Globals - where to go with these? (newbie sharpener)

[fourmations]

hi all

i've read up as much as i could find here about Globals and am really disappointed to learn about how sh*t the metal is and the awkward convex edge)
i thought i was buying a high end product! i got them probably about 20yrs ago now over a couple of years

I have 4 flat blade models (G4, GS3, GS4, GS5)
I have kept them usable with the Minosharp water wheel thing and a diamond steel, and little knowledge!

So i'm starting out learning how to use a stone after a few poor attempts over the years
I'm using two cheap knives to learn on and even on a crappy double sided 400/1000 blue & white stone ( you know the one!)
i'm getting results and feel im getting places that i hadn't before, they are rough and toothy by your standards but a million times sharper than previous attempts
and certainly way more than the globals! and very usable for the kitchen

ive no issue with the shape and weight etc of the globals, i've used them for that long and was very much thinking
that when ive learned more on my cheaper knives and picked up a decent stone or two that I'd be on to the globals
and be able to shave my dog in ten seconds if i wanted etc etc, but this doesnt look like the reality, far from it!

I was going to buy a SG1000 or a 500/1500 shapton pair or some thing like that but this issue with the globals has
put that idea on hold, they are the only "decent knives" i have apart from a Henckels santuko and an F Dick slicer

so where do i go with this scenario?, i had not intended on buying new knives and the Globals have a bit of sentimentality tbh
I'd still like to learn how to freehand sharpen and may buy a Tojiro or similar as an intro but what about the globals? just forget them?
i just want a decent edge for cooking, i dont need scary sharp and an edge you guys would scoff at would probably do me just fine
Do i buy specific stones for the globals? ive read diamond is good for them, also read to just form a new edge aggressively with sandpaper
or will the Shaptons get me a usable edge and them i have them for my other brand knives and a potential future J knife purchase

sorry for the epic post but it needed background and context!

many thanks

 

[stringer]

The globals are fine. They get nitpicked on here for various reasons but they are used in some of the finest restaurants in the world. They don't require anything special as far as sharpening stones is concerned. You should get rid of whatever blue and white sharpening stone you have and get some shaptons. I think a 500 and a 1500 or 2k would be a nice combo for the globals. If you decide to get some more high end cutlery then they will work great with that too. Down the road you could get something in the 3k-4k range and have a really nice sharpening kit. The steel in the globals is soft and coarse enough that going above 2k doesn't make much sense for them.

 

[fatboylim]

They are a perfect set of knives for the wife too! They don't rust anywhere near as fast

They are a softer steel so I would start in the 300-400 range for repairs, 800 for sharpening and finish on 2000 personally. But with all grit ranges they have some flexibility!

 

[fourmations]

thanks for the feedback guys, much appreciated!

a couple of questions off the back of that if you don't mind.....

so my Minosharp sharpener (made for Globals) claims to be set to the correct profile for the blades,
so would you just use that and refine on the stones and keep the stock convex or
grind a fully new flatter profile that gets rid of the weird convex arrangement ( i see a people suggest is the best treatment for globals)

and...(dare i ask) what duo of stones would you get as a beginner with a view to maintaining the globals but also to learn on for my other knives?
i've read a billion threads on this on here and reddit etc etc and ended up with a blinding headache!!
i note both of your suggestions in your replies, thanks for that but the decision is still to be made!

so shapton 500 & 1500 is a solid choice? Pro or glass or one pro, one glass?

many thanks

 

[NickMinton]

thanks for the feedback guys, much appreciated!

a couple of questions off the back of that if you don't mind.....

so my Minosharp sharpener (made for Globals) claims to be set to the correct profile for the blades,
so would you just use that and refine on the stones and keep the stock convex or
grind a fully new flatter profile that gets rid of the weird convex arrangement ( i see a people suggest is the best treatment for globals)

and...(dare i ask) what duo of stones would you get as a beginner with a view to maintaining the globals but also to learn on for my other knives?
i've read a billion threads on this on here and reddit etc etc and ended up with a blinding headache!!
i note both of your suggestions in your replies, thanks for that but the decision is still to be made!

so shapton 500 & 1500 is a solid choice? Pro or glass or one pro, one glass?

many thanks

Shapton 500 &1500 combo will cover almost everything you’ll need for learning

Once you get the hang of sharpening and thinning, you can get more knives and stones

Not mentioned yet but you’ll make a lot of mistakes when you first learn sharpening (we all did / still do). It’s a lot better to make mistakes on cheaper knives than a $1k knife handmade by someone

 

[fourmations]

cheers

so it seems there is no shapton Pro 500 , it jumps from 320 to 1000!
so should i get the 500 glass or the 320 pro?
i hear talk of poor feedback on the glass for a beginner?

also, the Pro and the kuramako are the same thing right?
i read there is a binder difference for different climates? neligable?

also best place to buy in europe is welcome, im in ireland
(ive seen Knives and Tools and bought there before but the SG500 is out of stock)

thanks

 

[ModRQC]

thanks for the feedback guys, much appreciated!

a couple of questions off the back of that if you don't mind.....

so my Minosharp sharpener (made for Globals) claims to be set to the correct profile for the blades,
so would you just use that and refine on the stones and keep the stock convex or
grind a fully new flatter profile that gets rid of the weird convex arrangement ( i see a people suggest is the best treatment for globals)

and...(dare i ask) what duo of stones would you get as a beginner with a view to maintaining the globals but also to learn on for my other knives?
i've read a billion threads on this on here and reddit etc etc and ended up with a blinding headache!!
i note both of your suggestions in your replies, thanks for that but the decision is still to be made!

so shapton 500 & 1500 is a solid choice? Pro or glass or one pro, one glass?

many thanks

Stones suggested are fine. You don’t have a choice in that arrangement to mix one glass and one pro. Glass don’t have the 1500 and Pro don’t have the 500.

You could consider Pro 320 + Pro 1K as a kit as well. I’m thinking the 320 will help with Globals and other soft SS. But really it doesn’t matter so much.

Ditch the minosharp. If you want to learn on stones most direct way is to establish your primaries yourself.

If you’ve been using the minosharp for years on the globals then you can free your mind of the idea of convex in sharpening: the minosharp got rid of any BTE long ago.

Also will have fatigued the steel at the apex, so once again, a coarser agressive stone like the Pro 320 wouldn’t go amiss.

 

[stringer]

cheers

so it seems there is no shapton Pro 500 , it jumps from 320 to 1000!
so should i get the 500 glass or the 320 pro?
i hear talk of poor feedback on the glass for a beginner?

also, the Pro and the kuramako are the same thing right?
i read there is a binder difference for different climates? neligable?

also best place to buy in europe is welcome, im in ireland
(ive seen Knives and Tools and bought there before but the SG500 is out of stock)

thanks

Shapton glass 500 is one of the best stones ever made in its class. The shapton pro 320 is slightly more coarse and probably lasts longer but is not much faster and messier. For what it's worth, I have a 320 I have almost never used it but I am on my third shapton glass 500. One of my most used stones.

 

[Rangen]

I'm going to dissent a bit here, because I've put in plenty of time, pre-enlightenment, with Globals on Shapton (Glass, in my case). It is an awful combination. Whatever the opposite of synergy is, this is it. Something about the steel wants to just skate over the stone. I've seen the same behavior on Shaptons only with Cobalt steels (Shun Cobalt, Boye Dendritic).

I love the Shapton stones, but not for this. Something with more gritty feedback would be a better fit. Naniwa Chosera/Pro (not SuperStone); Gesshin; Morihei. But by far the best fit of all would be diamond stones. Sharpening is fun for me, but sharpening Globals didn't get even tolerable for me until I put them on diamonds.

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

I've never sharpened Globals but if someone asked me to, I'm sure I'd pull out my Ultra Sharps.

https://www.bestsharpeningstones.com/category_details.php?category_id=62

 

[sanmateo]

how do the Ultra Sharp compare to something like DMT?

if one has the DMT type already, is there any benefit to looking at moving eventually to vitrified or resin type diamond?

I've been very happy with my shapton set for most knives, but just last week was frustrated with a D2 folder and had the revelation that diamonds are perfect for that steel. Similar experience with s45vn.

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

how do the Ultra Sharp compare to something like DMT?

if one has the DMT type already, is there any benefit to looking at moving eventually to vitrified or resin type diamond?

I've been very happy with my shapton set for most knives, but just last week was frustrated with a D2 folder and had the revelation that diamonds are perfect for that steel. Similar experience with s45vn.

I don't have any DMT but those are of course well regarded. That said, I have zero complaints with my Ultra Sharps. Well made and even.

There are indeed benefits to going to other types but the main one to me is abrasive longevity. I just don't use my diamonds enough right now to change away from plated stones.

I use them for a lot of my pocket knives and the occasional stainless kitchen knife but they don't see a ton of wear.

 

[Rangen]

how do the Ultra Sharp compare to something like DMT?

if one has the DMT type already, is there any benefit to looking at moving eventually to vitrified or resin type diamond?

I've been very happy with my shapton set for most knives, but just last week was frustrated with a D2 folder and had the revelation that diamonds are perfect for that steel. Similar experience with s45vn.

There are a lot of opinions out there about DMT. I refused to buy them for years, because of a really bad experience with a DMT diamond plate with holes in it, and blue plastic sticking up through the holes. Thus attuned to dislike DMT, I found plenty of others who shared my opinion. But there are also a large number of people who think it's great stuff. Very reluctantly, I recently picked up a DMT Dia-Flat, a big heavy thing used to flatten stones, and it is excellent.

So maybe they got better? Or maybe only their expensive stuff is good? They make so many different kinds of plates, that "how does it compare to DMT" isn't a sufficient question.

In general, the Ultra Sharps are just fine. No reason to get a different plate, unless of course you wore them out, which is easy to do without realizing it, since it happens so gradually.

Sharpening on diamond resin just plain feels a lot better than sharpening on a plate. The scratches are not so wildly deep. There is less resistance to your sharpening efforts.

 

[sanmateo]

I have a polka-dot DMT I got 20 years ago, but a few years ago got the diaFlat plates and I agree they're much better. People seem to have a problem with the diamonds coming off the extra fine, but I don't use mine enough to have seen this yet.

 

[Delat]

I'm going to dissent a bit here, because I've put in plenty of time, pre-enlightenment, with Globals on Shapton (Glass, in my case). It is an awful combination. Whatever the opposite of synergy is, this is it. Something about the steel wants to just skate over the stone. I've seen the same behavior on Shaptons only with Cobalt steels (Shun Cobalt, Boye Dendritic).

I love the Shapton stones, but not for this. Something with more gritty feedback would be a better fit. Naniwa Chosera/Pro (not SuperStone); Gesshin; Morihei. But by far the best fit of all would be diamond stones. Sharpening is fun for me, but sharpening Globals didn't get even tolerable for me until I put them on diamonds.

I tried sharpening a couple Globals at my parent’s place with my SG500 and it was pretty painful as you say. I got one done, looked at other half-dozen laid out, said F it, and just ran the rest through their pull-through electric sharpener. Mind you, these were all very thick BTE so I was almost more thinning than sharpening just trying to reach the edge at a reasonable angle.

If I was bound and determined to sharpen them all on stones, then I’d probably start with my SG220 or even give my Nanohone 100 DR a go. Or a coarse India stone actually might be just what the doctor ordered now that I think about it.

Anyway, I suggest setting your initial bevel with something coarse and fast, then go with the fancy 500 / 1k suggestions for your final edge.

 

[sanmateo]

Or a course India stone actually might be just what the doctor ordered now that I think about it.

of course! how could I forget all about our old friend
https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/the-greatest-sharpening-stone-in-the-world.57999/

 

[Heckel7302]

If they don’t need a new bevel set, my vote would be Shapton glass 500. It’s been the best for me for less than stellar stainless. Shapton Glass 2000 pairs well with it.

 

[ModRQC]

Shapton glass 500 is one of the best stones ever made in its class. The shapton pro 320 is slightly more coarse and probably lasts longer but is not much faster and messier. For what it's worth, I have a 320 I have almost never used it but I am on my third shapton glass 500. One of my most used stones.

Thing being that your experience in sharpening is vast, and you use the SG500 glass on knives you’ve already thinned or otherwise optimize. The kind of job I would guess you won’t do on a SG500.

When beginning sharpening, you need stones that give you a leeway about wear and that aren’t too expensive because you will probably wear them out quickly in the same spots until you learn better.

I also don’t agree much that the SP320 is barely faster than SG500. Not when it counts to have some speed.

I mean am I the only one that read the part where the OP says he’s had them Globals for more than a decade? Nothing I’d throw onto a SG500 personally until I could « correct » them on something quite coarser and cheaper.

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

of course! how could I forget all about our old friend
https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/the-greatest-sharpening-stone-in-the-world.57999/

I've been using Nortons for decades and have multiple Crystolons and Indias and I'd still skip right past them to diamonds. At least to start. If I found I Iiked how the steel responded then I might try them the next time. I'm just losing patience for stubborn steels.

 

[Delat]

I've been using Nortons for decades and have multiple Crystolons and Indias and I'd still skip right past them to diamonds. At least to start. If I found I Iiked how the steel responded then I might try them the next time. I'm just losing patience for stubborn steels.

Are diamonds good on sticky stainless though? I seem to recall reading they aren’t the best choice for that particular application.

 

[Rangen]

Are diamonds good on sticky stainless though? I seem to recall reading they aren’t the best choice for that particular application.

Diamond plates are not good on sticky stainless, which tends to grab and pull diamonds off the plate. Diamond resin stones are awesome on sticky stainless.

That's cheap crappy stainless, though. I have not found Global steel to be sticky like that. It has its own individual iniquitous character.

That said, I have not tried sharpening a Global on a diamond plate, only on stones. I'd expect it to work fine, but I don't really know that.

 

[stringer]

Thing being that your experience in sharpening is vast, and you use the SG500 glass on knives you’ve already thinned or otherwise optimize. The kind of job I would guess you won’t do on a SG500.

When beginning sharpening, you need stones that give you a leeway about wear and that aren’t too expensive because you will probably wear them out quickly in the same spots until you learn better.

I also don’t agree much that the SP320 is barely faster than SG500. Not when it counts to have some speed.

I mean am I the only one that read the part where the OP says he’s had them Globals for more than a decade? Nothing I’d throw onto a SG500 personally until I could « correct » them on something quite coarser and cheaper.

I used the shapton glass 500 as my sole coarse stone for more than a decade in a pro setting. That is how I used up three of them. I rehabbed and thinned and maintained dozens of globals during that time. Along with all manner of other knives from very cheap to top of the line. The SG500 is fast enough to do major repairs on any kind of knife except for super steels. You will dish it a bit and it will take marginally longer than if you went to a 320 stone. But if you are only maintaining a couple of knives at home. Who cares? It will also have shallower scratches that take less time to clean up. And moving a little slower makes it a little less likely you do something counterproductive like sharpening in a frown or exacerbating geometry issues. Globals don't benefit from a lot of thinning. A little behind the edge and slap a new apex on it. They can't support a nail flexing geometry.

Over the last few years I have experimented quite a bit with oil stones. Crystolon and India are great but to me they are a next step after OP figures out why water stones are better than whatever pull through gadget they have been using. SG500 is that stone in my mind. Great driver's Ed vehicle.


To @Rangen's point. I purchased my first fancy bonded/resin not sure diamond stone recently. (Naniwa 600). And I have used it to rehab several globals actually. Globals that I have previously worked on extensively with SG500 over the years. And these knives coincidentally get used a lot with a pull through sharpener and always need some thinning. At least with the Naniwa Diamond I didn't find it faster than the SG500. But it did leave a more usable edge. I wouldn't recommend coarser diamond stones than this to a beginner. Mostly because I haven't tried any and don't really know anything about them.

 

[M1k3]

I'll make 2 separate stone recommendations:

Shapton Glass 500 and Glass 2k.

Venev 240/400 diamond stone (it's resin bonded, not a plate).


Either option will cost about the same. The Venev's are really great for stainless (and simple carbon and high wear resistant steels also) in my opinion.

 

[MarcelNL]

I used to think my Global G2 was the knees bees, and my GF still has her Global Santoku and loves it (which is great since she'll never remember to rinse, wipe and dry her knife) yet every time I sharpen that one I hate the steel (I used to think folks saying so were snobs)...welcome me to the club of snobs.

I use the cheap diamond 400 grit flattening bick I have followed by the Shapton pro 1200k and do a few laps on the Hideriyama and that's it...the steel is rough, it's sticky, it finally does get a superficially toothy edge but that is about it.

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

Are diamonds good on sticky stainless though? I seem to recall reading they aren’t the best choice for that particular application.

I haven't noticed anything earth shattering with my plated diamond stones regardless of what I put on them. I think we dissect nuances that often times are probably minor details to others.

I can only say what I would do. Diamonds can handle a broad range, from High Speed steels to crap stainless so having one or two around is not a bad idea. As I said, I went with plated because I don't need to wear on them a lot and outside of forums, many, many thousands of people sharpen everything under the sun on plated diamond stones and have them for years.

But, if I did start to see premature wear from the Global steel then yes, I'd look for a different solution.

My issue with Norton's for the casual sharpener is that unless you want to use oil, at least occasionally, you're going to glaze them so now you have that chore to undertake. I often gift India stones, especially as a one-stone-solution for folks, but I also give them a small bottle honing oil and advise them to use it each time. Those folks will likely never own water stones, will probably never even cover the India and likely it will live in some kind of working/shop environment.

 

[Rangen]

I think we dissect nuances that often times are probably minor details to others.

Well, yeah. Why, are you here for some other reason?

 

[mengwong]

We are all here to investigate the individual idiosyncratic iniquities of industrial inox.

27

 

[Mr Kooby Shemayrew]

I once sharpened a set of 20+ year old globals for a professional chef. I thought they were really good workhorse knives - they may have have been from a different era and type of steel though. As all of his knives had many years on them and lots of being pulled through different sharpeners, they all needed major thinning. As I was doing about a dozen knives the only way to do this and keep your sanity is to use power. I used a belt sander, start with 60 grit and work up. Once they were thin and relatively sharp off the belts then I put them on stones. If BTE is thin and you have a decent bevel, the stones are the easy part.

Diamond plates are good especially for beginners because they don’t need any other accessories - splash and go, no need to flatten, works with all steels. Norton India and Crystalon are great too. Crystalon for heavier work. I still cannot recommend either of these over a powered sander if the goal is thinning more than a few knives. The sander pays dividends quickly in hours saved.

 

[Benuser]

If they don’t need a new bevel set, my vote would be Shapton glass 500. It’s been the best for me for less than stellar stainless. Shapton Glass 2000 pairs well with it.

I don't know about the SG2k, but the SP2k is much coarser that its grit indicates, and funny enough is very easy in deburring. Quite relevant with Globals. They need careful, light abrading, and don't benefit from high polishing. Or expect new burrs popping up after half an hour in an unexpected place.

 

[Kawa]

I gave my dad a Global chefsknife, long before I bought knives for myself or had done some proper research about knives.
When I sharpened them back in the days, I could get them really sharp. Tbh, I didnt know about burr back in the days, so I dont know the quality of my 'sharp'.

I've not touched in for years then and lately I took it home. It was really thick BTE since my dad uses a ceramic hone to maintain it. It had the classical hollow grind up in the back.
I gave it a good thinning and made it convex again. Started on a SG120, then SP220 up to a semi-mirror polish for the convex part. Then I made a primary bevel with Bester 1200. I can't remember there were problems with the SG120, while this stone cloggs really fast with some other knives.

The knive was sharp, I think BESS 120. Thats very close to where I get my own good stuff. Not saying BESS says everything, but lets say a Wusthoff doesnt come close to that, nor by actual feeling.

I've read the stories about Global around here, but after all those years I was pleasantly surprised on how it sharpened. I didn't encounter the typical burr formation or removal problems I read about. I actually quite liked it, compared to those beaters I normally get from people around me