Choosing a CCK Cleaver for specific purpose

[JWK1]

Back in December of 2020 I started a thread about choosing a knife for cutting up pork shoulder roasts for making sausage. I tried some things, developed some methods, and found myself purchasing a Shibazi cleaver off of Aliexpress a few months later after seeing some youtubes on mincing meat with a cleaver.

Surprisingly (to me) I found myself using this cheap cleaver more and more. I started sharpening it more and more, then I started thinning it. I stopped on the thinning process because I find myself a bit dissatisfied with the edge retention. Easy to sharpen, but man this thing doesn't hold an edge worth squat. Thinning takes too much time. IMO, the knife isn't worth it. I'd rather buy a CCK that's thin already and go from there. After shredding half a cabbage for cole slaw I find myself having to wipe and hone with my ceramic stick to bring the edge back. After doing some research, I've concluded that the CCK slicers are much thinner, and I'm hoping the edge retention is a bit better. Mostly I'm counting on much better knife geometry. No complaints on the Shibazi though. Less than $30 to my door and I got to learn without a doubt that I love using cleavers.

My Shibazi measures 207mm from heel to tip and height is 88mm at each end and 89.5mm right in the middle. This is an OK size for small veggie chores, but definitely too small when it comes to shredding cabbage and cutting meat for sausage. Another reason for the CCK. I'm at a loss deciding on a CCK model. Using a gyuto is so different than a cleaver I can't translate. I settled into a 240 Masahiro carbon before transitioning to the cleaver almost exclusively.

The first thing I have to decide is whether to stick with one cleaver or get two. When it comes to a gyuto, I never wish for another size. 240mm always does it for me. I have no idea if it will be the same for the cleaver. My thought is to get a 1302 and a 1102 or 1103. I think even though the 1103 would be noticeably larger than the 1302, it would still be too close in size to have both. The other choice would be to get just one, which would be a 1301 or 1102.

Another thing that muddies the water a bit is availability and measurements. There seems to be only two sources for the sizes I'm interested in. One is CKTG, which has a couple of sizes I would consider, and the other is The Knife and Stone Supplies on the bay. One thing confusing is K&SS gives measurements on the 1102 as 132mm long and 118mm high, and the 1101 as being 240mm long and 120mm high. The CCK website gives these as 230 x 120 and 240 x 225 respectively. Are the manufacturing variances that great? Aside from variances, assuming the CCK website is accurate, what would be the big deal with a cleaver being 10mm longer? In the gyuto world, we go from 210mm to 240mm. From what I can gather, cleavers pretty much go up in 10mm increments. Someone please enlighten me. I don't get it. What would make someone choose between an 1102 or an 1101?

After all that, I have two questions for anyone that uses their cleavers regularly.

1. Is having the two different sized cleavers a practical consideration, or do you just find yourself using one for pretty much everything?
2. If you were to choose one CCK for the sole purpose of cutting up meat for sausage, which one would it be?

Thanks for any thoughts and/or advice on the matter.

 

[blokey]

Action sales has some for cheaper. Just one word of caution tho, if you are disappointed with Shibazi’s edge retention, CCK is not much better. They have much better grind but the steel is just passable. Take a look at the chopper kings on CKTG, they have some better steel options

 

[JWK1]

Action sales has some for cheaper. Just one word of caution tho, if you are disappointed with Shibazi’s edge retention, CCK is not much better. They have much better grind but the steel is just passable. Take a look at the chopper kings on CKTG, they have some better steel options

I checked out Action based on a previous post of yours. Their shipping charges are ridiculous. By the time I add that in, I might as well order from the guy on the bay. He has a much better selection and 100% positive feedback rating.

I've read various reports on the edge retention comparison between CCK and Shibazi, but I hear you. As I stated, the main reason is the "much better grind" as you put it. I'll take another look at the chopper kings on CKTG.

 

[Noodle Soup]

I can never remember CCK model numbers but I have pretty much a full collection of them. Its sounds like you are looking for what they call a barbecue cleaver. Made for chopping large quantities of meat at one time. The 1301 might also be a good choice, its a real beast size wise. Much larger than the 1302 I favor general home use.

 

[instantramen]

I have the CCK 1802 stainless slicer and 1904 light chopper. The slicer is quite thin, about 8" long, and would be my recommendation for a meat knife -- though the carbon steel version (1302) will have better edge retention if that's what you're looking for. If you want a two cleaver setup, I'm a big fan of the thin slicer + light chopper setup, as the chopper is thick enough to split chicken bones, making it versatile for any light butchery, and the slicer functions as an all purpose chefs knife with excellent geometry.

 

[JWK1]

I can never remember CCK model numbers but I have pretty much a full collection of them. Its sounds like you are looking for what they call a barbecue cleaver. Made for chopping large quantities of meat at one time. The 1301 might also be a good choice, its a real beast size wise. Much larger than the 1302 I favor general home use.

It's interesting that you have almost all of them but you use the 1302 for your (what sounds like) your most used home knife. I am assuming no huge amounts of veggies or protein at any one time. The kind of volume one would expect for a single meal.

My current method for cutting sausage meat is to de-bone the pork shoulder roast, cut the meat into one inch slabs, then cut each slab into quarter inch strips, turn 90 degrees and cut quarter inch rows again. Of course I don't end up with perfect quarter inch strips that are one inch long, but you get the idea. Also as you may guess, this is an extremely simplified outline of the actual process. I'm just trying to illustrate what the knife generally has to do.

I initially had the BBQ cleaver on my prospect list, but ended up eliminated it. I'm thinking that cleaver would excel at the mincing and chopping stage for certain types of stuffings (like those delicious dumplings) and sausages. The type of sausage I make involves slicing the meat only. It's nothing like what you would make for something like the traditional western breakfast sausage, such as the jimmy dean type of thing. Nothing that finely chopped or minced.

I am considering the 1301 for its thinness and length. I can also get something in the 11xx series in the same length as the 1302 and 1301, but reportedly is just a bit thicker (but still thin) and taller in height. A session for me involves hundreds of slices as described above. My goal is to find the blade that will do this with the least amount of effort and fatigue. This involves balancing three factors regarding the blade itself: length, thinness, and weight.

Three top choices as of right now:
1. 1301 - Possible truth: The longest and thinnest with plenty enough weight for the task. Any more weight would be overkill and just add more effort and fatigue.
2. 1101 - Possible truth: The longest and heaviest. That extra weight will be nothing on your arm compared to how much easier the cuts will be. The fact that the blade is a bit thicker won't even matter for this purpose.
3. 1102 - Possible truth: The perfect balance. You'll never miss that extra 10mm on the blade length, it's noticeably lighter than the 1101 but still has plenty of mass, and it's plenty thin enough. This is the way.

Any one of those three could be true, and I have no way of determining which one gets the prize. I'm paralyzed.

 

[esoo]

I can never remember CCK model numbers but I have pretty much a full collection of them. Its sounds like you are looking for what they call a barbecue cleaver. Made for chopping large quantities of meat at one time. The 1301 might also be a good choice, its a real beast size wise. Much larger than the 1302 I favor general home use.

The list (and sizes) are here:
http://www.chanchikee.com/Chinese Knives.html

 

[JWK1]

I have the CCK 1802 stainless slicer and 1904 light chopper. The slicer is quite thin, about 8" long, and would be my recommendation for a meat knife -- though the carbon steel version (1302) will have better edge retention if that's what you're looking for. If you want a two cleaver setup, I'm a big fan of the thin slicer + light chopper setup, as the chopper is thick enough to split chicken bones, making it versatile for any light butchery, and the slicer functions as an all purpose chefs knife with excellent geometry.

Thanks for your feedback regarding the two cleaver setup. As luck would have it, I've just been gifted some vintage type high carbon cleaver that is definitely in the lighter chopper area. It is not CCK, but it was made in Hong Kong. I can't read the stamped name, but it's not chan chi kee. It's 208mm long, 95mm high in the middle and weighs 439g. This could definitely handle poultry and fish bones. The blade is in pretty good shape and the profile has not been messed with at all from bad sharpening. It probably just wasn't used much. It will be fun to play with. I can try it to make some breakfast sausage for my wife. She loves that stuff. Making half a pound is nothing, especially with the right tool.

In any case, I've got my "short" two cleaver setup all covered.

 

[Noodle Soup]

The list (and sizes) are here:
http://www.chanchikee.com/Chinese Knives.html

The problem is CCK doesn't stamp their knives with any of those model numbers. A year or two down the road and I don't remember what model I was buying. Using a ruler and comparing measurements I would say my most used CCK is a 1901 I bought in their Hong Kong shop. I pretty much collect cleavers so there are others I probably use just as much.

 

[esoo]

The problem is CCK doesn't stamp their knives with any of those model numbers. A year or two down the road and I don't remember what model I was buying. Using a ruler and comparing measurements I would say my most used CCK is a 1901 I bought in their Hong Kong shop. I pretty much collect cleavers so there are others I probably use just as much.

I get it. Not much better when you walk into their shop here in Toronto

 

[SwampDonkey]

I quite like my Chopper King small slicer. 205 edge length if I recall correctly, has just a hint of curve rather than being dead flat, similar to Wat Pro nakiri. The V-Toku-1 core steel will treat you well; it came with a crappy factory edge but I put a more acute angle on it and the steel has held up very well, also vastly improved performance. Definitely a thin vegetable knife, slices meat surprisingly well.

For $75 it's a killer value.

 

[demirtasem]

I quite like my Chopper King small slicer. 205 edge length if I recall correctly, has just a hint of curve rather than being dead flat, similar to Wat Pro nakiri. The V-Toku-1 core steel will treat you well; it came with a crappy factory edge but I put a more acute angle on it and the steel has held up very well, also vastly improved performance. Definitely a thin vegetable knife, slices meat surprisingly well.

For $75 it's a killer value.

Can’t agree more.

 

[M1k3]

I quite like my Chopper King small slicer. 205 edge length if I recall correctly, has just a hint of curve rather than being dead flat, similar to Wat Pro nakiri. The V-Toku-1 core steel will treat you well; it came with a crappy factory edge but I put a more acute angle on it and the steel has held up very well, also vastly improved performance. Definitely a thin vegetable knife, slices meat surprisingly well.

For $75 it's a killer value.

Definitely punches above it's price point.

 

[JWK1]

I quite like my Chopper King small slicer. 205 edge length if I recall correctly, has just a hint of curve rather than being dead flat, similar to Wat Pro nakiri. The V-Toku-1 core steel will treat you well; it came with a crappy factory edge but I put a more acute angle on it and the steel has held up very well, also vastly improved performance. Definitely a thin vegetable knife, slices meat surprisingly well.

For $75 it's a killer value.

Can’t agree more.

Definitely punches above it's price point.

Even though it's smaller than my imagined "best size", this ticks a lot of boxes for me. I use King sharpening stones. Right now I have a 300, 800 and a 1200. How would these work with the V-toku1 steel? I bought them specifically for my Masahiro and other softer carbon knives, due to many recommendations over on the sharpening forum. Would these be effective for the harder steel, or would I be struggling and wishing for some other type of stone?

Thanks for the recommendation.

 

[SwampDonkey]

Even though it's smaller than my imagined "best size", this ticks a lot of boxes for me. I use King sharpening stones. Right now I have a 300, 800 and a 1200. How would these work with the V-toku1 steel? I bought them specifically for my Masahiro and other softer carbon knives, due to many recommendations over on the sharpening forum. Would these be effective for the harder steel, or would I be struggling and wishing for some other type of stone?

Thanks for the recommendation.

You'd be in great shape with those stones. The steel is similar to the Hitachi blue paper steel, basically just Takefu's copy of it, so it is easy to sharpen.

 

[Gshep91]

It's interesting that you have almost all of them but you use the 1302 for your (what sounds like) your most used home knife. I am assuming no huge amounts of veggies or protein at any one time. The kind of volume one would expect for a single meal.

My current method for cutting sausage meat is to de-bone the pork shoulder roast, cut the meat into one inch slabs, then cut each slab into quarter inch strips, turn 90 degrees and cut quarter inch rows again. Of course I don't end up with perfect quarter inch strips that are one inch long, but you get the idea. Also as you may guess, this is an extremely simplified outline of the actual process. I'm just trying to illustrate what the knife generally has to do.

I initially had the BBQ cleaver on my prospect list, but ended up eliminated it. I'm thinking that cleaver would excel at the mincing and chopping stage for certain types of stuffings (like those delicious dumplings) and sausages. The type of sausage I make involves slicing the meat only. It's nothing like what you would make for something like the traditional western breakfast sausage, such as the jimmy dean type of thing. Nothing that finely chopped or minced.

I am considering the 1301 for its thinness and length. I can also get something in the 11xx series in the same length as the 1302 and 1301, but reportedly is just a bit thicker (but still thin) and taller in height. A session for me involves hundreds of slices as described above. My goal is to find the blade that will do this with the least amount of effort and fatigue. This involves balancing three factors regarding the blade itself: length, thinness, and weight.

Three top choices as of right now:
1. 1301 - Possible truth: The longest and thinnest with plenty enough weight for the task. Any more weight would be overkill and just add more effort and fatigue.
2. 1101 - Possible truth: The longest and heaviest. That extra weight will be nothing on your arm compared to how much easier the cuts will be. The fact that the blade is a bit thicker won't even matter for this purpose.
3. 1102 - Possible truth: The perfect balance. You'll never miss that extra 10mm on the blade length, it's noticeably lighter than the 1101 but still has plenty of mass, and it's plenty thin enough. This is the way.

Any one of those three could be true, and I have no way of determining which one gets the prize. I'm paralyzed.

Buy all 3 and sell the 2 you choose not to keep on BST?
Up front cost is up there but you’d recoup quite a bit

 

[JWK1]

You'd be in great shape with those stones. The steel is similar to the Hitachi blue paper steel, basically just Takefu's copy of it, so it is easy to sharpen.

Thank you, that's good to know. I don't want to buy any new stones right now. I'm trying to reduce and simplify.

Buy all 3 and sell the 2 you choose not to keep on BST?
Up front cost is up there but you’d recoup quite a bit

Valid point, but at the present time I feel overwhelmed with the amount of "stuff" I really want to sell already. It would be embarrassing to try and list it all. I just don't want to add more to it.