About to order a Denka 240mm gyuto from teruyasu.net

[thisisfed]

Hi,

it took me months to decide and it will be a denka just because how awesome it looks (and cut?).
I know that many of you would say that I should go and look at a TF Denka before buying it but I found a guy who will be able to fix it, if needed.
So please spare any insults, I am a big wabi-sabi believer

I wanted to ask the community what would you write as an order note to try and get one as close as possible as a knife for life?
This what I was thinking but I am more than welcome to hear from some of you.

FUJIWARA ORDER NOTES
IF POSSIBLE:
- heel to spine: between 52mm and 53mm (made a cardboard mock-up and this works well in my hand);
- thin grind below kurouchi finish;
- please hand select one with a good profile.

IMPORTANT:
- the blade is fit for future maintenance, no dramatic low spots, straight, no over grind or recurve.

Thanks for your help!
Fed.

 

[jedy617]

Hi,

it took me months to decide and it will be a denka just because how awesome it looks (and cut?).
I know that many of you would say that I should go and look at a TF Denka before buying it but I found a guy who will be able to fix it, if needed.
So please spare any insults, I am a big wabi-sabi believer

I wanted to ask the community what would you write as an order note to try and get one as close as possible as a knife for life?
This what I was thinking but I am more than welcome to hear from some of you.

FUJIWARA ORDER NOTES
IF POSSIBLE:
- heel to spine: between 52mm and 53mm (made a cardboard mock-up and this works well in my hand);
- thin grind below kurouchi finish;
- please hand select one with a good profile.

IMPORTANT:
- the blade is fit for future maintenance, no dramatic low spots, straight, no over grind or recurve.

Thanks for your help!
Fed.

- the blade is fit for future maintenance, no dramatic low spots, straight, no over grind or recurve.

This is straight up something they will not be able to honor and might take it as rude. They do not finish on whetstones so low spots are something that will not concern them. It will happen grinding on a big water wheel. Thing grind? They should already be reasonably thin, but can go ahead and ask. Height they probably should be able to get fine. Good profile? What does that mean? I don't expect a denka to come with any recurve, where did you get that request?

And probably should ask in the kitchen knife section, might get more help. But why not just pick one up at a retailer and they can hand select a good one for you? Blade gallery in washington hand selects theirs with less wonkiness, at least I heard they used to. I would look for a good retailer that has them in stock and ask for one close to your specs.

 

[thisisfed]

- the blade is fit for future maintenance, no dramatic low spots, straight, no over grind or recurve.

This is straight up something they will not be able to honor and might take it as rude. They do not finish on whetstones so low spots are something that will not concern them. It will happen grinding on a big water wheel. Thing grind? They should already be reasonably thin, but can go ahead and ask. Height they probably should be able to get fine. Good profile? What does that mean?

And probably should ask in the kitchen knife section, might get more help. But why not just pick one up at a retailer and they can hand select a good one for you? Blade gallery in washington hand selects theirs with less wonkiness, at least I heard they used to. I would look for a good retailer that has them in stock and ask for one close to your specs.

Hey, thanks for your reply jedy617.
I am London based, I went to the shop and hold a Maboroshi 240 gyuto, it felt good. Also ordering direct would be risky from the f&f side but would save me £300.

Good profile just cause I read that some of them have a bit of a dodgy profile.

I am almost tempted, on the other hand, not to write any sort of note and see what I get from them.

 

[jedy617]

Hey, thanks for your reply jedy617.
I am London based, I went to the shop and hold a Maboroshi 240 gyuto, it felt good. Also ordering direct would be risky from the f&f side but would save me £300.

Good profile just cause I read that some of them have a bit of a dodgy profile.

I am almost tempted, on the other hand, not to write any sort of note and see what I get from them.

Do you know about isamitsu? They are a company started by 2 employees of Fujiwara. Not sure if you know, but Fujiwara san himself has not forged for a long time.

Reason I am recommending this is the knives are the same spec steel wise (stainless blue super clad) and forged and heat treated in the same way. However, they are more open to custom requests, and they offer a "fine finish" which I believe has some limited amount of whetstone work to get rid of some low spots from the getgo. They will be much more open to customizations as well as they are a newer shop with younger guys, and with more to prove. Oh and cheaper. Never held one, but I have heard very good things from people on the forum, and they say steel feels as hard or harder than TF.

I have ordered custom from Japan before and it's not like in the west, especially for knives. I think it's ok to have a few notes if you go for a denka, but I wouldn't say anything like don't do this and this. They have been making knives for decades and they suddenly aren't going to change fit and finish for you. If you want to make any custom requests, max I would say is height, and I guess can say you would prefer a thinner grind. But that's just me.

Good luck with whatever you do

 

[fortheloveofmoar]

This is the way.

I don’t mean offense and there is a dedicated following of TF TF TF TF TF TF

But……… for quite a bit cheaper you can go myojin better f and f and great grinds imo

 

[thisisfed]

Do you know about isamitsu? They are a company started by 2 employees of Fujiwara. Not sure if you know, but Fujiwara san himself has not forged for a long time.

Reason I am recommending this is the knives are the same spec steel wise (stainless blue super clad) and forged and heat treated in the same way. However, they are more open to custom requests, and they offer a "fine finish" which I believe has some limited amount of whetstone work to get rid of some low spots from the getgo. They will be much more open to customizations as well as they are a newer shop with younger guys, and with more to prove. Oh and cheaper. Never held one, but I have heard very good things from people on the forum, and they say steel feels as hard or harder than TF.

I have ordered custom from Japan before and it's not like in the west, especially for knives. I think it's ok to have a few notes if you go for a denka, but I wouldn't say anything like don't do this and this. They have been making knives for decades and they suddenly aren't going to change fit and finish for you. If you want to make any custom requests, max I would say is height, and I guess can say you would prefer a thinner grind. But that's just me.

Good luck with whatever you do

i have never heard of Isamitsu before, I will go and have a look. Thank you so much for sharing your perspective, I absolutely do agree with you and that's probably the reason why I decided to come here and ask for opinions.

I will stick to fewer notes and see how it goes.

 

[thisisfed]

This is the way.

I don’t mean offense and there is a dedicated following of TF TF TF TF TF TF

But……… for quite a bit cheaper you can go myojin better f and f and great grinds imo

Yes I have read all those TF TF TF and Wabi-Sabi posts. Do you actually think that Fujiwara-san is not actually making the knife anymore?

 

[fortheloveofmoar]

Jedy would know. But tbh wouldn’t surprise me . They got a lot of apprentices and I think he’s getting up there in age? But don’t take me word for it, I’m not an expert on it here there are far more knowledgeable people here

 

[jedy617]

Yes I have read all those TF TF TF and Wabi-Sabi posts. Do you actually think that Fujiwara-san is not actually making the knife anymore?

He literally hasn't forged in decades, and is a commonly known fact

 

[thisisfed]

He literally hasn't forged in decades, and is a commonly known fact

Thank you for letting me know. I guess he must have trained the now bladesmiths well. Do you think he is quality checking at least? It would be nice to know he is still involved somehow with his Denkas.

 

[Corradobrit1]

Welcome the Cult that is TF. Here are a few pearls......

As Jedy indicated communications with Japanese companies need to be handled respectfully and with some deference for the best results. Your requests are excessive and unlikely to be met, however you can mitigate disappointment to a degree.
First off you haven't said if you want a Western or Wa handle. Most of the wabi sabi complaints are with the bolster and scale installation.
Low spots are inevitable, its where you exist that is important. Avoid any blades that have an overgrind on the edge (2nd biggest complaint). Most I've seen are near the heel. Overgrinds higher up are unlikely to be a problem unless you go full Jnat kasumi, but sounds like you have a solution there should that be a thing.
Ask for thin behind the edge and they will usually accommodate.
The best way to proceed is ask for a pictures of a couple of examples they think will suit you. Get the measurements and weight (this will give you a clue how thick the blade is. Try to get pics of the spine, choil and edge resting against a flat surface (for confirming no overgrinds)
Start a conversation via email. TF are busy and the guys in the retail store are often at the factory so it might take a few days to a over a week for a reply. This is normal.
I would also look at Isamitsu. The 2 guys that started this young company are ex TF'ers and Yhuki was probably their most experienced blacksmith. F&F is a step up although a 3rd party does the bolster welding, likely the same as TF, so Yo's are more TF like. However the scale fitment and wood options are much better than TF's. So you get the best of both worlds, superlative HT, option of iron clad AS, excellent F&F and an opportunity to support a couple of great artisans. The only thing I would say is that I prefer the denty TF finish on the Denka over a flat surface or their trademark hammered effect. Also you don't have the option of the signature TF finger nothch which I really like on a Yo handle.
Looking forward to see what you get. Find a good one and it will be buried with you, they are that good. Most of my blades at this point in my collection are TF or TF/Morihei, with a sprinkling of Kato's if that says anything.

 

[Corradobrit1]

Thank you for letting me know. I guess he must have trained the now bladesmiths well. Do you think he is quality checking at least? It would be nice to know he is still involved somehow with his Denkas.

TF IV counts the money and chisels your name on the blade if you wish. Thats about all he does these days. I was lucky that he was willing to thin my 210 Denka about 5 years ago, as Gaku was at the factory that week. Have to say he still has the touch. Wonderful job.

 

[thisisfed]

Welcome the Cult that is TF. Here are a few pearls......

As Jedy indicated communications with Japanese companies need to be handled respectfully and with some deference for the best results. Your requests are excessive and unlikely to be met, however you can mitigate disappointment to a degree.
First off you haven't said if you want a Western or Wa handle. Most of the wabi sabi complaints are with the bolster and scale installation.
Low spots are inevitable, its where you exist that is important. Avoid any blades that have an overgrind on the edge (2nd biggest complaint). Most I've seen are near the heel. Overgrinds higher up are unlikely to be a problem unless you go full Jnat kasumi, but sounds like you have a solution there should that be a thing.
Ask for thin behind the edge and they will usually accommodate.
The best way to proceed is ask for a pictures of a couple of examples they think will suit you. Get the measurements and weight (this will give you a clue how thick the blade is. Try to get pics of the spine, choil and edge resting against a flat surface (for confirming no overgrinds)
Start a conversation via email. TF are busy and the guys in the retail store are often at the factory so it might take a few days to a over a week for a reply. This is normal.
I would also look at Isamitsu. The 2 guys that started this young company are ex TF'ers and Yhuki was probably their most experienced blacksmith. F&F is a step up although a 3rd party does the bolster welding, likely the same as TF, so Yo's are more TF like. However the scale fitment and wood options are much better than TF's. So you get the best of both worlds, superlative HT, option of iron clad AS, excellent F&F and an opportunity to support a couple of great artisans. The only thing I would say is that I prefer the denty TF finish on the Denka over a flat surface or their trademark hammered effect. Also you don't have the option of the signature TF finger nothch which I really like on a Yo handle.
Looking forward to seeing what you get.

Thank you so much for your message, I understand and all I want is to be respectful. It will be a wa handle, sorry I didn't mention. Thank you for your suggestions, I am in touch with Ayano at the moment and let's see where the conversation goes.

 

[thisisfed]

TF IV counts the money and chisels your name on the blade if you wish. Thats about all he does these days. I was lucky that he was willing to thin my 210 Denka about 5 years ago, as Gaku was at the factory that week. Have to say he still has the touch. Wonderful job.

Where is Gaku now?

 

[thisisfed]

Welcome the Cult that is TF. Here are a few pearls......

As Jedy indicated communications with Japanese companies need to be handled respectfully and with some deference for the best results. Your requests are excessive and unlikely to be met, however you can mitigate disappointment to a degree.
First off you haven't said if you want a Western or Wa handle. Most of the wabi sabi complaints are with the bolster and scale installation.
Low spots are inevitable, its where you exist that is important. Avoid any blades that have an overgrind on the edge (2nd biggest complaint). Most I've seen are near the heel. Overgrinds higher up are unlikely to be a problem unless you go full Jnat kasumi, but sounds like you have a solution there should that be a thing.
Ask for thin behind the edge and they will usually accommodate.
The best way to proceed is ask for a pictures of a couple of examples they think will suit you. Get the measurements and weight (this will give you a clue how thick the blade is. Try to get pics of the spine, choil and edge resting against a flat surface (for confirming no overgrinds)
Start a conversation via email. TF are busy and the guys in the retail store are often at the factory so it might take a few days to a over a week for a reply. This is normal.
I would also look at Isamitsu. The 2 guys that started this young company are ex TF'ers and Yhuki was probably their most experienced blacksmith. F&F is a step up although a 3rd party does the bolster welding, likely the same as TF, so Yo's are more TF like. However the scale fitment and wood options are much better than TF's. So you get the best of both worlds, superlative HT, option of iron clad AS, excellent F&F and an opportunity to support a couple of great artisans. The only thing I would say is that I prefer the denty TF finish on the Denka over a flat surface or their trademark hammered effect. Also you don't have the option of the signature TF finger nothch which I really like on a Yo handle.
Looking forward to see what you get. Find a good one and it will be buried with you, they are that good. Most of my blades at this point in my collection are TF or TF/Morihei, with a sprinkling of Kato's if that says anything.

I had a look at Isamitsu and although the might be great knives they do not have the same appeal. I became a cultist myself.
In terms of weight of the knife, are there any recommendations that you want to share? What would it be a good weight for a not too thin, not too thick 240mm gyuto with wa?

 

[Corradobrit1]

Where is Gaku now?

One of the founders of Isamitsu

 

[Corradobrit1]

I had a look at Isamitsu and although the might be great knives they do not have the same appeal. I became a cultist myself.
In terms of weight of the knife, are there any recommendations that you want to share? What would it be a good weight for a not too thin, not too thick 240mm gyuto with wa?

220-240g would be the sweet IMO although I'm more of a Yo handle aficionado which tend to be a little heavier.

 

[thisisfed]

220-240g would be the sweet IMO although I'm more of a Yo handle aficionado which tend to be a little heavier.

Thank you so much for all these inputs. I will keep the conversation going with the customer service and see what I will get in the end. There's a very talented guy in the UK who can help if things should go south: https://www.rockchopknifecompany.co.uk/

 

[thisisfed]

220-240g would be the sweet IMO although I'm more of a Yo handle aficionado which tend to be a little heavier.

In terms of the Yo handle I would go Wa just for aesthetic reasons and just because it will be easier to replace. Is it for you just how it feels in your hand?

 

[Corradobrit1]

In terms of the Yo handle I would go Wa just for aesthetic reasons and just because it will be easier to replace. Is it for you just how it feels in your hand?

I like a machi for better control and the Yo isn't so blade forward like on the Wa, although still ahead of the choil.

 

[thisisfed]

I like a machi for better control and the Yo isn't so blade forward like on the Wa, although still ahead of the choil.

Oh no finger rest?

 

[OkayMode]

With TF, you may be best off paying the premium from a shop, bearing in mind the £300 saving you mentioned may well be wiped out by import fees from Japan when ordering direct (plus the fact you can hand pick your copy).

Kitchen Provisions are a great store and will see you right.

 

[thisisfed]

With TF, you may be best off paying the premium from a shop, bearing in mind the £300 saving you mentioned may well be wiped out by import fees from Japan when ordering direct (plus the fact you can hand pick your copy).

Kitchen Provisions are a great store and will see you right.

I went to KP to feel the knife recently. They do not have a 240mm denka at the moment, and they will most probably never order one again in the future as the owner said to me.

Chatting with Teruyasu customer service they will value the parcel lower and potentially send it as a gift so I should be fine in terms of fees.

But I know what you mean and I am aware it will be a gamble.

 

[kdizzog6]

Let is know how it goes, I read people visiting japan to hand select a denka, or a few. I also read they keep the good ones for in house sale. But good luck on your search, and your right, if a little work needs to be done to get it top notch, it is probably worth the time and money to get it exactly the way you want it.

 

[thisisfed]

Thank you @kdizzog6, I will keep you posted!

 

[jedy617]

Hmm why doesn't kitchen provisions want to get any more?

 

[M1k3]

Your best bet is giving rough dimension requests, then asking if they can take pictures of available options. Then looking through those pictures and picking one.

 

[thisisfed]

He mentioned that he was very disappointed with the last £10.000 order he made with Fujiwara, he tried to complain and it didn't work. This might be one of the reasons, also they sell the 210mm version at £830 which is a bit crazy to me. Not an easy sell I guess.

Or he was just trying to put pressure on me to buy the 240mm Maboroshi that I was holding in my hand.

 

[thisisfed]

Your best bet is giving rough dimension requests, then asking if they can take pictures of available options. Then looking through those pictures and picking one.

Do you think they will have some in stock ready to send or they are all made to order? I will do this, thank you so much for all the suggestions.

PS: do you know if they still do red wa handles? It doesn't seem to be an option on their website.

 

[jedy617]

He mentioned that he was very disappointed with the last £10.000 order he made with Fujiwara, he tried to complain and it didn't work. This might be one of the reasons, also they sell the 210mm version at £830 which is a bit crazy to me. Not an easy sell I guess.

Or he was just trying to put pressure on me to buy the 240mm Maboroshi that I was holding in my hand.

I love that after hearing that you are determined to buy one lmao