BST rules/etiquette/decorum

[Garm]

I regularly follow the great BST section on this forum in the hope of scoring one of the knives I really long for.
This thread/topic, however, is the result of a couple of listings I've seen recently(not necessarily just related to knives I'm interested in) which have left me wondering about what is acceptable behavior, both from the part of the seller and prospective buyers like myself.

I have read the BST guidelines and I'm fully in agreement with what is stated there.
There are nonetheless some instances where I feel it's difficult to judge if I would be in violation of rules/etiquette of commenting(negatively) by posting comments or questions that relate to the state and condition of the item being listed.

As an example, let's say a seller lists a knife as "like new in box" or "never been sharpened" and describes the knife as either very lightly used, while on the other hand the pictures in the listing shows eiher heavy thinning or tip repairs have clearly been done, or the finish on the blade road is completely different from a new example of the knife.
In the BST guidelines it's stated that "It is not uncommon for posters to leave out key information for purchasing decisions such as blade height, length, steel, etc. Questions to clarify the item being posted are welcome."

To me at least, the condition of the knife and the work that has been done to it is certainly "key information for purchasing decisions" even if it isn't specified in the BST rules. It won't make me less interested either necessarily. In my example above, if I were to ask the seller how he had gone about thinning, how many times it's been done etc, then I would directly contradict what they had stated in their listing. Would I be making a clearly "impugning comment on the perceived quality of the knife or perceived defects" as stated in the BST rules, or would they be clarifying questions that could potentially make me or others want to buy the knife?

I'm aware that questions can be posted via PM, but I also feel that forums like these are about open information that can benefit everyone. I completely agree that negative comments about a maker, the price of an item and so on should be kept off a BST listing, but I also think a listing should be as up front as possible(even if buyer beware always applies).

 

[dwalker]

I can't imagine calling out a clear misrepresentation is anything other than acceptable. I've seen examples of this with no ill intent by the potential buyer and no offense taken by the seller. Sometimes it is an honest oversight by the seller, sometimes not. I don't recall anything egregious recently but I don't look at every listing.

Do you have a specific example we can reference?

 

[tgfencer]

I think a key point here is that clarifications are different than accusations. If it’s an honest attempt for further information, especially if it’s information pertinent to other buyers, I don’t see it as harmful as long as it’s done respectfully and without the veiled assumption of malicious intent. Mistakes can and do happen, sometimes often, but outright purposeful deception is rare.

 

[chinacats]

My problem has been with people changing the original listing. In cases of multiple knives deleting sections after the knives have been sold....price removals...

 

[Matus]

My problem has been with people changing the original listing. In cases of multiple knives deleting sections after the knives have been sold....price removals...

I do not want to interfere with this thread as we would rather see what the option on this matter is. But I would like to mention that we try to keep en eye on price removal and set it back if it happens. However I have not yet seen that parts of description of listing would get changed (or removed) without the OP pointing the change out. If you notice something like that please let us know.

 

[Michi]

Occasionally (very occasionally), I've seen a knife advertised for considerably more than its then current retail price at a reputable shop. (Yes, with the knife in stock.)

I didn't say anything at the time, seeing that the rules strongly discourage negative replies on BST. On the other hand, I didn't feel all that great about saying nothing. Someone did buy the knife (but I don't know whether that was at the asking price.)

 

[Garm]

Thanks for the feedback everyone.
I would rather not point to a specific example at this time and in this context, but I feel much safer in being able to ask about these things should they arise again in future.
To be very clear, these are rare occurrences as far as I know and have only been the case in two or three listings I've seen in the past weeks.

 

[Xenif]

I'd say this, if a seller has been around here for sometime, interacted with everyone, has some sales history, etc. Then I feel pretty confident about dealing with those people.

However, every once in a while, someone comes along, they barely have any posts , and list items that just dosen't make much sense, questionable history, crazy inflated prices, etc.

I dont like the current trend of people deleting the prices post sale though.

 

[Michi]

Maybe a silly idea, but we could suggest to buyers to post the eventual purchase price. That would leave a record of what a knife actually sold for, instead of what the seller asked for it.

 

[gstriftos]

Easier solution, remove edit privileges from B/S/T section.

 

[Michi]

The real question here is what the intent of BST is. If it is to provide a market place where sellers and buyers can link up, I think it's doing that really well. If it is to establish a record of how much a particular kind of knife is worth, or to maintain some standard of integrity and honesty, maybe not so much.

I'm not making a value judgement here, either approach is valid. But, before tinkering with the BST rules, it would probably be good for the admins and mods to agree on what BST is actually meant to be. Once there is agreement of what the goal is, it'll be a lot easier to shoot for it…

 

[ian]

Easier solution, remove edit privileges from B/S/T section.

Not sure about that. I’ve realized that I left something out of the OP, or said something wrong, and was glad to be able to edit it. It’s also very useful to have the current sale price indicated in the OP, along with the list of knives not sold in a multi knife post. It’s a pain to have to scroll through multiple comments in order to find this info. The current practice of the mods requiring posters to only add the new prices (or add “sold”) to the OP seems like a good one to me, as long as they don’t mind enforcing the rules.

My gripes about BST are usually about lack of info rather than misrepresentation. And that thing where someone is selling like 10 knives with alterations like custom handles, and just posts a group shot, or a series of unlabeled individual shots, so I have to spend like 10 minutes figuring out which is which... I always feel like I need to write a novel when I sell (or rather, a long nonfiction volume), and while I’m not saying everyone should do that, more info = better. I think knives probably sell faster if there’s more info, too. Makes the buyer more confident about what they’re getting.

 

[bahamaroot]

I don't like multiple knife sales in one thread. I'd like to see each knife have it's own thread and then I can just look at the ones I'm interested in without all the extra clutter. And there can be lots of clutter sometimes with 4 or 5+ knives and lots of questions, price adjustments, bumps, etc!

 

[megapuff5]

Maybe a silly idea, but we could suggest to buyers to post the eventual purchase price. That would leave a record of what a knife actually sold for, instead of what the seller asked for it.

I second that. Am part if a bourbon BST group and there is a rule that the purchase price must be posted publicly.

 

[F-Flash]

Original purchase price of the item or the final purchase price between seller and new buyer? Or both?

 

[tgfencer]

I second that. Am part if a bourbon BST group and there is a rule that the purchase price must be posted publicly.

Original purchase price of the item or the final purchase price between seller and new buyer? Or both?

Maybe a silly idea, but we could suggest to buyers to post the eventual purchase price. That would leave a record of what a knife actually sold for, instead of what the seller asked for it.

I'm not a moderator, but this sounds like it would involve a lot of police work. I'm all for not allowing prices to be edited/deleted out of a post once an item is sold, but realistically it usually isn't too hard to figure out what price something sold for without it being explicitly stated. Generally, it's the original price or the last price drop listed.

Maybe this is devil's advocate of me, but if I want to make an offer above (or below) the asking price via PM, what business is it of anyone else's but the seller whose item it is?

 

[Barmoley]

I'm not a moderator, but this sounds like it would involve a lot of police work. I'm all for not allowing prices to be edited/deleted out of a post once an item is sold, but realistically it usually isn't too hard to figure out what price something sold for without it being explicitly stated. Generally, it's the original price or the last price drop listed.

Maybe this is devil's advocate of me, but if I want to make an offer above (or below) the asking price via PM, what business is it of anyone else's but the seller whose item it is?

I agree. It is just not practical and largely irrelevant. Some of the final deals are complex with partial trades or multi item trades. In addition the agreement that might be reached between parties that deal with each other a lot might not be relevant to "general" public. Original asking price and drops should stay and the rules state this, going deeper than this is not practical.

 

[Ivang]

I agree. It is just not practical and largely irrelevant. Some of the final deals are complex with partial trades or multi item trades. In addition the agreement that might be reached between parties that deal with each other a lot might not be relevant to "general" public. Original asking price and drops should stay and the rules state this, going deeper than this is not practical.

Yeah, deals can get quite complex, in addition, you can also get and give special deals from and to certain members you have dealt in the past and such, that includes intangibles that are part of the deals, and cant be put into a final buying price

 

[Corradobrit1]

I agree. It is just not practical and largely irrelevant. Some of the final deals are complex with partial trades or multi item trades. In addition the agreement that might be reached between parties that deal with each other a lot might not be relevant to "general" public. Original asking price and drops should stay and the rules state this, going deeper than this is not practical.

Agreed. I really don't need to see the final purchase price. I only need to know original asking price and any price reductions before the sale. If a knife sits at a certain price that is a useful data point and helps keep track of current market values.