Every style of knife I should try.

[Neofolis]

Being very new to Japanese knives, I'm thinking of the different knife styles that I should try. As a vegetarian, there are obviously going to be things, like a Honesuki, that I would never use and, in terms of being able to fulfill all my needs, the list only needs to be very short, but I'd like to try as many styles of knife as possible to see what I enjoy using and also to fill my knife block. Over time I'm more likely to end up with multiple knives of the same type that I enjoy using, rather than one of many types, but I'll need to try them to find what I enjoy most.

So the list of knives that I can see potential for a vegetarian to use are....

Gyuto
Kiritsuke
Santoku
Nakiri
Bunka
Sujihiki
Petty
Serrated/Bread

Clearly there is a lot of overlap in functionality. I already have a Nakiri on order and I expect a Gyuto will be next. Also I'll need to try some of the knives in different sizes, but are there any other styles of knife that I should add to the list of potentials?

 

[JimMaple98]

cleaver Definitely, I would choose between a bunka and santoku, don’t see a point in both (haha point, get it?)
no real reason for a Suji either, it’s made for slicing meat? or a Kiritsuke, a single bevel slicing knife? Are you wanting to venture into single bevels?

personally I would go;
Gyuto
Nakiri
Petty
Bunka
Cleaver (Chinese vegetable slicer)
Bread knife

 

[damiano]

Definitely Chinese veggie cleaver. Mine is 195x90. I prefer a cleaver over a gyuto (as a home cook).
Agree on choosing between santoku and bunka, plus I am not a fan of a nakiri as I already have a cleaver.
Bread knife yes. Petty: these are available in different sizes, I like my 165mm Mumetoshi which is like a mini gyuto.
Do you eat fish? If so, you could look at a deba. If you don’t prepare fish/meat then a sujihiki is not necessary.
Maybe you could also look into a Japanese ‘butcher’ knife like the Munetoshi - this would be great for tackling harder veggies and fruits.
Have you seen the video of the lady showing all the different J knives?

 

[Neofolis]

Are you wanting to venture into single bevels?

I'd like to try as many things as possible, as that seems the best way to find my likes and dislikes, although I'm a leftie, so single bevels will be that much more difficult to obtain. I suppose, as I would like to try single bevels, I could add a Usuba to the list.

 

[JimMaple98]

I'd like to try as many things as possible, as that seems the best way to find my likes and dislikes, although I'm a leftie, so single bevels will be that much more difficult to obtain. I suppose, as I would like to try single bevels, I could add a Usuba to the list.

Most people would say not to venture into single bevels until you are sure you need it, but I ain’t one to stop someone doing what they want. If you want to try single bevel then Usaba is the one that makes sense for you, but good luck finding a leftie one mate

 

[Neofolis]

Definitely Chinese veggie cleaver. Mine is 195x90. I prefer a cleaver over a gyuto (as a home cook).
Agree on choosing between santoku and bunka, plus I am not a fan of a nakiri as I already have a cleaver.
Bread knife yes. Petty: these are available in different sizes, I like my 165mm Mumetoshi which is like a mini gyuto.
Do you eat fish? If so, you could look at a deba. If you don’t prepare fish/meat then a sujihiki is not necessary.
Maybe you could also look into a Japanese ‘butcher’ knife like the Munetoshi - this would be great for tackling harder veggies and fruits.
Have you seen the video of the lady showing all the different J knives?

No, I don't eat fish. I went for the Nakiri first, because I assumed a cleaver was more for meats. I've not seen the video, just been trawling here and knife retailers as well as watching other YouTube videos, trying to learn as much as possible.

 

[Neofolis]

Most people would say not to venture into single bevels until you are sure you need it, but I ain’t one to stop someone doing what they want. If you want to try single bevel then Usaba is the one that makes sense for you, but good luck finding a leftie one mate

Yes, I know it will be difficult. It's not a priority anyway, probably years away, there's plenty I need to learn and experience before that.

 

[btbyrd]

What Jim said. I'd definitely add a Chinese cleaver to the list. The CCK 1303 is great for vegetable prep, as is the stainless version. Super thin. They're also on the inexpensive side. I can't see the need for a suji as a vegetarian. Likewise for a true kiritsuke, which is a specialty knife designed to cut fish and prepare vegetables in a very specific (and very Japanese) manner. You'd be better off with a k-tip gyuto that has a flat profile. I'd stay away from usubas too, unless you're really looking to do a bunch of Japanese preparations. They're awful general purpose vegetable knives for western cuisine. Awful. And being a lefty will make finding a decent one more difficult, and make it harder to eventually sell when you realize that it's not useful. Santokus and bunkas cover the same territory -- the main difference is whether there's a super pointy tip or a more rounded sheepsfoot tip. When buying either, look for a profile you think fits your cutting style. Both bunkas and santokus can be very flat or can have a lot of belly, depending on the maker.

It's good to try a lot of different knife styles to figure out your preferences. I thought I'd really like nakiris, but I discovered that I'd take Chinese cleaver or flat-profiled k-tip gyuto over a nakiri any day. Or a bunka. Or a santoku. I've never discovered what nakiris are especially good for, apart from being flat, but you can have similarly flat profiles and still have a usable tip. And I'd advise against a Japanese butcher knife. Hard vegetables don't need thick blades; these will wedge and get stuck. Very thin blades are much better, though it's important to cut straight down so you don't torque the blade and chip the edge.

 

[JimMaple98]

Cleaver is a kinda misleading term for a Chinese chef knife, they have thick ones for meat and bones, midrange ones for light butchery and hard work, then thin slicers, the latter of which we are referring to

 

[ian]

Maybe you could also look into a Japanese ‘butcher’ knife like the Munetoshi - this would be great for tackling harder veggies and fruits.

Skip to the end...

 

[damiano]

For some things, not carrots, I like using a butcher knife so as to save the edge on my thinner knives. I'm about to cut a pineapple: will use a butcher knife to cut off the top and bottom and then use a thin cleaver for the rest. Imho it's good to have at least 1 thicker knife, but yes I use mine more for meats and fish than veggies.

 

[ian]

Ah, cool, makes sense. I guess I’d just use a beater gyuto for anything like that. (Although I usually use a conservative enough edge bevel on my nice knives that I don’t need to use a beater for stuff like pineapple.) If you just want to save the edge, it’s only the thickness within 1 mm of the edge that matters, and the rest of the thickness of a butcher knife just gets in the way. A munetoshi is like an axe.

 

[Neofolis]

It sounds like I should have gone for the cleaver first, because the reasons people have suggested a cleaver are the reasons I went for a Nakiri. It's not a problem, I would still have wanted to try a Nakiri either way and I think I have a preference for smaller, lighter blades. I also think I generally favour flat blades, as I prefer chopping to rocking. The only time I usually use a rocking motion is when cutting small things very finely like herbs and garlic.

I don't do very much, if any, Japanese style prep other than maybe for stir fries. Even then, maybe not. My only priority when making stir fries is trying to ensure all of the ingredients are cut to a similar size, so that they cook in roughly the same time. Sorry, if I sound like a noob. I've been cooking for years, but I've mainly learned through experimentation.

 

[ian]

The only time I usually use a rocking motion is when cutting small things very finely like herbs and garlic.

FWIW, many of us here never rock and instead use push or pull cuts with our gyutos. Some curve can be useful even if you're not rocking. But yea, if you do straight up and down chop, a nakiri or cleaver is a good idea.

I don't do very much, if any, Japanese style prep other than maybe for stir fries. Even then, maybe not. My only priority when making stir fries is trying to ensure all of the ingredients are cut to a similar size, so that they cook in roughly the same time. Sorry, if I sound like a noob. I've been cooking for years, but I've mainly learned through experimentation.

Yea, the single bevels are mostly used together with specific cutting techniques. One extreme example is the thin sheets of cucumber you see people making at Japanese restaurants. Double bevels are fine, and in my mind preferable, for what you're describing.

 

[Neofolis]

FWIW, many of us here never rock and instead use push or pull cuts with our gyutos. Some curve can be useful even if you're not rocking. But yea, if you do straight up and down chop, a nakiri or cleaver is a good idea.



Yea, the single bevels are mostly used together with specific cutting techniques. One extreme example is the thin sheets of cucumber you see people making at Japanese restaurants. Double bevels are fine, and in my mind preferable, for what you're describing.

That's cool, it saves me having to worry about finding left hand biassed single bevel knives. I generally don't need to cut anything thinner than potato/vegetable chips, except occasionally for decorative purposes.

 

[damiano]

Ah, cool, makes sense. I guess I’d just use a beater gyuto for anything like that. (Although I usually use a conservative enough edge bevel on my nice knives that I don’t need to use a beater for stuff like pineapple.) If you just want to save the edge, it’s only the thickness within 1 mm of the edge that matters, and the rest of the thickness of a butcher knife just gets in the way. A munetoshi is like an axe.

Yeah, apologies, I should have been more clear! To some extent the butcher knife is a bit overkill, because indeed, for most of these tasks you could just any ol' beater, e.g. my Thai Kiwi cleaver. But I guess it's nice for someone collecting Japanese knives, to have something to cut through peanuts, pizza and so on.

 

[ian]

Oh, right! We forgot to advise the OP to get a damascus pizza cutter!

 

[damiano]

To the OP: have you seen the recent cleaver thread? See: Been a while since we had a Cleaver chat.

Two things. First, getting a new knife may also be an opportunity to learn new cutting techniques. Typically any knife will direct you to its optimal technique. I had some difficulty at first with some J knives but I quickly changed my technique.

Second, not all cleavers are completely flat. My Sugimoto SF 4030 does allow for some rocking, if needed.

You're not a noob by the way: cutting veggies to equal size is quite pro in my book. Look at Chef John using his CCK and you know what I mean.

Finally, you could ask Koki from JCK for left handed single bevels, he will have plenty of choice (though may come at a premium).

 

[McMan]

Top five:

Gyuto
Gyuto
Petty
Gyuto
Paring

I'm actually (partially) serious. This way you can develop your tastes--what properties you care about and which ones matter less. Sticking with a few good gyutos at first can also help you develop technique. From there, once you get settled, you can think about what you can't accomplish well with a given gyuto and why, and then go after knives that fill that void (a few nakiri, suji, bunka, etc.). This way, you won't be dealing with six different profiles from different types of knives all at the same time. I think going slowly also has the benefit of identifying your likes/dislikes, especially as they develop and change.
Usually I'm not this much of a pragmatist...

 

[spaceconvoy]

Similarly, might be better off trying different weights of the same profile instead of jumping around between different profiles. A thin slicing cleaver gets used very differently than a midweight #6 style, for example.

 

[Noodle Soup]

It sounds like I should have gone for the cleaver first, because the reasons people have suggested a cleaver are the reasons I went for a Nakiri. It's not a problem, I would still have wanted to try a Nakiri either way and I think I have a preference for smaller, lighter blades. I also think I generally favour flat blades, as I prefer chopping to rocking. The only time I usually use a rocking motion is when cutting small things very finely like herbs and garlic.

I don't do very much, if any, Japanese style prep other than maybe for stir fries. Even then, maybe not. My only priority when making stir fries is trying to ensure all of the ingredients are cut to a similar size, so that they cook in roughly the same time. Sorry, if I sound like a noob. I've been cooking for years, but I've mainly learned through experimentation.

I'm not a minimalist in my cutlery choice for sure. I like a medium size Chinese cleaver for large vegetable jobs and a nakiri for the fine work. I especially like nakiri for making curry paste and similar tasks.

 

[Neofolis]

I appreciate I have a lot to learn about my likes and dislikes and I will certainly have to try more than one of any type of knife given the huge number of variables involved from size, weight, balance, profile, taper, finish, metal, bladesmith and so on. I would certainly not write off a Gyuto, just because I didn't get on with the first one I tried, but I would have thought that having different types of knives would at least help me see the advantages/disadvantages on that shape in the way I use it, even though I maybe falsely drawn to a particular shape, because I get on better with that particular example of that knife type.

Either way, having an idea of the sort of knives that could potentially be useful to me is a good starting point. I'm sure it will be years before I have a good idea of what I like and even then I will still be wanting to try other things. It's fairly obvious why people end up either having lots of knives or having had lots of knives.

 

[Neofolis]

This talk of pizza cutters reminded me that I also use a rocking motion to cut pizza, but that's kind of a prerequisite using something like this.

Mezzaluna style cutters aren't very Japanese, but I'm way quicker with one of these than I can imagine being with anything else and I'm pretty fast with a pizza wheel. They have the other advantage that no matter how blunt they get, they can still cut pizza.

 

[Neofolis]

To the OP: have you seen the recent cleaver thread? See: Been a while since we had a Cleaver chat.

Two things. First, getting a new knife may also be an opportunity to learn new cutting techniques. Typically any knife will direct you to its optimal technique. I had some difficulty at first with some J knives but I quickly changed my technique.

Second, not all cleavers are completely flat. My Sugimoto SF 4030 does allow for some rocking, if needed.

You're not a noob by the way: cutting veggies to equal size is quite pro in my book. Look at Chef John using his CCK and you know what I mean.

Finally, you could ask Koki from JCK for left handed single bevels, he will have plenty of choice (though may come at a premium).

Will check the cleaver thread in a moment.

I suspect my technique will take a while to improve, partly because I'm in my 50's and partly because I'm not an everyday cook. My knives would all get used, but certainly less often than many people here.

I can't really imagine wanting to rock with a cleaver, but I'll give anything a go.

I said I try to cut veggies to similar size. There was no mention of how successful I was.

I think the single bevels can wait a while. There doesn't seem to be any immediate benefit for me to go that route.

 

[Qapla']

This talk of pizza cutters reminded me that I also use a rocking motion to cut pizza, but that's kind of a prerequisite using something like this.
Mezzaluna style cutters aren't very Japanese, but I'm way quicker with one of these than I can imagine being with anything else and I'm pretty fast with a pizza wheel. They have the other advantage that no matter how blunt they get, they can still cut pizza.

Pizza isn't very Japanese either, so that's certainly appropriate.

Most people would say not to venture into single bevels until you are sure you need it, but I ain’t one to stop someone doing what they want. If you want to try single bevel then Usaba is the one that makes sense for you, but good luck finding a leftie one mate

He can contact a UK-based dealer of j-knives and ask them about lefty models (they may not be listed on their sites). Single-bevel knives aren't very practical for non-Japanese cuisine, but they're scarcely some sort of obscure magic.

 

[LostHighway]

As a quasi vegetarian my vote would go for:
220 - 240 gyuto
180 gyuto
nakiri
paring knife, 80 or 90 mm
bread knife

I haven't gone down the Chinese cleaver road so I can't really speak to that but a small slicing cleaver like a CCK 1303 or 1302 seems like a reasonable idea.

If you have gyutos and a nakiri or bunka I can't see much utility in adding a santoku. Bunkas can be fun and I like them but again not really necessary if you have a nakiri and guytos. IMO a vegetarian doesn't really need a sujihiki or a true kiritsuke, but a k-tip for one of our gyutos isn't insane if you like the style. I don't think the case for a 150 - 180 petty is particularly strong if you have a 180 gyuto and I find the shorter 120 - 135 versions nearly useless. YMMV.

 

[Neofolis]

As a quasi vegetarian my vote would go for:
220 - 240 gyuto
180 gyuto
nakiri
paring knife, 80 or 90 mm
bread knife

I haven't gone down the Chinese cleaver road so I can't really speak to that but a small slicing cleaver like a CCK 1303 or 1302 seems like a reasonable idea.

If you have gyutos and a nakiri or bunka I can't see much utility in adding a santoku. Bunkas can be fun and I like them but again not really necessary if you have a nakiri and guytos. IMO a vegetarian doesn't really need a sujihiki or a true kiritsuke, but a k-tip for one of our gyutos isn't insane if you like the style. I don't think the case for a 150 - 180 petty is particularly strong if you have a 180 gyuto and I find the shorter 120 - 135 versions nearly useless. YMMV.

I was thinking a 210mm Gyuto would probably be my next purchase. I'm not entirely sure why I want to focus on smaller blades. When I think about what I use at the moment, I have 200mm and 300mm chef's knives and I almost always reach for the 300mm first, yet when I just hold both or even when I use them, I find the 200mm more comfortable. I think it's just the comfort of knowing I have more than I need. It's the same as when I always grab my 8m tape measure, rather than my 5m, even though I'm only going to measure something about 2m and the 5m tape is easier to use and hold. I think what I'm saying is that I want to have smaller blades, so that I don't automatically reach for the larger ones.

As far as the petty goes, I would probably be thinking of an 80mm to do the job of a paring knife. I don't generally use utility knives, so I doubt I would have much need for a larger petty.

I think most people would say that a home cook, particularly a vegetarian, can cover most of their bases with just a chef's knife, paring knife and a serrated knife, but I'm sure that if I had a wide array of knives they would all get used, just because I liked using them. That would probably mean there would be occasions where I would use a knife that wasn't necessarily my best option at the time, but I'd be using it, because I hadn't used that knife for a while and I like the knife. I'm sure from what I've been reading around here, I'm not the only person who would do that.

 

[Jovidah]

I mostly cut pizzas and flatbread with scissors. Works really well, as long as you have some that come apart real easy so that they're easy to clean.
I agree with the sentiment of developing tastes more and maybe trying a few types of gyutos before trying to get every profile under the sun.
Don't see a lot of sense in a suji or other long slicer for a vegetarian; I only use mine on proteins. Santoku and bunka are very similar. Always looks to me like a bunka is just a k-tip santoku for insecure men who want to try a santoku without buying a 'wife knife'.
But just buying 1 of the shorter lengths should probably be enough to figure out whether you even like short blades. Personally I end up missing length on pretty much any blade below 200mm, unless it's a petty and used for specific tasks - usually detail work or meat work.

 

[Neofolis]

My daughter uses scissors to cut pizza, I just find it pointlessly slow. I can cut a large pizza into ten slices, while she's still cutting one in half. Apparently a Santoku is the most popular knife for home chefs in Japan, but I guess that's mostly down to the different cuisine.

I'm struggling to think of situations where I use the tip of the blade, which is part of why I bought a Nakiri before a Gyuto. The only thing I can think of is when I use a knife to open a bag of something or a parcel. I probably won't be doing that with good knives.

 

[Jovidah]

Japanese houses and kitchens are - at least thats the stereotype - supposedly on the smaller side. Small kitchen, smaller counter-top space, thus smaller cutting boards and smaller knife. Using a knife that's too long for the cutting board just gets annoying.
Similarly a lot of home users that don't necessary excel in cutting technique often find a longer knife awkward. I think for that reason the santoku got more popular in the west as well.

Regarding the pizza / scissors thing.. I guess it depends on how good you are with scissors and how good of a pizza cutter you have.