If I can only have one Toyama

[DrD23]

If I was only allowed to purchase one... What would the toyamaphiles recommend. Stainless clad vs Damascus vs KU ??

 

[daveb]

You are asking about suji?

 

[DrD23]

apologies, no, I am interested in a Gyuto

 

[daveb]

I was making funny.

I prefer the Toyama with Kasumi iron clad - Migaki. The stainless (Toyama and Wat) I found to be good but not great. Prefer the Wat with Kurouchi iron finish. Not sure the dammy is worth the 2 - 3x multiplier, and if I was going that route I would go Wat.

YMMV.

You may find this of interest. The Different Blade Finishes for Japanese Knives

 

[DrD23]

Thanks! I thought I read he's not making the iron clad anymore. And I love the look of the Wat KU, despite the recent price increases I messaged them direct to see what they would ask for one in 240.

 

[myguidingmoonlight]

Probably the Toyama iron clad 240 migaki. I love my 210 iron clad but it's too short

 

[Nemo]

If you are only allowed to have one Toyama...

You could always get the other knives you want in Watanabe.

They seem very similar to me.

 

[myguidingmoonlight]

If you are only allowed to have one Toyama...

You could always get the other knives you want in Watanabe.

They seem very similar to me.

I'd like to own a KU Watanabe one day, I really like the look of that dark and even KU cladding on those

 

[Nemo]

I'd like to own a KU Watanabe one day, I really like the look of that dark and even KU cladding on those

My only Ku Watanabe is a cheap petty. The Ku on that one is VERY smooth. Almost like it's been painted on. I'm not sure if the Ku on the gyutos is the same or not.

 

[nickw_]

I would get a Honyaki. I’ve asked Watanabe, but he’s not making them at this time.

If not a honyaki, then stainless clad.

 

[DrD23]

Aesthetics wise big fan of the wat KU, I’ll keep an eye out for a restock.

 

[pgugger]

The kasumi iron clad gyuto seems most highly revered here, but I have never tried one. My stainless clad and Damascus are both awesome. The Damascus is not stainless and it’s a bit heavier, like the old kasumi iron clad, so I wonder if they are more generally similar in grind. In other words, if you want a knife equivalent to the classic Toyama iron clad, is the current Damascus the way to get it?

If the differences between Watanabe KU nakiri and Toyama stainless nakiri are generalizable to KU vs stainless for Toyama/Watanabe knives, then they are pretty different and I’d personally go for stainless in this case.

 

[Cliff]

My only Ku Watanabe is a cheap petty. The Ku on that one is VERY smooth. Almost like it's been painted on. I'm not sure if the Ku on the gyutos is the same or not.

I have a 270 gyuto, and the KU is a kind of lacquer that's very even and fairly fragile.

 

[RockyBasel]

Iron clad Watanabe and iron clad Toyama are no longer being made. This is according to Shinichi himself and Maksim at JNS - seller of Toyama’s

I just got a 270 mm Iron clad Watanabe and have been using it quite a bit - the knife is a beast for sure and I love it. Get it if you can

I think there is a difference - between the iron clad Watanabe and the Damascus Toyama - Toyama seems to be a little thinner

If price were no object - go for the Damascus - it is stunning to look at, and an amazing all-round performer. It is a fabulous knife. Joy to hold in the hand

Otherwise, stainless. It’s a no brainer

I think the KU Watanabe could also be a great option. I have never tried it, but I have the KU Watanabe Nakiri and it is a spectacular performer

You can save a lot of money if you order Toyama directly from a Japanese website - that’s how I got one of my Toyama Damascus knives - significantly cheaper

Hope that helps

 

[timebard]

Stainless clad is very nice but didn't blow me away but the (Wat, but same deal) migaki ironclad is just stellar. That or the dammy which looks to be similar in terms of weight and grind would be my move, if you can get your hands on one. KU versions vary quite a bit but are quite a bit heavier generally and appear to have a sturdier grind. If I'm going for a big honking warhorse to beat on I'd prefer something in 52100 for extra toughness (e.g. Shihan) but that's just me...

 

[DrD23]

The shi.han is definitely on my short list, parents recently visited Santa Fe and I asked them to stop by but they didn't get time. I have been eyeing the Damascus Toyama on JNS, and started this thread to see people thoughts on the different lines.

 

[Choppin]

In my experience, the Wat KUs have more variation between them (in weight, profile and grind), compared to the iron-clad and SS-clad categories (which I found very consistent).

I've seen some KUs with lots of belly, others with the same profile as current Wat/Toyama gyutos. Weight can be close to iron-clads (240g for a 240mm gyuto) or more like Kaeru Wakui (320g). Shoulders (widest part of the bevel) are usually higher than migakis in general, but there's some variation in thickness that goes with the weight variation as well.

In general they are the most beastly versions and fantastic knives.

 

[brimmergj]

think there is a difference - between the iron clad Watanabe and the Damascus Toyama - Toyama seems to be a little thinner

I'm looking forward to see this first-hand. I've got an iron clad wat arriving tomorrow.

If price were no object - go for the Damascus - it is stunning to look at, and an amazing all-round performer. It is a fabulous knife. Joy to hold in the hand

I know I really enjoy my dammy; definitely threw my expectations out. I thought it would wedge a bit, being more work horsey, but nope. I've had a few more beefy blades added that were very wedgy, but the damascus is like a perfect middle ground that isn't super thin, but isn't wicked thick. Awesome knife

 

[Mute-on]

Get the Dama 210 Nakiri on JNS. I have the iron clad and it’s a total beast. Hurry up before I buy it myself….

 

[DrD23]

Get the Dama 210 Nakiri on JNS. I have the iron clad and it’s a total beast. Hurry up before I buy it myself….

Haha interested in gyuto. They do have the Damascus Ktip gyuto and the stainless gyuto

 

[Choppin]

Get the Dama 210 Nakiri on JNS. I have the iron clad and it’s a total beast. Hurry up before I buy it myself….

Please buy it and then sell me your iron clad. I have the same but SS-clad, total beast indeed.

I don't even like damascus but this is just too good

PS: just saw it sold

 

[Ochazuke]

If I was only allowed to purchase one... What would the toyamaphiles recommend. Stainless clad vs Damascus vs KU ??

Mukimono ftw! ymmv

 

[mozg31337]

I would get a Honyaki. I’ve asked Watanabe, but he’s not making them at this time.

If not a honyaki, then stainless clad.

He has one for sale now, but it's a 300mm beast! I have one of his Honyakis in 255mm and it's awesome!

 

[RockyBasel]

Get the Dama 210 Nakiri on JNS. I have the iron clad and it’s a total beast. Hurry up before I buy it myself….

I tried - but too late - gone! It took a day to sell out. I have the stainless clad, but I “need” the Damascus Nakiri

 

[RockyBasel]

He has one for sale now, but it's a 300mm beast! I have one of his Honyakis in 255mm and it's awesome!

Do you have a Watanabe Honyaki or Toyama Honyaki?

 

[mozg31337]

Do you have a Watanabe Honyaki or Toyama Honyaki?

Well, many people call these knives Watoyama or Toyanabe ))) They are very similar/same knives from what I gather. Maksim told me that Watanabe doesn't make knives, not from the Professional / Special series anyways and he said that they are all made by Toyama.

I have had an email discussion with Shin regarding the Toyama knives and he was a little vague and didn't offer a straight answer. This could be down to lost in translation or simply because Shin didn't want to share this information. But he did say that he makes knives and he has an agreement with Toyama.

To answer your question, the Honyaki that I have was ordered from Shin and all the custom specs that I've discussed were done directly with Shin. I have even asked him to send a few pictures from making my knife, which he has done. The kanji on the knife are from Watanabe as far as I can tell. Having said this, they slightly differ from Watanabe's standard kanji, but my assumption is that it's because of the Honiaki knife. Having said this, my knife looks pretty much identical to the Toyama's honiakis, down to how hamon is done. So, it could have been done by Toyama and Shin could have done the grind / polish.

If anyone could provide a more accurate information it would be great to know.

In any case, the knife is such a great performer and feels just right in the hand. I have used it many many times for home home cooking and the only thing I did to it so far is stropped after every other cook or so. It hasn't been on stones yet. Despite this, there are still parts of the knife that pass the hanging hair test, which is just unbelievable imho! I have a good feeling that this knife will go down with me to the grave if my kids do not carry on my knife passion )))

 

[RockyBasel]

Wow! Amazing! So great to read this. I was lucky to have got a Toyama Honyaki - it is indeed a beast

Maksim told me the same thing and when you look at a Watanabe, it kinda looks like a Toyama

But I believe what toyama makes for Maksim has a slightly different profile than what Toyama makes for Maxim

Either way, we both got great knives - honyaki’s no liner being made by toyanabe/watanoyama

Toyama

 

[NotAddictedYet]

You can save a lot of money if you order Toyama directly from a Japanese website - that’s how I got one of my Toyama Damascus knives - significantly cheaper

Which website is this?

 

[mozg31337]

Wow! Amazing! So great to read this. I was lucky to have got a Toyama Honyaki - it is indeed a beast

Maksim told me the same thing and when you look at a Watanabe, it kinda looks like a Toyama

But I believe what toyama makes for Maksim has a slightly different profile than what Toyama makes for Maxim

Either way, we both got great knives - honyaki’s no liner being made by toyanabe/watanoyama

Toyama

Amazing! Can you share pictures of your Toyama?

 

[mozg31337]

Here is a recent one next to a 1kg ribeye on the bone. I love the patina on this Wat Honyaki. So pretty imho