Granton on a Santoku?..

[FloWolF]

Hi folks, and a HNY!

I'm a small-time/low volume knife maker from Ribble Valley, England, and recently I've been having a play with making some kitchen/chef knives, and for some insane reason decided to have a go at making 3 Japanese style ones, namely a Gyuto, and Santoku from Sheffcut both with hamon, and a Petty from Wolfram Special.

So here I am once again diving in the deep end and then asking how to swim.

I've done a ton of searches and reading but there's a few things I wouldn't mind being part of fresh conversations about, and whilst the steel is off for HT I figured now is the time!

So what's been boggling me today is the question of granton on the little Santoku, and not so much 'do they work?', as 'does it make a difference to the buyer?' or in other words, is it worth doing just to make the sales regardless?

I'm aware there's a difference between common granton patterns, and the true Granton edge with alternating scallops right to the edge, but I'd love to hear a little more.

Also, I suppose the crunch would really be, can I do this on my basic 2x72 using the radius's of my small wheel attachment, and is it worth the bother and the chance of ruining a good blade in progress with hamon/DH to boot, just to do it, or should I just stick with good, thin, convex whole blade geometry to do the job?

Thanks in advance, and I do apologise if anyone feels this has been done to death already and I should just go and search. However joking aside I've been reading about these knives for months on and off, I'm just seeking connection and further clarity

Cheers me dears!

Shaun/FloWolF

 

[Justinv]

I say definitely a hard no to grantons.

Since your question regards appealing to the buyer, a nice wood handle goes a long way. Also a nice polish and etch of the blade that shows the hamon.

 

[esoo]

Grantons are way to improve the performance of a flat grind. An overwhelming majority here will tell you that you are better off doing a convex grind as it will provide much better performance.

As for grinding grantons, I never done a blade, but if I were to do something like that it seems like it would be similar to the way Kippington does the chevrons on his hook grind. Somewhere on here I recall seeing a pic of the jig he uses to do that, so you may want to search for that for inspiration.

 

[Ericfg]

IMOs:
Knife nerds will say 'hard no'.
The buying public might say 'oo, neato!'
I'm not a maker but I'd assume the time it takes to Granton an edge will be way more than it's worth.
Might be an interesting project though.
Good luck!

 

[FloWolF]

I say definitely a hard no to grantons.

Since your question regards appealing to the buyer, a nice wood handle goes a long way. Also a nice polish and etch of the blade that shows the hamon.

Thanks for that.

As for the handles, I always go for something a bit tasty, and pretty much all my wood is collected locally or sent to me by friends from over here. Plan for these is for some particularly nice, and rather pale spalted silver birch burr/burl for the main section, and some rather dark silver birch that had been trapped in local river mud for Lord knows how many years before a flood washed it out and into my hands, for the front section, both stabilised and with a 3mm brass section/liner in between.

A big yup on the polish and etch at the end, first time I'll have engaged a hamon in a piece of mine, so you can bet I've been reading up to make sure what I have in my head about it is straight.

Scanning the other comments below, it's looking like I'm off the hook!

Cheers,

Shaun/FloWolF

 

[FloWolF]

Grantons are way to improve the performance of a flat grind. An overwhelming majority here will tell you that you are better off doing a convex grind as it will provide much better performance.

As for grinding grantons, I never done a blade, but if I were to do something like that it seems like it would be similar to the way Kippington does the chevrons on his hook grind. Somewhere on here I recall seeing a pic of the jig he uses to do that, so you may want to search for that for inspiration.

I was hoping this would be the case as I didn't fancy taking them on, but I've done a few nice convex grinds and can pull that off without trashing the blade.

I've seen some of Kippington's work since I joined here, read a fair bit about his hook grinds. Far too far ahead of my curve at the moment, I'm just trying to get the local market to notice my work, and see if they can find a place for any of it - I've made a couple of somewhat more western styled full tang kitchen knives but a lot of people are really into the Japanese style with wa handles, and the aesthetic appeals to me, kid of in an almost perverse way as my normal aesthetic is smooth, flowing, ergonomic contours with no flat surfaces anywhere.

Thanks again!

Shaun/FW

 

[FloWolF]

IMOs:
Knife nerds will say 'hard no'.
The buying public might say 'oo, neato!'
I'm not a maker but I'd assume the time it takes to Granton an edge will be way more than it's worth.
Might be an interesting project though.
Good luck!

Yeah, I think I'll pass then! If someone comes to me begging for them, I'll maybe have an experiment then, first with changing their mind but, you know!

 

[nipsy]

I've a wusthof nakiri with grantons, stuff still sticks!

 

[drrayeye]

Hi folks, and a HNY!

I'm a small-time/low volume knife maker from Ribble Valley, England, and recently I've been having a play with making some kitchen/chef knives, and for some insane reason decided to have a go at making 3 Japanese style ones, namely a Gyuto, and Santoku from Sheffcut both with hamon, and a Petty from Wolfram Special.

So here I am once again diving in the deep end and then asking how to swim.

I've done a ton of searches and reading but there's a few things I wouldn't mind being part of fresh conversations about, and whilst the steel is off for HT I figured now is the time!

So what's been boggling me today is the question of granton on the little Santoku, and not so much 'do they work?', as 'does it make a difference to the buyer?' or in other words, is it worth doing just to make the sales regardless?

I'm aware there's a difference between common granton patterns, and the true Granton edge with alternating scallops right to the edge, but I'd love to hear a little more.

Also, I suppose the crunch would really be, can I do this on my basic 2x72 using the radius's of my small wheel attachment, and is it worth the bother and the chance of ruining a good blade in progress with hamon/DH to boot, just to do it, or should I just stick with good, thin, convex whole blade geometry to do the job?

Thanks in advance, and I do apologise if anyone feels this has been done to death already and I should just go and search. However joking aside I've been reading about these knives for months on and off, I'm just seeking connection and further clarity

Cheers me dears!

Shaun/FloWolF

Shun makes a subtle variant on a granton they call "hollow ground." I have a Shun Kaji hollow ground that I have been enjoying for five years:

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fr...kw=shun+kaji+hololow+ground+santoku&_osacat=0
It's a very beautiful knife--and this type of granton might get you some business.

 

[SwampDonkey]

I'd stay away from them.

 

[Heckel7302]

Putting grantons on any knife is a good way to make me not interested in buying or recommending it. I’ve had knives with them. They don’t work and look silly.

 

[Benuser]

Putting grantons on any knife is a good way to make me not interested in buying or recommending it. I’ve had knives with them. They don’t work and look silly.

They don't work, reduce the life span considerably by hindering good thinning but above all look terrible.

 

[Jovidah]

In my experience the mass manufacturered style of grantons you see has a negligible effect, so personally I don't really see the point. My gut feeling is that many here share this feeling.

In fact... I have a hunch that the venn diagram of 'people willing to pay the price of a knife made by a small maker' and 'people who think grantons are a good thing' has a negligible overlap.

Some knife makers have experimented with other grinds that are supposed to help with food release; S-grinds, hollow grinds, doing a million grooves, etc. But it's rarely a 'unique selling point' on its own.

 

[bsfsu]

The Granton edge/scallops/mini sk8 bowls were initially invented because of stainless steel.

When stainless steel was invented (August 13th, 1913) everyone loved having shiny knives, for 5000 years or so not many people had shiny knives as they would tarnish/patina and so shiny knives were only shiny for a short time. Suddenly everyone had a shiny knife that stayed shiny for a long time! But then we had an increase in food sucation because of the shinyness of the knives.

The Granton knife company (est. 1601 Sheffield, England) came up with an "air pocket" solution and trade marked their Granton edge in 1928, once the trademark lapsed knife makers have done bad imitations of the Granton edge and for some reason people think a Santoku has to have them....(I blame Wusthof Santoku's from the 90's).

 

[drrayeye]

Shun offers both hollow ground and non hallow ground versions of Kaji--even a double row "sumo" version--and the hollow ground versions sell very well. Since they don't really promote performance advantages for hollow ground, I think it's primarily chosen for aesthetics.

I was able to get mine on a lowball EBAY bid--so I didn't choose to pay extra for hollow ground. On the other hand, I really like the knife.

 

[Justinv]

The shun kaji santoku is listed as a 177mm blade and a whopping 245g of handle heaviness. Its a santoku, not a deba! If thats your thing that is fine, but light and nimble is the point of santokus in my opinion.

I have a ‘heavy’ santoku with a 4mm spine, balanced at the pinch, and a solid feeling 180g.

 

[blokey]

The only one I saw working is Glestain, but is the look worth it tho
https://www.chuboknives.com/collections/gyutou/products/glestain-k-series-gyutou-240mm-9-4

 

[drrayeye]

The shun kaji santoku is listed as a 177mm blade and a whopping 245g of handle heaviness. Its a santoku, not a deba! If thats your thing that is fine, but light and nimble is the point of santokus in my opinion.

I have a ‘heavy’ santoku with a 4mm spine, balanced at the pinch, and a solid feeling 180g.

All relative. At the time, I bought it as my "Chef Knife"--to replace a heavier Wusthof Classic Ikon. For comparison testing on a project, I just purchased a HADO ginsan santoku at 128 gm.

 

[FloWolF]

Shun makes a subtle variant on a granton they call "hollow ground." I have a Shun Kaji hollow ground that I have been enjoying for five years:

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fr...kw=shun+kaji+hololow+ground+santoku&_osacat=0
It's a very beautiful knife--and this type of granton might get you some business.

Yeahhh, all things considered I think I'll be giving it a skip though!

Cheers!

Shaun/FW

 

[blokey]

Here's a test by Alan at KTH btw, it's in Cantonese but pretty simple to see the result

 

[cotedupy]

Hi folks, and a HNY!

I'm a small-time/low volume knife maker from Ribble Valley, England, and recently I've been having a play with making some kitchen/chef knives, and for some insane reason decided to have a go at making 3 Japanese style ones, namely a Gyuto, and Santoku from Sheffcut both with hamon, and a Petty from Wolfram Special.

So here I am once again diving in the deep end and then asking how to swim.

I've done a ton of searches and reading but there's a few things I wouldn't mind being part of fresh conversations about, and whilst the steel is off for HT I figured now is the time!

So what's been boggling me today is the question of granton on the little Santoku, and not so much 'do they work?', as 'does it make a difference to the buyer?' or in other words, is it worth doing just to make the sales regardless?

I'm aware there's a difference between common granton patterns, and the true Granton edge with alternating scallops right to the edge, but I'd love to hear a little more.

Also, I suppose the crunch would really be, can I do this on my basic 2x72 using the radius's of my small wheel attachment, and is it worth the bother and the chance of ruining a good blade in progress with hamon/DH to boot, just to do it, or should I just stick with good, thin, convex whole blade geometry to do the job?

Thanks in advance, and I do apologise if anyone feels this has been done to death already and I should just go and search. However joking aside I've been reading about these knives for months on and off, I'm just seeking connection and further clarity

Cheers me dears!

Shaun/FloWolF

Ah the Ribble Valley! My family are from a little village near Morecambe.

(Fwiw - I will also add my voice to the chorus of disapproval on the granton front. I don’t think they make much difference, and they look horrible).

 

[Nemo]

How would one maintain the thinness of a knife with grantons?

 

[tostadas]

I've sharpened many granton edge knives for family and friends. They tend to be on cheaper knives. In my testing, they don't have any significant improvement to food release over a non granton edge. And to me they look gimmicky and unappealing. I never needed to thin one, but since it doesn't improve performance anyways, I don't see a difference when compared to thinning a normal blade.