8k reccomendations

[Loam]

Hello,

I'm looking for a good 8k synthetic whetstone for early stage polishing before I jump to Awasedo (I'm planning to buy my first JNATs but I wanted to cover one more step in my synth progression).

At the moment, my set is: Atoma 140, Shapton Glass 220, Naniwa Pro 400, Naniwa Pro 800, Naniwa Pro 3000, Arashiyama 6000.

 

[Benuser]

The grit of the Shapton Pro 12k is close to 8k. I love the stone a lot, but have no experience with Japanese naturals.

 

[Kawa]

Kitayama 8000.
As a brother of the arashiyama 6000, it should be a nice step up.

I only hope the jump isnt too small. Havent used the arashiyama personally

 

[daveb]

I'm not much of a polisher but would think that jumping off at the 6K would be fine. When I do polish, my last syn in Moerhi (sp?) 4K.

 

[KasumiJLA]

I have the complete lineup of Naniwa super and the 8k produce a nice result, especially with running water on top without slurry. If you alternate scratch pattern the mirror is pretty damn good. I usually go on my 8k too before going to jnat and it's perfect.

Here's the results after 12k, without worried too much to have a "perfect" mirror

 

[mockit]

Yeah 6k is plenty for a switch to naturals. Maybe you can go straight to a finisher if you go to 8-9k on synths? Someone else can chime in here to correct me if I’m wrong but I think minimum 2-3 naturals is what people recommend because it’s not just about polishing the core steel. It’s about creating contrast between the cladding and core while also removing scratches. Synths are not as ideal for that. I know Naader and Milan both make the switch after a naniwa 3k superstone, which has a 5k+ scratch pattern. I’m sure the Arashiyama is plenty. Your jump from 800 to 3k is the largest. The NP3k is a pretty fast stone but if you find yourself struggling to remove 800 scratches that is where I’d add another synthetic stone. My .02 as a fellow polishing newb also building a progression. So far the hardest thing for me is setting a bevel at low grits (500 or less) without rolling the shinogi!

Save your pennies for an intro softer/finer natural. They don’t come cheap!

 

[Kawa]

I have the complete lineup of Naniwa super and the 8k produce a nice result, especially with running water on top without slurry. If you alternate scratch pattern the mirror is pretty damn good. I usually go on my 8k too before going to jnat and it's perfect.

Here's the results after 12k, without worried too much to have a "perfect" mirror

Since you have the whole superstone lineup, I have a little side question for you:

Is there any noticable difference in mirror polishing from the superstone 5000 and up?
Since I think this stone already leaves a (close to) mirror polish. In good light it is mirror polish, in bad light you still see some scratches. But even a true mirror has that.
So, is there still a difference in 5,8,10 or 12k? Any of these that are especially noteworthy?

 

[KasumiJLA]

Since you have the whole superstone lineup, I have a little side question for you:

Is there any noticable difference in mirror polishing from the superstone 5000 and up?
Since I think this stone already leaves a (close to) mirror polish. In good light it is mirror polish, in bad light you still see some scratches. But even a true mirror has that.
So, is there still a difference in 5,8,10 or 12k? Any of these that are especially noteworthy?

To be 100% honest with you, you can stop at 5k and have good results. But since super stone are cheap, the 8k is a fun one to have and you can see a noticeable difference. Not that much if you work well on your 5k, but still!

If you want to touch up a sashimi knife, the 8k is super handy. Of course you can do it on natural but the 8k have this option. I never use my 12k beside refining the mirror or to have fun experimenting with it for polishing.

 

[lesslemming]

No need for an 8k in your setup if you finish with a JNAT.

That being said, the 8k Kitayama is nice, the 8k Naniwa super will polish like no tomorrow, the 8k Shapton glass (both grey and white) are okay but nothing special, and not something I would use before another finisher but rather as finisher in and of itself.

What is it you’re trying to do? Sharpen just the micro bevel and go for the highest mirror possible?

Or prepare a fully flattened bevel for a kasumi finish? For the latter, anything beyond 2-3k is usually not beneficial. Your arashiyama might be an exception if used with a lot of slurry, though

 

[Loam]

I would like to have a set for both mirror finish and kasumi finish. Greg, which you may know (he has a YT channel on JNATs), gave me the advice to look for an 8k, that will help me a lot not to overconsume my JNAT trying to work on scratches left from the 6k.

 

[lesslemming]

I don’t want to start an argument but unless you have a very slow and very fine stone (and even then) I *highly* doubt you will ever wear out a normal jnat with normal use.

Many jnats, including the fabled uchigumori are much coarser than you’d expect and do not benefit from anything too fine. On the contrary, you are sometimes prone to inducing scratches from attempting to polish a wide bevel.

The elusive kasumi is influenced by many factors; a mirror polish before you go to jnats is rarely one of them (unless you’re only treating the cladding with finger stones to conserve the mirror on the core).

Anyway, there’s excellent 8k options out there if you fancy it

 

[ethompson]

I'm looking for a good 8k synthetic whetstone for early stage polishing before I jump to Awasedo (I'm planning to buy my first JNATs but I wanted to cover one more step in my synth progression).

I've never one to stop someone from buying more stones, but unless the 6k Arashiyama is coarser than I think it would be you don't need an 8k unless you're trying to jump straight to something insanely fine that would also be suitable as a razor finisher.

As others have mentioned here any reasonably soft suita or tomae will erase a clean 6k scratch pattern in short order. Just make sure to alternate scratches between each stone so you can be sure you got them all out and I'd recommend alternating scratch patterns on your 6k before jumping to JNats (ie - 3k parallel, 6k perpendicular, 6k parallel).

I get the impulse to "save" the JNat and use higher grit synthetics, but if you're working clean enough with synthetics 6k is plenty high to jump off to all but the finest stones. Working clean enough with something like the Naniwa 3k something like a Maruo shirosutia or other softer chalkier suita will do the job also. If you're spending a long time (>10 minutes / side) to erase 6k scratches with a JNat you probably need to reevaluate the thoroughness of your base polish.

I don’t want to start an argument but unless you have a very slow and very fine stone (and even then) I *highly* doubt you will ever wear out a normal jnat with normal use.

You can certainly wear through the softer ones, but they absolutely last much, much longer than synthetic stones and unless you a polishing a knife a week for years you shouldn't be worried about wearing them out. And if you are polishing that much then buying another probably isn't a big deal.

Someone else can chime in here to correct me if I’m wrong but I think minimum 2-3 naturals is what people recommend because it’s not just about polishing the core steel. It’s about creating contrast between the cladding and core while also removing scratches. Synths are not as ideal for that.

Eh, I, personally, think too much is made of "progressions." I could probably pick two stones from my stable and achieve most of the same finishes I can do now with 30+. Using different stones makes things more enjoyable and maybe I couldn't unlock that final 10% that takes a polish from being good enough to get some likes on IG to something I stare at for 30 minutes in my windowsill, but overall I think a good soft to middle-soft Kyoto stone will take most people a long way if they learn to play with slurry. Add in a harder finisher and you've got another range of finishes. In my experience, the final stone dictates the finish and what came before doesn't really matter. Actually did this experiment last week with a Heiji carbon clad. Went 3k diamond > Aizu > Shoubu iromono on the left side and 6k diamond > Shoubu not he right side and I couldn't tell the difference between the two at the end.

 

[KasumiJLA]

Actually did this experiment last week with a Heiji carbon clad. Went 3k diamond > Aizu > Shoubu iromono on the left side and 6k diamond > Shoubu not he right side and I couldn't tell the difference between the two at the end.

This is really interesting because it helps to understand a little better how the stones interact with each other. I'm in that mood for this kind of experiment these days! For those interested, there is a discussion on the subject right here: Polishing progressions - do they really matter?

To add a bit of my experience and how I proceed, I don't always go up to 12k before going on the naturals. These days I do a lot of tests for my personal enrichment and I have a small observation:

- The more mirror you go, the longer it's gonna take on your nakato/awasedo to achieve the actual stone finish. It's as if the surface was too smooth and the abrasive particles had a hard time cutting. The stone will burnish much faster too. Does anyone have the same feeling as me on this?

 

[Nino-chan]

have you seen the Morihei 9k karasu? its a synth with natural powder in it, gives a great kasumi finish

 

[Nino-chan]

or if youre looking for polishers theres the naniwa superstone 8K, shapton glass 8k, naniwa hibiki 8k