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Schnabelhund

Schnabelhund

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Jun 27, 2019
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Location
Hsinchu
Hi everyone. I'm a long-time user of a Sakai Takayuki Inox Chinese chef's knife and while I am quite happy with it, I have been wanting to transition to carbon steel for quite a while. I've been thinking of getting a Japanese-made Chinese-style knife, but now that I'm going to Hong Kong for a few days, I was thinking of picking one up from the CCK shop in Shanghai Street. At around US$ 50, does anyone know how they compare to much pricier ones from Japan, say, a Sugimoto, Masamoto, or Kiya? Thanks in advance!
 
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Can only give you my experience with the cck not anything comparative. It felt like a bargain at $75. It gets crazy sharp but isn't the most durable edge. It sharpens really easily. Sorry for a jumbled response, this is an at work post.
 
Thanks for the reply, SeattleBen. Hm, one thing I really like about my stainless Sakai Takayuki is its edge retention, so I'm a bit more wary of buying the CCK now.
 
Fit and finish is what you’d expect. They do get crazy sharp though and I haven’t noticed any edge retention issues. I’m a home user though so I probably wouldn’t be a good judge of that. I visited CCK in HK a few months back. It’s worth a trip. They have a lot of unique stuff in the shop too. Definitely worth the money. I bought mine to try out cleavers before spending a lot more on a high end Japanese one. I still haven’t got around to that yet though.
 
Thanks for the replies. What I did want to avoid was to get a CCK just to eventually get a Sugimoto anyway, but I've changed my mind. It does seem like it'd be a good idea to get one to test the waters. So in which ways is a Sugimoto better, Danzo?
 
I have a small CCK, and the steel is on the softer side of carbon steel. It is super thin overall. The grind is kinda inconsistent on mine, so the choil shot is the thinnest of any knife I have, while the grind along most of the knife has a small bulge right behind the edge. It does get really sharp and sharpens easier than a lot of knives I have because it is relatively soft carbon. I think it might be a good beater knife. The Japanese-made Chinese chef knives tend to be on the heavier side, with one of the lightest ones being Ashi Hamono. The CCK is quite a bit lighter, so it has that going for it.
 
Hmmm… CCK knives are used by hundreds of thousands of people in Asia, including professionals. Surely, they must be good enough to use?

Why would I buy a Chinese cleaver that is made in Japan? Personally, if I want a Chinese cleaver, I'll buy one that is from China. Just as I buy Japanese knives that are made in Japan, even though I can buy "Japanese" knives from China…
 
Allow my superficial side to speak:

Part of the reason I sold my CCK is that I store everything on a knife strip, and whenever I looked up and saw the CCK sitting next to the Kochi, Gengetsu, etc... I recoiled in horror at its comparative ugliness.

Apparently, my dramatic side also wanted to have a word.


Michi said:
Hmmm… CCK knives are used by hundreds of thousands of people in Asia, including professionals. Surely, they must be good enough to use?
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CCK's are fantastic for what they are, but they seem mass produced without the obsessive attention to detail of the high-end Japanese knives I've tried. (Never had a Japanese cleaver, but want one at some point.) Many of us on this forum kill for the small details in either f&f or performance that only impact the user experience, rather than the quality of the product you put out using the knife. I mean, Thomas Keller's just using Mac knives, but we still feel like we need to use knives twice that price for some reason, right?
 
The CCK knives are a joy to use. If you are going for a status knife, this might not be your cup of tea. If you want a really solid performer you will be happy with the CCK.

The Japanese chuka bochos seem to have a lot more belly than the CCK, so you might want to consider that. I like a flat belly in this case.
 
Michi said:
Hmmm… CCK knives are used by hundreds of thousands of people in Asia, including professionals. Surely, they must be good enough to use?

Why would I buy a Chinese cleaver that is made in Japan? Personally, if I want a Chinese cleaver, I'll buy one that is from China. Just as I buy Japanese knives that are made in Japan, even though I can buy "Japanese" knives from China…
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In a way you wouldnt be a buying a chinese cleaver from japan you would be buying a chuka bocho, and there are most definetely some really nice ones out there that blow ccks away in many aspects. That being said op definetely pick you up some ccks while you are out there. They are extremely useful and practical and you will get your money out of them. There were times which i loathed my small stainless cck for its crudeness, but it just so overwhemingly practical. If i could only use/have one knife it would most likely be small cck cleaver.
 
I use cck daily it sits on the boardsmith.. I bought one for each of my sons. The neighbors sons now have them as well. Easy to sharpen and they get scary sharp.
It is what i take when i am cooking away from home. Best bang for your buck .
 
One thing to soften my sort of negative(ish) post above:

I had a ton of fun using mine when I had it. I eventually felt like my gyutos suited me better for a variety of reasons, but I’m glad I tried it. Also, they are cheap, so you should get one no matter what! It won’t break your bank! (I’m inferring this from the fact that you are even considering more expensive options.) You can sell it later if you decide to upgrade, or if you find out that you don’t want the hassle of carbon for some reason! Trying more stuff = better!

The KKF refrain, no matter the knife: “Knowledgeable sirs and madams, should I buy this knife?” “Yes.”
 
Shanghai street is the restaurant supply district of Hong Kong. Look around, there are a lot more cleavers there than just CCKs shop. You might find something your like better. After all, this is were a few thousand pro chefs in the area shop.
 
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Noodle Soup said:
Shanghai street is the restaurant supply district of Hong Kong. Look around, there are a lot more cleavers there than just CCKs shop. You might find something your like better. After all, this is were a few thousand pro chefs in the area shop.
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CCK is one of the more expensive shops in that area actually. I haven’t tried any of the others so can’t really comment, but there are lots of options. There are a lot of comments about how thin the CCK blade is, and that’s true for the slicers, but they also make a whole range of really heavy cleavers too
 
Thanks for your inputs, everyone! The consensus seems to be that using CCKs is a lot of fun and definitely worth the money. I'm looking forward to checking out the shops in the area ∶)
 
Schnabelhund said:
Thanks for the replies. What I did want to avoid was to get a CCK just to eventually get a Sugimoto anyway, but I've changed my mind. It does seem like it'd be a good idea to get one to test the waters. So in which ways is a Sugimoto better, Danzo?
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CCK is probably half the weight of a sugi. Thin thin thin. Sugimoto is a workhorse of a cleaver, pretty convex towards the edge and has some decent release because of it, but is taxing using for long periods of time. Both are great knives, and about as different as two vegetable cleavers can be. I would not replace the CCK with something like a sugi, but supplement.
 
I grew up using many diffrent CCK Knives, the Kau Kong Chopper is still one of my favs, they are decent knives for the money. Just want to clarify something for you here, CCK comes in many thicknesses and sizes. The one most people are refering to here are the carbon 1301s what chinese chefs refer to as Song Dou (桑刀).
Besides all the kitchenwares stores there, if you head slightly south theres the temple street markets, loads of great food. Clay pot rice and oyster omlette I will recommend. Maybe some spicy crab and cheap beers. Enjoy your time in Hong Kong.
 
Temple Street Market. Now you tell me! :)Missed that one! Its not real close to Shanghai Street but Leung Tim Choppers is worth a visit. I like their shop a little better than CCK. Super selection of cleavers and other Chinese pattern knives.
 
Michi said:
Hmmm… CCK knives are used by hundreds of thousands of people in Asia, including professionals. Surely, they must be good enough to use?

Why would I buy a Chinese cleaver that is made in Japan? Personally, if I want a Chinese cleaver, I'll buy one that is from China. Just as I buy Japanese knives that are made in Japan, even though I can buy "Japanese" knives from China…
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CCKs are fine for what they are and the price point being offered at - hence the mass adoption.

The later part is flawed logic imo, chinese cleaver just describes the profile just like a "chef knife" or a "slicer". Japanese smiths puts out cleavers that take a finer edge as well as longer edge retention in comparison.

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My host in Hong Kong, a delightful man and former chef, was so happy to hear I wanted a CCK he insisted on buying me the biggest slicer :)

Back in my kitchen, I took it for a spin and chopped some onions. When I was done, it looked like this:

qAY0Ihk.jpg


I thought I had been wiping the blade fairly regularly while chopping, but apparently I have to take better care of it. I wasn't sure if the orange bits were rust but I polished the entire blade shiny again and forced a patina onto it with an oxalic acid solution. It's a matt dark gray now and I'm quite happy with it, although I'm a little bummed about a few patches of a very slight yellowy-orangey hue. I might have gone a bit overboard with the patina, but I want to prevent rust above all else. Maybe I'll rub it down close to the edge to allow a natural patina to develop.

I know this isn't news to most of you, but man, is this thing sharp. This is my first carbon knife so I don't know if this is the norm, but if it is, I really should have tried it much earlier. Only time will tell how I'll do with the hassle that comes with it, but I'm definitely happy to know the difference. Thanks everyone for your help!
 
For localized brown rust (not patina), I wet my fingertip and dip into a little Barkeeper's Friend and lightly rub out the brown. Works well and looks good if you have a light hand.

Carbon is nice! It is worth the little extra work.
 
Vegetable cleavers can have harder steel because they don't go through lobster shells and bones (hopefully;)). Used carbon cleavers at work. At home not being used as much tended to get rust. Use a Sugimoto 3040 stainless vegetable cleaver these days.

Kept my CCK Kau Kong Chopper that I used for ginger chix. at work. Keep it oiled it is there when I need it and no other blade will do.
.
 
Michi said:
Hmmm… CCK knives are used by hundreds of thousands of people in Asia, including professionals. Surely, they must be good enough to use?

Why would I buy a Chinese cleaver that is made in Japan? Personally, if I want a Chinese cleaver, I'll buy one that is from China. Just as I buy Japanese knives that are made in Japan, even though I can buy "Japanese" knives from China…
Click to expand...
If that were the case we’d all be using Sabatiers
 
rickbern said:
If that were the case we’d all be using Sabatiers
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Got him... Yeah, tbere are definetely alot of great japanese cleavers out there. i own three that come to mind.
 
Keith Sinclair said:
Vegetable cleavers can have harder steel because they don't go through lobster shells and bones (hopefully;)). Used carbon cleavers at work. At home not being used as much tended to get rust. Use a Sugimoto 3040 stainless vegetable cleaver these days.

Kept my CCK Kau Kong Chopper that I used for ginger chix. at work. Keep it oiled it is there when I need it and no other blade will do.
.
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I've been looking for a Sugimoto CM4030 for quite some time now, just bought one on Rakuten, it's on way :)
 
Got mine from Rakuten too couple years ago. It a good little cleaver for home use, know a few people who use them at work too.
 
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