Hybrid chicken/turkey/fish deba

[Kta]

Hello all, I've been using carbon steel (AS and B#1, iron clad) for a few years and a friend recently turned me onto the honesuki shape. It's so much fun to brake a chicken down with, but i went cheap to see if it's a shape i liked (tojiro color honesuki 150mm, "single bevel" but looks pretty flat-backed to me).

I'm in a deep dive and am thinking of getting a new knife (deba, loving single beveled) but don't want it to only work for one task. While i can comfortably break a chicken down with a 200mm wusthof chef knife, the honesuki is truly a pleasure. And worked well on a 14" or so mackerel.

I'm leaning a blue steel, but more importantly, I'm wondering what the collective's thoughts are on a 180mm deba for chicken, turkey, tilapia/moderate grouper through small salmon. In particular, I'm leaning a kiritsuki deba (less interested in looks, mostly in the functional point that's important for around bones).

Any and all advice/experience is welcomed! I'm looking for the correct knife for my uses and not to rush in to buy without information. Trying to learn the caveats i should be aware of before investing... I'm even open to buying a "beater" that needs some love to try the shape to help better define my budget.

Thank you for your time and any help!

 

[Jovidah]

Why bother trying to find a compromise that 'does everything' when you already have a honesuki?

 

[Kta]

Why bother trying to find a compromise that 'does everything' when you already have a honesuki?

Limited space on the knife rack?

I am looking to cycle out most of my stainless knives for carbon, and i don't think I'd use a normal deba that much. I like the shape of a honesuki, especially the tip for boning work, but wouldn't mind a touch of a belly (mine is very flat). I love a single bevel and also think 180mm would be a better multi use size.

So i think that puts me at a true single bevel 180mm honesuki (or i guess garasuki?). I'm not seeing many options for the single bevel honesuki (with the concave backside and all), so when i saw the k-tip deba, it seemed like the exact knife i would design for my uses.

 

[aporigine]

Maybe a mioroshi deba?

Or for a lot of money, this knife (kengata deba) which keeps much of a honesuki’s form factor. Itsuo Doi, one of my favorite blacksmiths.

 

[Kta]

Maybe a mioroshi deba?

View attachment 343557

Or for a lot of money, this knife (kengata deba) which keeps much of a honesuki’s form factor. Itsuo Doi, one of my favorite blacksmiths.

View attachment 343558

Wow, the kengata deba is the exact shape i had in mind. Naturally there would be a special deba exactly what i want, and equally naturally it would be pricy

 

[kujaku]

The Kengata deba looks cool, but sharpening it requires a high level of skill. It is very challenging to keep the shinogi near the tip straight.

 

[aporigine]

Wow, the kengata deba is the exact shape i had in mind. Naturally there would be a special deba exactly what i want, and equally naturally it would be pricy

There are some interesting other options. Hocho has this white 2 kengata deba 150mm for ?$216.

https://www.hocho-knife.com/brands/...MI6ZLy1eeIiAMVdM3CBB1qYgspEAQYBSABEgJ36PD_BwE

They also have a single-bevel garasuki (honesuki’s big brother) in the same line. (currently out of stock; presented to see if such a knife hits the spot)

https://www.hocho-knife.com/brands/...rasuki-boning-180mm-with-japanese-yew-handle/

A geometry more like a traditional kiritsuke but distinguished by the tip treatment.

https://www.hocho-knife.com/brands/...MI6ZLy1eeIiAMVdM3CBB1qYgspEAQYAyABEgIOQvD_BwE

Just for fun, the Sakai Takayuki premium line includes the Genbu (named for a divine tortoise) which replaces the point of the kengata with a tantoesque tip.

https://www.hocho-knife.com/brands/...MI6ZLy1eeIiAMVdM3CBB1qYgspEAQYAyABEgIOQvD_BwE

 

[Kta]

There are some interesting other options. Hocho has this white 2 kengata deba 150mm for ?$216.

https://www.hocho-knife.com/brands/...MI6ZLy1eeIiAMVdM3CBB1qYgspEAQYBSABEgJ36PD_BwE

They also have a single-bevel garasuki (honesuki’s big brother) in the same line. (currently out of stock; presented to see if such a knife hits the spot)

https://www.hocho-knife.com/brands/...rasuki-boning-180mm-with-japanese-yew-handle/

A geometry more like a traditional kiritsuke but distinguished by the tip treatment.

https://www.hocho-knife.com/brands/...MI6ZLy1eeIiAMVdM3CBB1qYgspEAQYAyABEgIOQvD_BwE

Just for fun, the Sakai Takayuki premium line includes the Genbu (named for a divine tortoise) which replaces the point of the kengata with a tantoesque tip.

https://www.hocho-knife.com/brands/...MI6ZLy1eeIiAMVdM3CBB1qYgspEAQYAyABEgIOQvD_BwE

I think the guytos don't have the spine I'd like, but the garasuki is interesting. I hadn't seen many with the strong single bevel, which was the main drive for looking for a more pointed yet strong tipped deba.

I really appreciate the links! I had started looking there, the prices are reasonable. If these knives are tricky to sharpen, maybe testing a cheaper used one to get a feel for them would not be a bad idea.

 

[aporigine]

I think the guytos don't have the spine I'd like, but the garasuki is interesting. I hadn't seen many with the strong single bevel, which was the main drive for looking for a more pointed yet strong tipped deba.

I really appreciate the links! I had started looking there, the prices are reasonable. If these knives are tricky to sharpen, maybe testing a cheaper used one to get a feel for them would not be a bad idea.

I would not be daunted by the sharpening, which will be an occasional thing if you don’t do Dumb Sh*t with it.

For learning single bevels, first thing I did was buy a $15 monostainless yanagiba off the Bay. When I got a white 2 “not Fisher-Price” yanagiba, a bit of watching Youtube vids of pros sharpening their single bevels helped keep me from figuratively running off the road. Now I have a yanagi, a takohiki and two sakimaru, and I believe my sharpening is competent. (The Y. Ikeda 360mm white honyaki came to me dull as a butterknife. I spent weeks on the stones reworking the blade road til I had an edge on it that revealed the knife’s immense potential. I still have some work to do to even out the kissaki whose transition to the kireha has a kink in it — but working the extreme end of a long blade like that is something I’m saving for those days when I’m one with the stones!)
A bit of a windy digression, but I encourage you to get in there. It is pure fun to put a specialist blade through its paces.

 

[btbyrd]

Debas mostly suck for breaking down chickens. Big western debas are fun if you have to go through bone, but they’re unwieldy for normal non-bone poultry butchery. It sounds to me like you might not need either a honesuki or a deba. And certainly not a weirdo knife that straddles the line.

 

[M1k3]

180mm yo-deba perhaps?

 

[refcast]

Oo boy there are lotsa kinds of deba. Thinner, thicker, longer, shorter, machi no machi, special shapes for aji, salmon, bonito, tuna, etc. There is also sabaki and other butchery and boning knives, double bevel deba.

The kiritsuke tip deba is a new new concept. I don't ever see old ones. The honesuki too is a newer knife than the deba, i only see old honesuki in monosteel.

There are deba that have been worn down to where they are pointy triangles. Maybe that could work as a compromise shape. Deba are thicker than honesuki, garasuki are about deba thickness and more heft for chicken bone mashing and breaking. You could also have a kiritsuke tip ground in too, more selection than trying to find kiritsuke tip deba.

Thickness to an extent helps with rigidity, reducing flex. When boning, there's lateral force on the knife that can make the knife flex and make the cut feel imprecise. Kiritsuke tips too, well, honesuki have the tip edge at an angle with regard to the spine, and kiritsuke have the tip mostly parallel to the spine.

You can certainly use a deba for poultry but it won't be as good as a honesuki in terms of nimbleness, precision, and tip work. There is no one knife that does poultry really well AND fish really well. I've owned like 3 honesuki and maybe 40 deba? Something like that. I have to list my deba eventually ... Some will be on bst... Eventually ...

 

[Kta]

Debas mostly suck for breaking down chickens. Big western debas are fun if you have to go through bone, but they’re unwieldy for normal non-bone poultry butchery. It sounds to me like you might not need either a honesuki or a deba. And certainly not a weirdo knife that straddles the line.

I mean, if we're honest, i can do just about every task with a 15 year old 20cm wusthof. I've butchered fish, chicken, and deer with mine. Ideal? No. Today i filleted a sea bream with my honesuki. A mackerel was fine but this was not pleasant (but functional). So maybe one of each is better than trying to find a multi-tasker

 

[blokey]

180mm Masahiro Garasuki, they makes great professional knives
https://jp-knives.com/products/mh_r...b19etXULMAt4IOUw8xajaSfq2KJs9_qpU70Ggg56ddjT_