Globals - where to go with these? (newbie sharpener)

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OP you are right. Globals are overpriced shite. Throw them away immediately, they don't even worth to be donated.

On an oposite side, if you like using them thats okay too. Enjoy the ride.
 
OP here.....the plot has certainly thickened since the first few replies! thanks for all the feedback, interesting reading for a newb, although I'm getting further away from the solution, was about to order a couple of shaptons after the first replies, now I haven't a clue what decision to make!! 😂😂
 
Kawa said:
I've read the stories about Global around here, but after all those years I was pleasantly surprised on how it sharpened. I didn't encounter the typical burr formation or removal problems I read about. I actually quite liked it, compared to those beaters I normally get from people around me
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FWIW, the SG 120 and 220 are so different from the rest of the line that they barely seem to have any relationship to the rest.
 
fourmations said:
OP here.....the plot has certainly thickened since the first few replies! thanks for all the feedback, interesting reading for a newb, although I'm getting further away from the solution, was about to order a couple of shaptons after the first replies, now I haven't a clue what decision to make!! 😂😂
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Just order the Shapton's (or Venev 👀). Sure, Global's aren't "cool" around here. But they're still decent knives, that can withstand some "abuse".
 
Dive into it. Means are not a match to the experience.
 
Kawa said:
In what way? clogging?
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In...all ways. 320 and above are pure white, and very smooth for their grit, which they release reluctantly. I can see nothing that ties those stones to the 120 and 220, which are rough metal-hogging stones that dish and, yes, glaze quickly.
 
Rangen said:
In...all ways. 320 and above are pure white, and very smooth for their grit, which they release reluctantly. I can see nothing that ties those stones to the 120 and 220, which are rough metal-hogging stones that dish and, yes, glaze quickly.
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I've found the Shapton dressing stone very helpful. Have used it so far only with the SG220 and 320.
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Rangen said:
In...all ways. 320 and above are pure white, and very smooth for their grit, which they release reluctantly. I can see nothing that ties those stones to the 120 and 220, which are rough metal-hogging stones that dish and, yes, glaze quickly.
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I can understand that in comparison to the coarser 120-220 Glass the #320 and #500 are whiter and more reluctant to grit release.

I just wanted to point out that IME what’s part of the magic of SG500 is very controlled indeed yet quite abundant grit release. No soaking comparisons could be made there, but the SG500 greatest speeds and strengths (like clearing way coarser scratch pattern very well) always seemed to me to rely on a rather easy and steady grit release for a sng.

I could’t be sure if you would still be inclined to agree, or strongly disagree, with my experience of 320 and 500 for their denomination and grit. Nor anyone else for that matter. It is always after all a matter of perpective into specific used.
 
stringer said:
I used the shapton glass 500 as my sole coarse stone for more than a decade in a pro setting. That is how I used up three of them. I rehabbed and thinned and maintained dozens of globals during that time. Along with all manner of other knives from very cheap to top of the line. The SG500 is fast enough to do major repairs on any kind of knife except for super steels. You will dish it a bit and it will take marginally longer than if you went to a 320 stone. But if you are only maintaining a couple of knives at home. Who cares? It will also have shallower scratches that take less time to clean up. And moving a little slower makes it a little less likely you do something counterproductive like sharpening in a frown or exacerbating geometry issues. Globals don't benefit from a lot of thinning. A little behind the edge and slap a new apex on it. They can't support a nail flexing geometry.

Over the last few years I have experimented quite a bit with oil stones. Crystolon and India are great but to me they are a next step after OP figures out why water stones are better than whatever pull through gadget they have been using. SG500 is that stone in my mind. Great driver's Ed vehicle.


To @Rangen's point. I purchased my first fancy bonded/resin not sure diamond stone recently. (Naniwa 600). And I have used it to rehab several globals actually. Globals that I have previously worked on extensively with SG500 over the years. And these knives coincidentally get used a lot with a pull through sharpener and always need some thinning. At least with the Naniwa Diamond I didn't find it faster than the SG500. But it did leave a more usable edge. I wouldn't recommend coarser diamond stones than this to a beginner. Mostly because I haven't tried any and don't really know anything about them.
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I'm sorry that I may have not pointed out so clearly my hindrance vs. what one can do with a SG500 with some level of skills and understanding. It is one of the most versatile stone I've ever encountered of any grits.

In my mind though, not one that will specifically suit learning on. The rule of thumb being that the less you have experience, the less strokes needed tend to work towards better results when aiming to learn about primaries and make do with more or less well maintained but often used and "rod" knives, especially mellower SS ones.

Where I'd tend to agree with the opinion that I never found most of the Shapton stones so agreeable, and they wouldn't be my recommendation straightforward unless there was a clear path into better steels and/or ultimately juicing out the best of a stone/skills, where I'd tend to agree something like SG500 can do wonders, in such a way that some of them are surely still well out my grasp even.

In the Shapton Pro range however I've always found the SP320 to be more of a "soaker" in behavior: it doesn't dry nearly as fast as any other Shapton stone I ever tried, and always remains rather glazed and inefficient if only splashed. I would either water it copiously under a tap, and water it copiously in use, or at some point switched to soak at least 5 minutes beforehand - and still feed some steadier amount of water than any other SPs, but there I found it one of the most efficient stone to establish a primary on mellow SS: even there it doesn't dish like a soaker of its grit at all. Seen as a soaker indeed, the SP320 is no slouch a stone to its competition except much dire clogging tendency. I've found less forgiveness in range but as much speed and much more clarity with the SG320, which largely avoids the messiness and can still do a lot of work, but won't probably last as long nor be as versatile as the SP320, let alone something like SG500. I'm not sure I would have milked much of the SG320 or SG500 as a beginner though.

On another hand I always found the SP1K to be rather generally ordinally efficient to its grit and the steel and job at hand. Not like it's so obvious from the start, but getting to know it and other stones and various steels, its pretty much a linear stone with an extended range. In turn it always made me consider it faster than its grit in effectiveness. It was not the fastest dryer, nor absolutely sng like Shapton Glass tend to be from the whiter 320 onwards (still needing an initial deglazing there) but it fell well within ranks of SP 1500-2000, nothing like the soaker-ish SP320.

I learned on both and can say that in learning the SP320 was there for all instances of thinning bevel setting and sharpening less amenable steels, and that I learned to rely on it first and foremost of all stones until I knew much better.

Not minimizing what you did of a SG500 in pro kitchens for a decade. At which anywhere point I’d expect you knew better still than I ever did.

But multiple Globals with over a decade of « lesser » maintenance methods through « lesser » tools for someone wanting to learn freehand on them… I’m still quite reluctant to agree with SG500 as an obvious choice and I would not undertake a likely job from a customer on it still today. I can do it. But I wouldn’t go there where anything other than maintenance thinning-repair is required. And I’m not sure the once upon a time noob me would have consider it so crystal clear a path on SG500 that Globals only really need convexing BTE. It opens up rather an entire can of different worms to deal with - and really with their use I can’t be sure from my experience that that will be all these knives need.

Edit: I do fully agree with you that SP320 scratch pattern is not especially welcoming to deal with. To which extent I can't recommend better than a SG500 indeed towards certainty or the old Cerax 700 for camouflaging. There again for kitchen knives I fully recommend even basic camouflage of the sort over extended polishing of a primary bevel.... if cosmetics are even still of a consideration to any party concerned. Important distinction, since otherwise usually a quickly done SG500 polish to a relief bevel over a SG500 edge is pretty much my end with mellow SS I've otherwise gained control of over coarser stones. Likewise a vertical SG500 pattern and a typical bit of sandpading can do a lot towards a polishing and camouflaging of an hairline finish you'd like to preserve dirty after thinning. The SG500 to me is a must-get stone as well... only some later down the road where you can pay it the appropriated respect to such closely reciprocating use.
 
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hi all

OP here

thanks for all the advice although the amount of difference of opinions has me boggled

despite all the varying opinions on grits and diamonds over stones
i went and got a SP1000, i just wanted to get started with a decent stone and figured it would
be a good place to start and would be a stone that would come in handy in the future anyway
i had always intending to learn technique with my cheaper knives before going at the Globals
and figured that sticking to one respected decent middle of the road grit stone
would be the the way to go and not to be worrying about multiple stones as a beginner,
I fully respect the recommendations on diamonds but i am not in a hurry to build a collection of stones
as i learn

so anyway, the SP1000 landed yesterday and i was straight into it,
to say im not disappointed would be an understatement, its day and night to my cheapo blue/white double sided stone i had.
Using the 1k and a light finish on my ceramic rod with a quick light newspaper strop had my cheap tester santoku slicing newspaper in about ten minutes,
So, feeling confident and brave i took my 5" global veg knife and had a go at that, i was slicing newspaper with it in about ten mins also
with the exact same treatment as my cheap tester knife so i'm quite happy with that,
i'm sure its probably a poor edge in comparison to what you guys consider a good edge,
its a bit toothy perhaps but a very ample edge for cooking,
i went at a variety of veg with it and it flew through it, onions, carrots and some tough celeriac,

thanks for all the advice, im quite happy that i will get my globals to an excellent edge with a bit more practice
I know they don't get much love here but unlike many i really like the weight and balance and find the handle shape fine
I've been using them for 15yrs + so i'm very used to them, they are tough enough and a good workhorse in my eyes
i still want a nice CS gyuto though!!

many thanks
 
When using the rod — I hope it's a very fine one — please realise it creates a burr. As last motions you may, as lightly as possible, move the bevel on the rod sur place, i.e. without going forward, as if you were cutting into the rod, again, with the lightest possible weight. You will see some metal dust coming off. That's the burr. To be repeated on both bevels. You want them to be both equally smooth, and may check (AYOR!!) with your nail. The complete deburring is the major problem in sharpening Globals, and will determine how well the edge will hold.
 
Hi all ,
im back

@Benuser

Hi i'm not sure what you mean by the rod technique you are advising....can you try explain again?

i think i fluked the good edge using my ceramic steel after the SP1000, ill need to experiment a bit more
I bought a 1000k ceramic steel by mistake! I meant to get something a lot finer
I tried another one of my globals last night and actually got a better edge with the SP1000
and a newspaper strop than i did using the rod after the SP,

i'm also now thinking should i even get a finer rod or should i just get a finer shapton instead
i really dont have the money at the moment to buy lots of stuff and dont want to anyway
i dont think it would be good for my learning, what grit rod if i go that route? what grit stone?

as mentioned i'm getting a great edge for general cooking, cuts paper but a bit snaggy at times
did the freestanding tomato trick last night but its still a bit toothy and would like it a little smoother

is this just technique, as i said before i wanted to just get the SP1000 and learn on that
but ill add another stone or rod if its going to make the difference

many thanks
 
fourmations said:
Hi all ,
im back

@Benuser

Hi i'm not sure what you mean by the rod technique you are advising....can you try explain again?

i think i fluked the good edge using my ceramic steel after the SP1000, ill need to experiment a bit more
I bought a 1000k ceramic steel by mistake! I meant to get something a lot finer
I tried another one of my globals last night and actually got a better edge with the SP1000
and a newspaper strop than i did using the rod after the SP,

i'm also now thinking should i even get a finer rod or should i just get a finer shapton instead
i really dont have the money at the moment to buy lots of stuff and dont want to anyway
i dont think it would be good for my learning, what grit rod if i go that route? what grit stone?

as mentioned i'm getting a great edge for general cooking, cuts paper but a bit snaggy at times
did the freestanding tomato trick last night but its still a bit toothy and would like it a little smoother

is this just technique, as i said before i wanted to just get the SP1000 and learn on that
but ill add another stone or rod if its going to make the difference

many thanks
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A normal motion on a ceramic rod is edge leading: edge forward, abrading steel from one bevel, causing a burr on the other one.
By changing size and reducing pressure the burr will get smaller, but still remain, especially with Global's steel.
A therefore suggest the last motions not to be forward, nor edge trailing for the matter, but staying in place, going along the edge, when very lightly abrading the last remainings of the burr. It will have to be repeated a few times on both sides. Make sure they feel equally smooth.
 
Benuser said:
A normal motion on a ceramic rod is edge leading: edge forward, abrading steel from one bevel, causing a burr on the other one.
By changing size and reducing pressure the burr will get smaller, but still remain, especially with Global's steel.
A therefore suggest the last motions not to be forward, nor edge trailing for the matter, but staying in place, going along the edge, when very lightly abrading the last remainings of the burr. It will have to be repeated a few times on both sides. Make sure they feel equally smooth.
Click to expand...
Sorry, I'm a bit stoopid it seems, do you mean this? Running it at the normal angle but in a straight line rather than sliding down the length
 
I think Globals are pretty good for a boxed set of knives, I've been sharpening my mother's set for over 10 years and never had a problem putting a great shaving sharp edge on them. I find the steel behaves a lot like VG10 on the stones and burr removal is the key here.
You have chosen an excellent stone (SP1000) for these knives, or any knife for that matter (except high vanadium carbide super steels). The SP1000 is also ideal for learning and practicing your freehand skills but will take quite a long time on very blunt blades that require a reground apex. A cheap Sic or India 2 sided ( Fine/Course) stone will help to quickly get a workable edge, then only a quick few passes with light pressure on the SP1000 will give you a great usable edge for the kitchen. Jumping up to an SP2000 will put an amazing edge on them if you want a little more edge refinement and is also a great stone for quick touch ups if you don't let the edge deteriorate too much. Keep the ceremic rod for when/if you get small dents in the blade from hitting a bone or something hard. Just use edge trailing strokes to realign the edge.
 
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