Atoma plate bought in Japan is more aggressive.

[PalmRoyale]

One of my employees ordered an Atoma 1200 plate from fine-tools in Germany and there's something strange going on. My Atoma 1200 comes straight from Japan and sharpens more aggressively even though it's almost 2 years old. I have another also from Japan (got a discount on the second one) and the difference with that one is like night and day even though both are brand new. Sometimes you have chisel blacksmiths who sell their cheap stuff to unknowing people in the West. I wonder if Atoma is sometimes selling their lower quality plates here. He's sending it back to exchange it for another one, if there's a big difference again fine-tools isn't getting Tsuboman's best stuff.

 

[inferno]

 

[Michi]

I wonder if Atoma is sometimes selling their lower quality plates here.

Not impossible, but it seems unlikely to me. It almost certainly would be more trouble than it's worth to make two models that are almost—but not quite—the same. I would think it more likely that there are variations across batches?

 

[inferno]

Batch variance or that they improved their manufacturing maybe?

 

[PalmRoyale]

My plates are 2 years old. One is used a lot and the other is a backup. If the manufacturing was improved my employees plate should perform better.

 

[Chicagohawkie]

Who knows, manufacturing could be outsourced in different regions? All companies look to increase margins by going with cheaper components and material sources, maybe they’re using cheaper diamonds or adhesives. These will last for years using care. They won’t last if they are abused. Too many variables here.

 

[Luftmensch]

My plates are 2 years old. One is used a lot and the other is a backup. If the manufacturing was improved my employees plate should perform better.

All companies look to increase margins by going with cheaper components and material sources

Indeed... Hehe... Don't discount the possibility that Tsuboman are cutting costs (heck... everybody else is!). If you are comparing products across time, change in manufacturing to reduce costs (not necessarily to the consumer) could be explanation enough...

 

[Chicagohawkie]

Indeed... Hehe... Don't discount the possibility that Tsuboman are cutting costs (heck... everybody else is!). If you are comparing products across time, change in manufacturing to reduce costs (not necessarily to the consumer) could be explanation enough...

Yep, all one has to do is look at Japanese knife making in terms of cost cutting. One major manufacturer recently came out and said that several years ago much of the knives were forge welded by hand, now he says most is made with prelaminated steel.

 

[inferno]

My plates are 2 years old. One is used a lot and the other is a backup. If the manufacturing was improved my employees plate should perform better.

i think I got my 400 about 2 years ago too from germany. Fine tools i think. Mine was VERY aggressive when new.
For a complex process that this is when plating these diamonds to the plates I would be surprised if they used a "lower grade" process for exports. Since the cost would be the same for both of them.

Maybe they hand select the crappy stones for export?

Intel for example only makes like 3 cpus and when they work as supposed its the gazzilion core highest ghz one. And when they don't: they clock them down, and disable cache and cores. And voila now we have 40 different cpus. I guess it work similar to that too at tsuboman.

 

[inferno]

Yep, all one has to do is look at Japanese knife making in terms of cost cutting. One major manufacturer recently came out and said that several years ago much of the knives were forge welded by hand, now he says most is made with prelaminated steel.

which maker was this??

this is not necessarily bad though.

 

[catalystman80]

I suppose it’s one thing to be aggressive (assuming you mean in cutting performance), and another thing with the finish. How do the finish compare, does the lesser aggressive one at least leave a finer finish?

I’d venture to guess whatever it is may be more due to either batch variance or change in materials/production process. I do recall someone saying at one point that were using adhesives between the top sheet and the base plate that would result in irregular wear or even the top plat coming off.

 

[PalmRoyale]

The finish of my more aggressive plates is obviously less fine but that's not important since it's just the first step of sharpening.

Also, my plates both have 3 strips of double sided tape on it. With this new one the entire back of the plate is covered with double sided tape. That flies in the face of cost reduction.

 

[catalystman80]

Gotcha, yeah I normally use 1200 for final lapping (or for raising slurry for straights honing when I don’t feel like doing the Mikawa/Tomo route) unless I decide to smooth it out further with a nagura, so I’d personally prefer a less aggressive but finer finishing 1200

Maybe I’ll have to get it from fine tools next time I need to replace my 1200....though probably not anytime soon, it’s worn out nicely for my use

 

[HRC_64]

keep in mind naniwa and shapton don't sell their jdm stuff overseas either ... so...
For Atoma, it could be a different SKU also or could be
they just are de-contenting the product to lower spec.

 

[Michi]

Maybe they hand select the crappy stones for export?

That's possible, but I think it's unlikely. When I have the choice between a conspiracy and stuff-up, 99.9% of the time it's a stuff-up.

Intel for example only makes like 3 cpus and when they work as supposed its the gazzilion core highest ghz one. And when they don't: they clock them down, and disable cache and cores. And voila now we have 40 different cpus. I guess it work similar to that too at tsuboman.

That's partly true, but a little over-simplified, I think. It's not a matter of black and white, but shades of grey. It's related to yield (what percentage of chips in a batch work for a particular performance threshold). A chip that works well at 3 GHz may fail at 4 GHz. Rather than throwing it away, they sell it as a 3 GHz one for less than one that works at 4 GHz.

The proliferation of models is also due to having models with low power requirements for portable devices, models for desktops, and models for servers. Plus models with different numbers of cores and cache sizes. These are not the same chips artificially crippled, and Intel most definitely make way more than three or so distinctly different CPUs.

Some of the model proliferation is also due to marketing pressures. If Intel don't have something that fills a niche that is currently filled by AMD, it can make sense (in a perverse sort of way) for them to quickly make a minor change to a chip and sell it into that niche even though, theoretically, they could just sell a more powerful chip for less. But doing that would hurt their profit in a different niche, so they don't, and they might even sell that particular model at a loss or very low margin.

They are not saints at Intel and, back in 2010 or so, they came up with the monumentally stupid idea to sell CPUs that blocked some features and then could be unlocked to their full potential by consumers for an extra $50. But that did not go down well with consumers and, as far as I know, Intel haven't done anything like that since.

 

[Luftmensch]

That's possible, but I think it's unlikely. When I have the choice between a conspiracy and stuff-up, 99.9% of the time it's a stuff-up.

Dont forget to add incompetence to that list!

Also, my plates both have 3 strips of double sided tape on it. With this new one the entire back of the plate is covered with double sided tape. That flies in the face of cost reduction.

I think that depends on the retailer - what they ask of Tsuboman. Mine are epoxied (or some sort of glue) to the aluminium plate. The diamond plates are 'the product' from a production point of view (not the aluminium backing). If you could save a few cents here and there, on manufacturing the diamond plates, that would be where the large savings (and increased profits) come. The bonding methods could be past on to the retailer as an additional minor cost I imagine? .... all massive speculation... suffice to say, I have seen a few different bonding methods between the diamond plate and backing plate!