Fast Quenching Oils

[Tim Rowland]

So I got to thinking the other day after having a discussion with a local maker about fast quenching oils that are used for steels like (1095/w1/w2/26c3) the standard being Parks 50 and wanted to get some weigh in from other makers on their preference of fast quenching engineered oils.

So I guess 3 parts:

1. Do you stick with Parks 50 because of its reliability and reputation?

2. Have you tried other fast quench engineered oils? If so any successes or failures regarding full hardening/ hamon definition/quench scale?

3. Any successes or failures in trying a 2 stage quench? few seconds water/into medium quenching oil.

Knowing that we have some great makers that read through and post on the forums regularly I was really curious as to everyone's thoughts/opinions.

 

[suntravel]

I use Quendilla AN22, works perfekt for supposed to be waterhardening steels on knifes, and for oil or air hardeneng steels gives you up to +3HRC.

No scale on the steele, hamon comes out not as wild as with water, only had one case of cracks so far, but maybe to course pergrind was the reason.

Never tried 2 step with water, but quenching only to come around the perilte nose, than plates to about 80° C and immediatliy tempering or deep freezing.

Regards

Uwe

 

[Tim Rowland]

I use Quendilla AN22, works perfekt for supposed to be waterhardening steels on knifes, and for oil or air hardeneng steels gives you up to +3HRC.

I have never seen that oil before.
I will definitely research it and see if its available here in the states.

Uwe

 

[BT11]

Ive been happy with Houghtons K as a fast quench. I also use Houghtons G as a medium speed oil.

One of my mates recently switched to a product called Aqua-Quench (also made by Houghtons I think) and has been super impressed with it so far. It can be mixed in different ratios (with water) to create different speed quench mediums

 

[HSC /// Knives]

So I got to thinking the other day after having a discussion with a local maker about fast quenching oils that are used for steels like (1095/w1/w2/26c3) the standard being Parks 50 and wanted to get some weigh in from other makers on their preference of fast quenching engineered oils.

So I guess 3 parts:

1. Do you stick with Parks 50 because of its reliability and reputation?

2. Have you tried other fast quench engineered oils? If so any successes or failures regarding full hardening/ hamon definition/quench scale?

3. Any successes or failures in trying a 2 stage quench? few seconds water/into medium quenching oil.

Knowing that we have some great makers that read through and post on the forums regularly I was really curious as to everyone's thoughts/opinions.

1) yes
2) yes, Mcmaster carr 11 second, works better for W1 as I recall, should be fine for thinner 1095 blades.
no failures as I recall, possibly may not reach the highest hardness numbers,... no experience with hamons )
3) never tried it

lmk if you need the tech sheet

 

[Jmcc]

I use rye oil it's a parks 50 equivalent from UK.im in Ireland
All I can get.if I could get parks 50 I would use it on reputation and reliability
I have no problems with rye oil it nails it every time
I did have some warps with a two stage quench but I didn't stay doing it to perfect the technique which is where I think I was going wrong,too long in water

 

[Matus]

No personal experience, unfortunately, but I was told by Achim Wirtz, that Durixol V35 should be even faster than Parks 50.

 

[Tim Rowland]

A few of these oils I have never heard of and will definitely be researching if I can get in the US or not.

I use rye oil it's a parks 50 equivalent from UK.im in Ireland

From what I can find online RYE OIL seems to be a company in the UK that makes many different oils/lubricants/fuels.
Is there a certain one from RYE OIL that you are referring to?

 

[suntravel]

here is the datasheet for Quendila AN22, its made by BP

http://www.orthwein-oel.de/PDFs/Quendila A22D und AN 22D.pdf

Example of hamon on waterhardening steel 1.2008 quenched in this oil

Datasheet of the steel

https://www.dew-stahl.com/fileadmin...kzeugstahl/Kaltarbeitsstahl/D_Cryodur2008.pdf

Regards

Uwe

 

[Tim Rowland]

here is the datasheet for Quendila AN22, its made by BP

http://www.orthwein-oel.de/PDFs/Quendila A22D und AN 22D.pdf

Datasheet of the steel

https://www.dew-stahl.com/fileadmin...kzeugstahl/Kaltarbeitsstahl/D_Cryodur2008.pdf

Regards

Uwe

Thank you for the data on both the oil and the steel.
Beautiful Sujihiki BTW.

I am getting my hands on some of the Brownell's Tough-Quench oil this weekend and am going to see how that compares to the hamons I have been getting with a 1 second water dip then into medium quenching oil. I am looking to gain a little more "whispyness" below is a quick example of the basic looking hamons that I have been getting with my W2 on a little kwaiken knife.

 

[suntravel]

Hi Tim,

looks very well, for a wilder hamon i would ad the clay in an wilder manner, but equal on both sides to avoid wraping.

Sometimes spending time an trys on etching and polishing, will also get cooler results.

I do serveal dips in Fe3CL and get finer on sanding/polishing after each dip.

Regards

Uwe

 

[Tim Rowland]

Thanks Uwe,
I will give the progressive grit polishing/etch a try.
I have been hand sanding up to 2000 and then etching and then another quick light sanding to remove some oxidation.
I will try starting my etch at 600 and work my way up the grits to see how that comes out. I appreciate the advice.

 

[Kippington]

Ive been happy with Houghtons K as a fast quench.

I use this stuff too and get pretty good hamons.

Honestly I think any/all of the above-mentioned quenchants will work. They're all cooling mediums that need practice to get used to. Hell, with enough trial and error you could probably get this done with canola oil.

 

[Tim Rowland]

Thanks Kippington:
Beautiful looking Hamon there.

How thick/thin is everyone mixing there refractory cement.
I have been using Rutlands and thinning slightly with water and claying everything at about 1/8" thick.
Should I clay up thinner to get more action?

 

[RDalman]

Yea, what Kip said, you don't get around trial (and a few errors)

 

[Butters]

I use Excelquench 603, a fast quench oil available in the UK. Gives a decent hamon with 1095, without the dreaded ping.

 

[Matus]

How thick/thin is everyone mixing there refractory cement.
I have been using Rutlands and thinning slightly with water and claying everything at about 1/8" thick.
Should I clay up thinner to get more action?

As was already mentioned - you have to test this with a HT procedure for give steel. I have made VERY few differentially hardened blades so far (and none of them is finished yet ...), but I have used 1.2442 and 125SC. Each of the two steels need different thickness of the layer of the stuff you put on to get predictable results. Look at how Japanese makers meticulously apply the mud - making sure it has exactly the thickness and distribution they want.

If you put too much in a shallow hardening steel (e.g. the 125SC), than you will get hamon 'dropping' from where you wanted it to be. If you put too little on a deeper hardening steel (like the 1.2442), than you will get hamon that sits higher and lacks the structure you may wanted to obtain - or even no hammon at all. But again - the details (how much is too much and how little is too little) will depend on the details of the HT.

 

[suntravel]

Thats how i apply the clay.

Most important esp. on 330mm long thin blades like this ist to make it exakt the same way on both sides, so they will come out usable straight after quenching.

Regards

Uwe

 

[Tim Rowland]

Well I got better results with the Parks 50 in combination of hand sanding up through the grits with etches in between grits as suggested instead of sanding up to 2000 and then etching. I made the exact blade shape, geometry, and pre-heat treat thickness to minimize as many variables. On the next few I will try different clay thicknesses and try to add a more interesting pattern .......I guess just try a ton of stuff, one at a time until I figure out what I like. I appreciate everyone's feedback and advice on the thread.