How sharp do you want the tip to be?

[Benuser]

There was a recent discussion here about the need or function of tips in general. Which reminds me that some sharpeners and makers somewhat round the tip — and the heel — probably with users' supposed safety in mind. I prefer the tip to be as sharp as possible, and verify by loupe whether spine and edge really meet. When sharpening for others, I normally repair the tip, warn them about it, and get it next time somewhat damaged back. Any thoughts?

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

From one end to the other, I want a sharp edge and slim geometry.

No-tip (nakiri) work:

If it's a knife that is meant to have a point, then I want it pointy.

 

[miggus]

Agreed - for knife nerds, you usually want the knife at peak performance. I use Gyutos as multipurpose knives, and then, the tip does many important things and should work well. Fun fact: pointy tips stress me out - not because I am afraid of cutting myself on them, but because I'm continually scared of breaking them off when pointing the knife at the sink for washing Luckily, it hasn't happened so far.

But it's true: if you sharpen for people who aren't used to really sharp knives, they can get hurt if you put a screaming edge on it. If find a sharp heel to be more problematic in that regard though, that tends to get overlooked easily.

 

[Rangen]

It's not something I've really thought about. I tend to look at my edges under magnification, and if I did not get the bevel uniform all the way to the tip, I call it a failure and fix it. So I guess I don't really encounter dull knife tips, rectangles aside.

Thinking about it now, I realize I use the tip a fair amount, especially for anything resembling butchery, in which I often lead with the tip, when finding the seam between bone and meat.

 

[Benuser]

Agreed - for knife nerds, you usually want the knife at peak performance. I use Gyutos as multipurpose knives, and then, the tip does many important things and should work well. Fun fact: pointy tips stress me out - not because I am afraid of cutting myself on them, but because I'm continually scared of breaking them off when pointing the knife at the sink for washing  Luckily, it hasn't happened so far.

But it's true: if you sharpen for people who aren't used to really sharp knives, they can get hurt if you put a screaming edge on it. If find a sharp heel to be more problematic in that regard though, that tends to get overlooked easily.

In fact I want both tip and heel to be sharp: quite often I'm using the heel to spare the fragile tip.
But with the heel it all isn't that dramatic: with a very slight, barely noticeable rounding by increasing the perpendicular angle between choil and edge you still have a very performant one, without being so dangerous. That's my solution when sharpening for others. The same idea may apply as well to the tip, I must admit, but look horrible.

 

[Barmoley]

I want the tip pointy and sharp, but not paper thin where it easily bends and breaks. Heel can be pointy and sharp as long as it doesn’t point back to the handle, that I don’t get and it is just asking for trouble.

 

[Benuser]

I want the tip pointy and sharp, but not paper thin where it easily bends and breaks. Heel can be pointy and sharp as long as it doesn’t point back to the handle, that I don’t get and it is just asking for trouble.

Is the case with the Masahiro VC, where the lowest point of the edge is not at the heel, but a bit forward. To still have a straight angle at the heel, the choil is slightly inclined.

 

[ModRQC]

Sharpening - and thinning - for me usually implies that the tip gets thinner/more acute than the rest. Of course I know how I use them and it hasn't caused me problems but perhaps the first couple knives I thinned that way. For customers I refrain to do this however - regular sharpening, nothing my kind of thin behind the edge, usually use a relief bevel.

I like something that tends to be like that...

To become something more like that:

Heels though my perspective is different. I've rounded a few of them. For one thing I have long hands and it's just my style to nick myself with certain configurations of heel and lenght of the neck. For another it stupidly catches with kitchen clothes too easily. And then I don't use much of any pointy heel.

I think it's very user dependent. Like, some things are very important "intrinsically" : good edge, fitting geometry, no too thick knives. But from there, how one will consider these matters discussed here I don't think changes much to the outcome of what someone else can do of excellent use with different parameters in mind.

 

[Barmoley]

Is the case with the Masahiro VC, where the lowest point of the edge is not at the heel, but a bit forward. To still have a straight angle at the heel, the choil is slightly inclined.

I prefer something like this. Still useful if needed, but safer at the same time.

90° is fine too, but the above is slightly better.

 

[ModRQC]

I prefer something like this. Still useful if needed, but safer at the same time.

View attachment 216902

90% is fine too, but the above is slightly better.

This totally makes sense indeed.

 

[Keith Sinclair]

Depends on knife. I teach lower spine height thinning little behind the edge all same angle heel to tip. Then raise spine a little put on micro bevel again same bevel heel to tip.

This enables the knife to maintain even blade road after many sharpenings. esp. true with distal taper blades where there is much less steel in the tip. Experience in hotel kitchens high heels & bird beak tips.

My 1910 Herder that got because liked yours. Keep the tip thin & sharp on that blade
Also pocket carry Spyderco have thinned the tip. I would not recommend others to thin tips they can break easier. Also people who throw around knives shouldn't buy K tip knives as these get broken tips by the average user.

 

[Keith Sinclair]

Herder 1910 tip. Even use false bevel on spine. Two small knives Herder been on magblock since October 2021. The Carter longest continuous blade on block with my petty made in Tosa region of Japan almost 10 years got both around same time. Only carbons she uses are the small knives. They are thin behind the edge & keep them very sharp. Have her trained average user would destroy these knives

 

[Keith Sinclair]

A few more thin tips all folders. After thinning out put micro bevel on all of them to give some stability

Ken Onion Kershaw pointy tip.
Spyderco Delica zpd189
Spyderco ladybug on car keys
Two dollar old tiny carbon steel pocket knife
Swap meet on spare car key

 

[Troopah_Knives]

This ties in well to a question I have had. How should the thickness BTE at the tip compare to the rest of the blade (Thinner, thicker same)?

 

[stringer]

This ties in well to a question I have had. How should the thickness BTE at the tip compare to the rest of the blade (Thinner, thicker same)?

Thinner. No doubt about it. Close to zero grind so that it can whip through stuff. Not too low that it gets caught in the cutting board when you are moving fast. Heel should be quite a bit thicker. So that you can use it for more board pounding and tougher ingredients without fear of damage.