bikes bikes bikes

[Famima]

Also also.... the other major evolution in the past while on road bikes has been geometry. Almost universally, higher-end bikes from the mid-2000s would have had relatively low stack heights for a given reach. The trend more recently, and focused on the more comfort/endurance oriented frames, has been for significantly higher stack heights. This is generally good and better for the less race inclined, and opens up wider frame choices.

 

[Luftmensch]

geometry

I know very little about road bikes... 'Geometry' is a bit of a mantra in mountain bikes. I suppose mountain bikes are a relatively young sub-category. They more or less started out as modified 'regular' frames. Since then frames have evolved to better enable the sport. They have become longer with slacker head angles and bigger wheels. This makes them less nimble but a lot more stable. Tyres, suspension and brakes have also improved. Dropper posts are a huge innovation (I hope the original designer made good money off the idea). All in all... I would say a modern mountain bike is a much more capable bike than a 20-year old one.

But as always... it depends on what your needs are. If you arent pushing the envelope, you can have a great time on a 20-year old mountain bike. If you just want to commute around town, you can ride any old thing!

 

[MarcelNL]

I always chuckle when I see overweight middle aged men puffing away on an expensive all carbon bike, they would be better off using a steel frame weighted down with lead.

Problem with buying used 'confection' frames or frames custom built for someone else IMHO is that they only work if your measures and style are standard/similar as well, there is only so much adjustment you can do. I used to ride confection bikes in my teens and tested a custom bike my dad had built (our measures were close enough and off by enough to make confection frames less ideal, long arms and legs) and boy what a difference that was, frame built by someone knowing what they did using the same tubing.

 

[Luftmensch]

I always chuckle when I see overweight middle aged men puffing away on an expensive all carbon bike

The other thing is.... if I need to lower my riding weight by 2kg.... then I probably need to lose 2kg of weight first! Not the other way around

Hehe... I guess it is status? Some of the cycling crews you see out and about are seriously fit people that include cashed up white-collars (like lawyers) - so they can afford all the high-tech toys.

 

[daddy yo yo]

I always chuckle when I see overweight middle aged men puffing away on an expensive all carbon bike, they would be better off using a steel frame weighted down with lead.

Problem with buying used 'confection' frames or frames custom built for someone else IMHO is that they only work if your measures and style are standard/similar as well, there is only so much adjustment you can do. I used to ride confection bikes in my teens and tested a custom bike my dad had built (our measures were close enough and off by enough to make confection frames less ideal, long arms and legs) and boy what a difference that was, frame built by someone knowing what they did using the same tubing.

THIS!!!

The 2 Trek road bikes I had, they were good at the time I bought them. I was young(-er) and (more) flexible back then. I had those bikes for 5-7 years each. At one point I rode the grey carbon bike and each spring I had massive problems adjusting to the position on the bike, I had neck issues and back issues. I had a bike fit analysis done and it became clear I had to adjust my position on the bike and therefore I had to exchange some of the components such as seatpost and stem. As you would imagine, a race geometry frame looks incredibly stupid with a lower seatpost and the saddle more forward, as well as with an uprising and shorter stem. But changing those things were a quick win and, boy, the difference was HUGE! In the end, looking at my bike in that configuration hurt my eye and I had a frame custom-built for me. The outcome is just perfect and it is worth every single cent!

 

[MarcelNL]

My grandfather used to race as amateur (Olympics of '28) and had several custom 'fixie' track bikes made by one of THE specialists in those days. When I was in my teens we restored one and the ride on that thing, even though gramps was like 25cm shorter, was amazing even when the bike looked horrible. It outperformed a high end-ish then modern (80-ies) confection street racing bike, having a frame properly fitted or better, have it's geometry and dimensions built to measure is IMO an investment well worth it!

 

[daddy yo yo]

The other thing is.... if I need to lower my riding weight by 2kg.... then I probably need to lose 2kg of weight first!

I always joked with my friends about that. My suggestion was, go to the toilet first and also shave your hairy legs, hahahaha (a friend had really H-A-I-R-Y legs).

 

[Famima]

I know very little about road bikes... 'Geometry' is a bit of a mantra in mountain bikes. I suppose mountain bikes are a relatively young sub-category. They more or less started out as modified 'regular' frames. Since then frames have evolved to better enable the sport. They have become longer with slacker head angles and bigger wheels. This makes them less nimble but a lot more stable. Tyres, suspension and brakes have also improved. Dropper posts are a huge innovation (I hope the original designer made good money off the idea). All in all... I would say a modern mountain bike is a much more capable bike than a 20-year old one.

But as always... it depends on what your needs are. If you arent pushing the envelope, you can have a great time on a 20-year old mountain bike. If you just want to commute around town, you can ride any old thing!

Yes, and geometry is two separate things too: 1) the ability of the frame to support (without compromise) a particular positioning of contact points; 2) the impact on the dynamic handling of the bike. More modern road bikes give a greater range in both, and allow more people to fit onto a stock frame, rather than having to go custom (which was more common in the past, because of the lack of range!).

You're always going to suffer if you buy based on marketing/what the pros use. The most extreme recent example I've seen is this:

https://www.lapierrebikes.com/gb-en/o/xelius-sl-80-2022/
I'm pretty flexible and I still race, but I'd never be able to get a proper fit on this frame, the stack-to-reach is ridiculous!

 

[Famima]

If you arent pushing the envelope, you can have a great time on a 20-year old mountain bike.

And just on this specifically, yes, I agree, but even if you aren't pushing the envelope a more modern frame (if chosen correctly!) can significantly enhance your riding comfort/pleasure, and expand your choice of frame.

 

[WPerry]

I always chuckle when I see overweight middle aged men puffing away on an expensive all carbon bike, they would be better off using a steel frame weighted down with lead.

No, they wouldn't.

There's a common misconception that a heavier bike provides a better workout, but anyone that trains with power knows that workouts are determined by intensity and duration, neither of which is directly affected by bike weight. If my 5min threshold is 350w, it's 350w regardless of the bike underneath me - a heavier bike will not allow me to go harder for the same duration, it'll just make me go a little slower.

Cyclists that need or want to get in to better shape are best served by a bike that they want to ride. If they love the feel of steel - cool. If lightweight and nimble floats their boat - awesome. If they think they look cooler and faster on a Ferrari red bike, that works, too. The important thing is getting their ass on the saddle - if they do that, they have my respect, regardless of their weight, their bike, how they're dressed, etc.

 

[LostHighway]

M

No, they wouldn't.

There's a common misconception that a heavier bike provides a better workout, but anyone that trains with power knows that workouts are determined by intensity and duration, neither of which is directly affected by bike weight. If my 5min threshold is 350w, it's 350w regardless of the bike underneath me - a heavier bike will not allow me to go harder for the same duration, it'll just make me go a little slower.

Cyclists that need or want to get in to better shape are best served by a bike that they want to ride. If they love the feel of steel - cool. If lightweight and nimble floats their boat - awesome. If they think they look cooler and faster on a Ferrari red bike, that works, too. The important thing is getting their ass on the saddle - if they do that, they have my respect, regardless of their weight, their bike, how they're dressed, etc.

More succinctly the advice attributed to the great Fausto Coppi "Ride your bike, ride your bike, ride your bike"

 

[Keith Sinclair]

One of the Americans think it was Bob Roll with Phil Liggett in Denmark at first part of TDF said that in Copenhagen bikes vastly out number cars.

 

[MarcelNL]

Seems to me that for any American counting bikes is a like ; 1-2 -3-MANY ;-)
Copenhagen is bike friendly, there are plenty of cars too (as in Amsterdam Copenhagen has quite impressive traffic jams)!

 

[swarfrat]

maybe i'm biting off more than i can chew here. it made so much sense though. i mean it would be cool to make my own frame, but i think it gonna be a lot of work. when i look at some frame builders pics, i see lots of special tools, and they all look expensive.
maybe i should just start small and make a fork

Hehehe,...

If you thought knives are a rabbit hole, wait'll you start playing with frame building.

 

[inferno]

yeah this will be quite deep. no sh1t. i'm willing to make the commitment though. i'm willing to do the work.

i already know how to weld but there is a lot in the design department i dont know.

 

[LostHighway]

yeah this will be quite deep. no sh1t. i'm willing to make the commitment though. i'm willing to do the work.

i already know how to weld but there is a lot in the design department i dont know.

You might want to take a look at Bicycling Science. The original was by David Gordon Wilson but I think there are co-authors listed for the more recent editions (now on the fourth). It isn't all frame design but he does get into trail and some other elements. There is also a book called How to Build a Bike but I've never looked at it. IME if you get trail right and have good alignment you're at least 90% of the way there as long as your tube lengths, angles and drop aren't crazy. Having access to a big surface plate is helpful but I've seen good frames made without one (save maybe for a final alignment check).

Edit: Lugged and brazed is more forgiving than welded, especially with the old school stamped lugs. Modern cast lugs aren't much more forgiving than welding. Don't rush the mitering, go slow with very frequent fit tests.

 

[inferno]

so today i picked up my welder. fronius transtig 170
https://www.fronius.com/en/welding-...al-welding/tig/transtig/transtig/transtig-170

edit: long story short: it going to be awsome.

i want to make frames out of steel in a similar design as these 3/4 below. imagine you mixed these in your mixer. not talking pioneer mixers here.

its gonna be fun this. and i will have to make a sh1tton of fixtures and aligning sh1t. but hey even paul brodie has to bend his frames into spec and he's done several 1000s of them.

yeah just wanted to give you a little update.

 

[Edge]

yeah this will be quite deep. no sh1t. i'm willing to make the commitment though. i'm willing to do the work.

i already know how to weld but there is a lot in the design department i dont know.

Since you like custom bikes, you may want to give this forum, and this thread a look. They do bike build offs. Here is the Journals to one style they are doing now. And you may want to explore the site to see some great bikes.

https://ratrodbikes.com/forum/forums/build-off-17-class-1-build-journals.230/

 

[inferno]

i haven't ordered an argon bottle yet. so i have not tried the actual tig function yet.

but today i figured i would try out the stick welding mode.

the contenders were:
old 80ies esab invertig ltl "some number between 150-180" (amps) or so. 3phase 400v (this is a first gen inverter)
kemppi minarc evo 180, 1phase 220v, modern stuff. top of the line.
fronius transtig 170. 1phase 220v. absolute latest tech stuff. top of the line.

so i just welded a few beads with some 48.00 type sticks, 2,4mm. 100 amps (quite hot for this diameter).

i think the kemppi was the best to be honest. is the easiest to start and then re-start. also easiest to work with when you accidentally weld the electrode stuck to the material.

the esab felt the smoothest while going somehow. and the kemppi second.

i guess i can set all the settings on the fronius, in the menus, to 100% replicate these 2 machines. talking "hot start current", "arc force" and **** like that. but i feel the kemppi was a better stick welder out of the box. it was tuned better in the factory config.

now since the fronius has some high freq modes for stick welding i had to try these out. i ran 100amps 10hz/100hz/500hz/1khz square wave pulse (only positive going, this is not an ac welder). couldn't really tell any difference at all compared to straight dc 0hz. except that it makes musical notes at 100/500/1khz when you weld.

and you have to increase your amps to go the same speed as 100amps straight dc. since now you are not at a 100 amps "average". you are at 50 amp average. i just cranked it up to the max, 150 amps. and then i could weld at approx the same speed as 100 amps straight dc.

don't know how useful pulse is with sticks to be honest. not very much in my findings. but there might be special cases though. and then i suggest just simply use another/better method of welding!

 

[Keith Sinclair]

I wouldn't know where to begin my younger brother is a good welder.

Didn't want to post until got some riding under my belt didn't even know after injuring my knee if it was possible. Bought a Lemond
road bike my size 2008 aluminum carbon fork. Bought it from a Russian guy who married a local gal. He has several bikes had changed cables brake pads & did nice job on handlebar wrap. Paid only 400.00 for it. First time on a bike since I was 59 injured my knee climbing pushing 39 chainring low to mid 20's on cassette. I felt uneasy with clip on shoes felt I might fall over. After First ride knew needed easier climbing gears in rear cassette also bottom bracket rebuild. Bike shop busy had it couple weeks. In the meantime I borrowed with option to buy a hybrid with disk brakes. That's what been riding last two weeks mon, wed, fri.
The road up tantalus is far worse than I've ever seen it. Truly dangerous on the downhill. Trees have overgrown & not trimmed in years. A retaining wall gave way passed the sumet area part of the road fell off so closed can't do decent on other side of mountain most turn around downhill on crappy pavement until you hit housing area.

I feel much safer decent on hybrid flat bar & disk brakes. Still take it slow you cold blow a wheel or tire hitting rough areas even pot holes. I ride flat pedals with light running shoes.
Lemond feels like 21-22#
Hybrid at least 30# aluminum with steel fork good considering rough ride most of the downhill. Got my Lemond back from shop today.

 

[WPerry]

I wouldn't know where to begin my younger brother is a good welder.

Didn't want to post until got some riding under my belt didn't even know after injuring my knee if it was possible. Bought a Lemond
road bike my size 2008 aluminum carbon fork. Bought it from a Russian guy who married a local gal. He has several bikes had changed cables brake pads & did nice job on handlebar wrap. Paid only 400.00 for it. First time on a bike since I was 59 injured my knee climbing pushing 39 chainring low to mid 20's on cassette. I felt uneasy with clip on shoes felt I might fall over. After First ride knew needed easier climbing gears in rear cassette also bottom bracket rebuild. Bike shop busy had it couple weeks. In the meantime I borrowed with option to buy a hybrid with disk brakes. That's what been riding last two weeks mon, wed, fri.
The road up tantalus is far worse than I've ever seen it. Truly dangerous on the downhill. Trees have overgrown & not trimmed in years. A retaining wall gave way passed the sumet area part of the road fell off so closed can't do decent on other side of mountain most turn around downhill on crappy pavement until you hit housing area.

I feel much safer decent on hybrid flat bar & disk brakes. Still take it slow you cold blow a wheel or tire hitting rough areas even pot holes. I ride flat pedals with light running shoes.
Lemond feels like 21-22#
Hybrid at least 30# aluminum with steel fork good considering rough ride most of the downhill. Got my Lemond back from shop today.
View attachment 191921

Groupset (minus the cranks) looks to be at least 5700, which is no more than 11 years old or so (it was the first generation where the shift cables went under the bar tape instead of jutting straight out). And HED wheels, too?! Beautiful bike and that's an absolutely screaming deal - kudos!!!

 

[Keith Sinclair]

Yeh it's a Shimano 105 black components.
Had never even seen a Lemond road bike guys at bike shop said I got a cool bike cheap I had noticed on Craigslist some really good deals on aluminum & steel bikes rim brakes. Anton had been riding it up Tantalus he warned me about condition of road. Nice guy making some cycling friends.

 

[Keith Sinclair]

I rode the Lemond up Tantalus today usually don't go on Sunday as more bikers up there going up & coming down. All my climbing in past was road bike with clip on pedals. Didn't think twice about it even riding on the road with cars. Now it's hard for me to get clipped
in as starting on an incline no flat road around. Once clipped in I'm fine. Like climbing hands on the top bar near the stem.
The lower climbing gears are easier on my knees. The road bike is lighter. Down hill different story. Hard thin road tires. From the Sumit two thirds the way down many switchbacks terrible road conditions. Last third smooth road you can pick up speed.
On Friday when took the Fuji hybrid up I stop often to check things out. On one part of bad road surface saw a ripped bikers jersey on side of the road. I know some bikers have been thrown. Used to only climb this part better decent on other side of mountain ridge more sweeping faster decent used to
love that. They are fixing retaining wall high up on mountain where part of the road fell off. I decided to buy the Fuji Absolute as it is more user friendly esp. on decent. It has many pluses considering my age & present road conditions.

It is heavier to lift into my Forrester than the lighter Lemond. The bike is new hardly ridden went down once decided to sell 2021 model. It is 650.00 new I offered 450.00 got it for 500.00. mechanical disks thumb shifter's that I really like intuitive easy shifting. Thicker tires. Aluminum with steel fork. I thought climbing without clip on not good, but was wrong can pedal up fine with light shoes on flat pedals. For now I'll use Lemond on a stand & plastic holder for front wheel to spin in lower gears to help get my climbing legs back. Waiting for the road to get repaired so can do decent on the good side on the Lemond.
Fuji

 

[Keith Sinclair]

First time using thumb shifter really like them.

 

[PineWood]

OK well I might get flamed here for posting an e-bike in this thread for cycling enthusiasts... but I'm not a racer or a mountainbiker, I use my bike to go to town, short rides etc.
I absolutely love my new bike, Ampler Axel, got it a couple of weeks ago.

I love the simplicity of the design: no gears, no screens (just a small screen built in the top tube), no suspension (just big tires), no visible battery (it's built in the frame). Relatively light at 14 kg. And it's so quiet with the belt drive. The motor assistance feels very natural, it's just like riding a normal bike but with the wind in your back.

 

[WPerry]

I think that e-bikes are great - they can replace vehicle trips, they can help get some asses off of the couch, they can assist those that might otherwise have difficulties with a given trip, they can extend the range of the more daring, they can help the less fit or injured keep up with/enjoy the company of their friends, etc.

My only problem with e-bikes is that you'll occasionally run across some asshat that doesn't have the smarts and bike handling skills commensurate with their newfound and unearned speed. Case and point, about a month ago, I witnessed some idiot crash at 20+ mph and dislocate their shoulder as they jumped off of, and then back on to, a bike bath to pass a slower rider.

 

[swarfrat]

..... My only problem with e-bikes is that you'll occasionally run across some asshat that doesn't have the smarts and bike handling skills commensurate with their newfound and unearned speed. .....

I don't know about your neighborhood, but around mine that's like 95% of e-bike riders.

 

[WPerry]

I don't know about your neighborhood, but around mine that's like 95% of e-bike riders.

It feels like that sometimes, but I'm all too aware of confirmation bias. Despite our 8 months of winter, we have decent cycling culture and infrastructure. When I really slow down and look, I see a lot of people riding respectfully: a surprising number of seniors getting exercise, a lot of utility cyclists commuting or running errands, and fair number of parents lugging their kids around, etc.

That said, I ride on the roads and I like to get out of the city, so I don't spend a lot of time on/around the metro paths that see a lot of recreational use.

 

[Keith Sinclair]

I have been feeling out when less traffic too early everyone going to work & kids to school more cars on the mountain too as lower slopes have people coming to work at several facilities. I time it to be at base 830 - 900 am. Same time as a tour operation that advertised e -bikes through a rain Forrest.
So far I've seen guy with as many as 7 e- bike tourist. Today had 4. It's a pretty cool experience gets good reviews. Been up there
7 times now it is hard for me my quads are sore from not biking so long even climbing in low gears. I'm stubborn give myself 2 months 3 times a week to get my climbing legs back, cardio & lung power. I'm breathing hard all the way up. Sometimes I think maybe I should have gotten a hybrid bike.

 

[Keith Sinclair]

e-bike