray carters videos don’t seeM to work for me. I seem to be able to slide my fingers on the edge on knives that will push cut paper just fine.

10. thinking about getting a loupe to help me check out my consistency, think thatd help at all?

11. when forming a burr is it super important that the burr feels even at each point along the edge? Guessing that indicates and even amount of metal removed at those points?

.

Thanks

 

[IronBalloon]

Just in relation to point 9, I find seeing how the knife moves through paper is helpful. You can also kind of feel if there are any inconsistencies, snagging, tearing instead of cutting, basically if it moves through paper the whole length with the same kind of feel then I assume I’ve sharpened more or less evenly across the edge.


Also your last point, I always try for evenness but I hadn’t really thought about it before. I’d be interested to know anyone else’s thoughts on the matter.

 

[M1k3]

I'm no expert and my priorities for a knife is cutting performance over aesthetics. I'd thin the wide bevel every time I sharpen, not just touching up the edge. Trying to remove as much metal from the sides as the edge would lose from sharpening, as miniscule as that is. It'll save you from having 2+ hour long thinning sessions. I wouldn't keep the bevels flat either, to much stiction. I'd follow this video regarding the Shinogi and ignore the ura part.

 

[ian]

1. The yoshikane looks to be a wide beveled knife, so does that mean I should be thinning every time? Hard for me to even tell if it is a wide bevel or if it's just a faux one.

Looks wide bevel to me, although I haven't owned one. It means you CAN thin every time, more easily than you could if it wasn't wide bevel. You don't have to, though, and you shouldn't if it's just a quick touch up on a high grit stone. I do usually like to sharpen the whole wide bevel with every sharpening in which I drop down to a 1k or lower.

2. If so, I guess that means I have to move the shinogi up everytime which seems to start at the hammered finish. I guess I'm afraid I would have to ruin that if I have to thin at each sharpening. Not even sure how one goes about moving the shinogi into the hammered finish part of the knife.

Don't stress about that. You'll only move the shinogi up a fraction of a mm if you sharpen the whole wide bevel. And if it goes way up into the hammered part after a few years of use in a pro kitchen, that's fine. It'll probably be more like a sujihiki by then anyway.

3. If I have to thin each time does it make sense to use the same grits as I do on the edge so that I'm removing the same amount of metal from secondary bevel as primary edge? How does one gauge how much needs to be thinned each time? Is the 1000 plenty to thin with if I'm doing it at each sharpening?

Just do this: sharpen the very edge very lightly, with just a few strokes on a stone that's at least 3k. Repeat as needed, until you feel like it doesn't move through dense product as well. Then drop down to a medium grit stone and do the whole wide bevel till you nearly (or completely, if you prefer) erase the primary bevel. Then sharpen briefly on a higher grit stone. The "repeat as needed" could include 5 repetitions, or just 1... it's up to you.

4. Stropping, I've just been using a cardboard cut from an amazon box after using cork and trailing strokes on the stones to deburr. Is that right?

Seems fine. If you think it improves it, keep doing it. I don't use cork anymore, though. Try to get the burr off with edge leading strokes on stones instead.

5. I havent really put the yoshikane on the 1000 stone yet, in theory if I'm sharpening often could one just use the 6000 to keep the edge sharp if done often enough?

Yes, if you are really thinning almost every time. Otherwise, it'll take forever once you thin. But don't be afraid of lower grit stones.

6. I've used the 1000 on some shun vg10 and a cheap 420 knife (shun worked out better but itd likely because it was in much better condition to begin with), looking for some beater carbons to practice on, maybe a k-sabatier. Anybody know a good place to find cheap beaters to practice on or have recs on cheap beaters that could also be used as a beater... going to probably pick up opinel pairing.

Get some cheap carbon. Ebay can be good, or post a WTB here.

9. I don’t know why but the “3 finger test” from Murray carters videos don’t seeM to work for me. I seem to be able to slide my fingers on the edge on knives that will push cut paper just fine.

Paper doesn't require much to get through. That said, the Carter test is testing more for microserrations than for keenness.

10. thinking about getting a loupe to help me check out my consistency, think thatd help at all?

I do use mine from time to time, but infrequently. It was useful at the start, though, to reassure me that I was doing the right things.

11. when forming a burr is it super important that the burr feels even at each point along the edge? Guessing that indicates and even amount of metal removed at those points?

Yes, otherwise you'll change the profile of the knife over time. That said, after many strokes the size of the burr isn't indicative anymore of the amount of metal you've removed. So make sure when you're just forming the burr that it forms sort of evenly more or less at the same time.

 

[Nemo]

Hi All,

I recently picked up a yoshikane white #2 gyuto and I'm relatively new to sharpening.

I picked up a king kds 1000/6000 and need some advice on sharpening the yoshikane and also some general questions.

1. The yoshikane looks to be a wide beveled knife, so does that mean I should be thinning every time? Hard for me to even tell if it is a wide bevel or if it's just a faux one.

2. If so, I guess that means I have to move the shinogi up everytime which seems to start at the hammered finish. I guess I'm afraid I would have to ruin that if I have to thin at each sharpening. Not even sure how one goes about moving the shinogi into the hammered finish part of the knife.

3. If I have to thin each time does it make sense to use the same grits as I do on the edge so that I'm removing the same amount of metal from secondary bevel as primary edge? How does one gauge how much needs to be thinned each time? Is the 1000 plenty to thin with if I'm doing it at each sharpening?

4. Stropping, I've just been using a cardboard cut from an amazon box after using cork and trailing strokes on the stones to deburr. Is that right?

5. I havent really put the yoshikane on the 1000 stone yet, in theory if I'm sharpening often could one just use the 6000 to keep the edge sharp if done often enough?

6. I've used the 1000 on some shun vg10 and a cheap 420 knife (shun worked out better but itd likely because it was in much better condition to begin with), looking for some beater carbons to practice on, maybe a k-sabatier. Anybody know a good place to find cheap beaters to practice on or have recs on cheap beaters that could also be used as a beater... going to probably pick up opinel pairing.

7. Was able to get a nice blue patina on the iron cladding which as suprising since I read mostly the cladding doesnt usually patina well

8. Also a bit off topic does anyone know if yoshikane does their own lamination or is it prefab?

9. I don’t know why but the “3 finger test” from Murray carters videos don’t seeM to work for me. I seem to be able to slide my fingers on the edge on knives that will push cut paper just fine.

10. thinking about getting a loupe to help me check out my consistency, think thatd help at all?

11. when forming a burr is it super important that the burr feels even at each point along the edge? Guessing that indicates and even amount of metal removed at those points?
Thanks

1. You can thin every time you sharpen. I don't. I only thin when using a medium or coarser stone to sharpen. Touch ups on a fkne stone don't remove that much metal.

2. My Yoshi Tsuchime (an SKD) is a convex wide bevel. I thin it like a single bevel. Watch JKI's videos on single bevel sharpening. Remember that where you put the pressure determines where the steel gets removed. If you put pressure just below the shinogi, you will remove steel just below it. Pressure just above the edge removes metal at the edge. Pressure halfway between removes metal halfway between.

3. When I thin, I thin to a zero grind (until you just get a burr), then put on a microbevel (or a very small primary bevel).

4. There are lots of options for stropping. Ceral box cardboard works pretty well. Especially if loaded with diamond paste. Stropping is great for showing off how well you can push cut paper but completely unneccessary for kitchen knife use.

5. Use your 6k to touch up when it gets dull. Move to a 1k when you cn no longer refresh the edge with a 6k in short order. I actually think a 3-4k edge is better for kitchen use, but 6k will do fine, especially for white steel (and I sometimes use an 8k).

6. Learn to sharpen on nice steel. It's easier and you will get better results faster.

9. Sharpening- doesn't take long to learn the basics but takes a long while to master. Years. Decades. That's part of the beauty. You can get into it easily but there is always more to learn.

 

[Jimboss]

How do you like the knife? I have the same one currently being sent to me, looking forward to it (hopefully) arriving soon!

In regards to patina forming on the cladding, often cladding is made of less reactive steel than the cutting edge but I believe iron is one of the most reactive cladding's out there so this should be expected.

As others have suggested the JKI single bevel sharpening vid is a great resource, i'd also highly recommend watching the entire sharpening playlist if you're somewhat new to sharpening as it is very comprehensive and also contains a lecture on single bevel sharpening. Recently there was also a live sharpening demonstration put up, and while not specifically focused on wide bevel knives I found this helpful for putting everything together and reiterating stuff like body positioning that's easy to forget about while learning sharpening.



I'd recommend trying the fingernail test as opposed to the 3 finger test as its a similar concept but much easier to do and has really helped my sharpening technique a lot. Firstly, it ensures that you're still getting some bite on your edge, so that its actually useful for kitchen knife purposes. Secondly, it really indicates whether or not you have a clean edge and have properly deburred so you can identify if you are making errors.

For deburring, I would just strop on stones using edge trailing strokes and then remove burr using cork or the back of sponge trick as described by Jon in his videos. From my understanding, especially while learning, just stropping on stones will be more beneficial to you as it won't cover up bad technique/habits from sharpening.

I also found this article helpful regarding edge leading vs edge trailing strokes, not sure how applicable this is for deburring specifically but I've just done edge trailing exclusively and not had any issues. Sharpening with the King 1k/6k combination stone

Here's a thread asking a similar question and Jon gives a great answer worth checking out:

 

[muru]

Thanks all.

@Jimboss I don’t have much to compare it too other than a shun classic and Vic fibrox and other knives of the like. The lack of weight was the first thing I noticed even though it was the same length as all my other knives it felt much smaller. fit and finish was excellent and as I mentioned before I was surprised that the cladding patinad in blu. I’ve heard iron cladding got an ugly “dirty” patina.

I will definitely try the hamaguri edge in Jon’s videos, the knife is already hazy below the shinogi so I shouldn’t mess up the finish that bad! Will thin it together with the edge with a 1000 side whenever the edge is needing it. Hopefully 1000 should be low enough.

I’ll try the cereal box did not know it would be any different than any other cardboard

Will pick up a carbon opinel paring and carbon k-sab to practice with, kinda want a new toy that will compliment the yoshi anyway.

 

[muru]

Paper doesn't require much to get through. That said, the Carter test is testing more for microserrations than for keenness.

ah okay, I think explaining it that way makes a lot more sense.

In that case, I can definitely feel the blade grab/feel a bit jaggaedy on the finger tips after the 1000 grit on my cheap knives, if that's what I'm looking for when I did that three finger test.

I was sitting there thinking it's supposed to be so sharp I can barely touch it without cutting myself on that test.