JNat Beginners Guide to Buying: Stories of Success, Pitfalls, and Fails

[jacko9]

@PalmRoyale - do you have a shipping tracking number to prove that they received your stone? I would think that any respectable business would respond to proof of receiving that stone from you. Good luck and hope that you get this matter resolved to your satisfaction.

 

[PalmRoyale]

I have an update, received it just now on facebook messenger. A La Dressante bout 10 was sent to me today. There has been no decent response to any of my e-mails but apparently they did read them. 4 weeks of almost total radio silence and out of the blue they sent a stone to me.

 

[tgfencer]

Update on YourTogiya's seller profiles has been made to the list. It seems he has new ebay accounts in operation, one of which was likely stolen to mimic a well-known seller on Yahoo Auctions. (Yourtogiya=kossy_123, while the unrelated auctions seller is kossy1123).

I was discussing this exact possibility with Vinster when I stumbled upon this reddit thread, which mirrored our suspicions.

https://www.reddit.com/r/sharpening/comments/9f6bf7/ebay_scam_fake_hatahosi_and_nakayama_whetstone/

 

[PalmRoyale]

A bit more info on 330mate. I was told that the stones he sells in his Kyoto store are actually quite good since he can't afford to make an enemy out of the locals. If you're a foreign buyer, he will heck you over without giving it a second thought.

 

[catalystman80]

Cool thread.

I've been on the naturals train for only about three months now, but have spent more money on sharpening tools in the past three months than I had during the previous 8 years of free hand sharpening LOL.

I was lucky to have a great member from this forum reach out to me, answer bunch of my newbie questions, allow me to buy one of his stones, and also loan me a few of his stones to learn on!. Also many here replied to my very first post here about JNATs. So thank you!

I've so far obtained 6 JNATS, and I've recently acquired a few Belgian Coticules and an Escher (I started out mainly focusing on stones for knife sharpening, but also expanded the search for straight razor honing). I do want to eventually add a JNAT or two in the long run, but they will be quite pricey (and I don't necessarily need them functionally), so I'm "saving" for them in the future years It's been a great ride (and an expensive one, rivaling the days I was obsessed with Leicas LOL) so far. I just love sitting down with a stone whenever I have an hour or two, and just working various edges off of it. The uniqueness of each stone from the smell, texture, hardness, feedback, fineness, etc are all very intoxicating. Just on the stones I have now, I know I will have many years of learning and enjoyment. I don’t necessarily think they are better or worse than synthetics, but different in very wonderful ways. Part of my main driver was to get the natural Kasumi finish, so I’ve definitely benefited from the recent acquisitions, but I also love the variation in the type of edges I get. It’s like developing a relationship with each stone.

During the past three months, here are the related vendors (so not all for JNAT purchases, but they sell natural stones) that I had great experiences with:
- Maksim from JNS (of course everyone knows him)
- So Yamashita from Japan-Tool (wealth of knowledge about JNATs)
- Jonathan from JKI - haven't bought a JNAT from Jon, but I've bought knives and interacted with him in the past, a stand up guy for sure.
- Jarrod from The Superior Shave - got my Coticule from him, very knowledgeable about Coti's and a funny guy a in a quirky way Has some interesting/informative videos the ytube.
- Aframestokyo - was a little suspicious when a question I sent over IG was never answered (perhaps he prefers e-mails....not sure), but recently bought a 80k Kanayama strop from the webstore, and it was shipped right away.

Couple of not so great experiences (or tips):
- metalmasterjp on ebay. Though it wasn't for a natural stone (wanted to get some new Atomas). I bought some, and no shipment for over a month. Sent multiple notes and no answer, so got a refund through ebay. From what I read in the past, he seems to have a good reputation, but must not be checking (or unable to) his e-mail account these days.
- I also tried to buy a stone off the Watanabe website using their “Add to cart” page. It also says on that page please wait 5 days for the reply, and don’t send emails. I’ve been waiting over a month now. Someone on this forum advised I contact by email. But I ended up buying a similar stone from someone else recently, so I didn’t bother. It seems like he has a great reputation, so for others, I would recommend sending an email instead.

 

[jacko9]

I just purchased a Nakiri from Watanabe and placed it in the cart and didn't hear anything right away. Then I re-read the product page and noted that he asked how you intended to pay so I sent him an email indicating that I would pay with PayPal and received a total quote including shipping rates almost immediately. I guess I should have read the product page more carefully.

 

[skiajl6297]

Some JNat observations by a non-expert, so take this with a grain of salt.

Seal your natural stones, practice with them by sharpening real knives that will be used to actually cut real food, and repeat! I've always had good luck with clear nail polish.

WRITE DOWN YOUR EXPERIENCES! Document what works, and what doesn't work FOR YOU in sharpening, and then again in the finish. What you like about a stone, and what you do NOT like about a stone. Does the finish look like butt, but the edge holds forever? Does the finish look epic kasumi perfection, and then completely fail when in use? These are hugely important considerations that can only be gleaned by time and use of your actual knives, and your actual stones. No website or human will tell you with absolute certainty how a specific stone will work with the knife in your hands. Sure you can estimate grit, but that is a small part of the experience.

Research, reading, practice are your friends. Ask to borrow a stone or two from a trusted member. And don't be like me and practice sharpening only on a "practice knife". Learn to sharpen your best knives. Embrace scratches and scuffs - not a single polisher or sharpener who actually uses their tools has a perfectly polished tool after using it, and certainly not when learning to sharpen! In so doing, you will learn how to make a knife look like new on your own.

Also understand your goals. Are you into JNats for aesthetics? Or are you into pure performance? Or both? Do you have time to exclusively use JNats, or are you rushing to work with no free time to spare? I can tell you that if I was a culinary pro, I would go synthetic all day, every day! Why? Pure and simple efficiency.

And as echoed elsewhere in this post - jnats arent magic. Forgive the crappy analogy, but to me synthetic sharpening is like grabbing takeout McDonalds, whereas a nice JNat is like a multi course meal at a Michelin starred restaurant. Both restaurants are generally effective at filling your belly. Both types of stones will get a knife screaming sharp. But sometimes you want fast and casual to get the job done, and sometimes you want to scratch that artistic itch of seeing just how pretty/delicious you can make something by diving deep. Both approaches have a value, and not at one anothers' expense.

For your info, I am rocking the following setup (pun intended)

• JKI 800, 400 synths - bevel set, reset
• JKI 1k, 6k diamond combo synths - final finish from lower grits when needed, routinely used for quick 5min touch ups. Can stop here comfortably for an awesome edge.
• Red Aoto from JNS - often the first step after the above synths (up to 1K - on knives I want to go the JNat route with rather than finish at 6k diamond)
• Aiwaatani from JNS - used often for polishing after the red aoto - slightly finer finish, slicker mud for certain, polishes out scratches great.
• Okudo Suita from KKF member (bought used) - incredible finisher after any prior finish - 1k diamond, 6k diamond, aoto, or aiwaatani. Classic Okudo Suita.
• Various unnamed nagura/fingerstones (various sources) - this is the secret sauce. Naguras allow you to polish and play with finishes without buying a $2000 rock. I have a number of them, all purchased from JNS or from members here/elsewhere. All stones work differently, finger stones are no exception. But a small flake of Uchigomori is a hell of a lot cheaper than a brick.

Glad to answer any questions if anyone has them. Good luck - JNats are awesome!

 

[Krakorak]

Cool thread.

I've been on the naturals train for only about three months now, but have spent more money on sharpening tools in the past three months than I had during the previous 8 years of free hand sharpening LOL.

I was lucky to have a great member from this forum reach out to me, answer bunch of my newbie questions, allow me to buy one of his stones, and also loan me a few of his stones to learn on!. Also many here replied to my very first post here about JNATs. So thank you!

I've so far obtained 6 JNATS, and I've recently acquired a few Belgian Coticules and an Escher (I started out mainly focusing on stones for knife sharpening, but also expanded the search for straight razor honing). I do want to eventually add a JNAT or two in the long run, but they will be quite pricey (and I don't necessarily need them functionally), so I'm "saving" for them in the future years It's been a great ride (and an expensive one, rivaling the days I was obsessed with Leicas LOL) so far. I just love sitting down with a stone whenever I have an hour or two, and just working various edges off of it. The uniqueness of each stone from the smell, texture, hardness, feedback, fineness, etc are all very intoxicating. Just on the stones I have now, I know I will have many years of learning and enjoyment. I don’t necessarily think they are better or worse than synthetics, but different in very wonderful ways. Part of my main driver was to get the natural Kasumi finish, so I’ve definitely benefited from the recent acquisitions, but I also love the variation in the type of edges I get. It’s like developing a relationship with each stone.

During the past three months, here are the related vendors (so not all for JNAT purchases, but they sell natural stones) that I had great experiences with:
- Maksim from JNS (of course everyone knows him)
- So Yamashita from Japan-Tool (wealth of knowledge about JNATs)
- Jonathan from JKI - haven't bought a JNAT from Jon, but I've bought knives and interacted with him in the past, a stand up guy for sure.
- Jarrod from The Superior Shave - got my Coticule from him, very knowledgeable about Coti's and a funny guy a in a quirky way Has some interesting/informative videos the ytube.
- Aframestokyo - was a little suspicious when a question I sent over IG was never answered (perhaps he prefers e-mails....not sure), but recently bought a 80k Kanayama strop from the webstore, and it was shipped right away.

Couple of not so great experiences (or tips):
- metalmasterjp on ebay. Though it wasn't for a natural stone (wanted to get some new Atomas). I bought some, and no shipment for over a month. Sent multiple notes and no answer, so got a refund through ebay. From what I read in the past, he seems to have a good reputation, but must not be checking (or unable to) his e-mail account these days.
- I also tried to buy a stone off the Watanabe website using their “Add to cart” page. It also says on that page please wait 5 days for the reply, and don’t send emails. I’ve been waiting over a month now. Someone on this forum advised I contact by email. But I ended up buying a similar stone from someone else recently, so I didn’t bother. It seems like he has a great reputation, so for others, I would recommend sending an email instead.

As for Watanabe - he generally replies very, very quickly on emails, almost ever the same day and mostly its possible to change with him even several emails per day, have never had the slightest negative experience with him as regards communication...

 

[valgard]

As for Watanabe - he generally replies very, very quickly on emails, almost ever the same day and mostly its possible to change with him even several emails per day, have never had the slightest negative experience with him as regards communication...

This seems to be changing a bit lately. My last two emails he took several days to answer but eventually got back to me.

 

[Xenif]

Thank You for all those who have contributed so far to this thread, heres a link to recent link useful for jnat
https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/index.php?threads/38706/

 

[toddnmd]

This seems to be changing a bit lately. My last two emails he took several days to answer but eventually got back to me.

Last month or so he had a message on website that he had a lot of work currently, and might take up to five days to respond.
Earlier this week, I ordered a stone and his replies were pretty prompt, which is what I’ve typically experienced with him.

 

[childermass]

Just to add something new (usually I buy from Watanabe, Aframes or here):
I bought a few stones from ebay seller 'barber_san' recently. All stones were pretty nice, plus he answers all questions very quickly.
Most of the stuff he carries is razor related, so his stones tend to be on the harder side, but all of the three I bought are suitable for knives as well.

 

[PalmRoyale]

I was bidding on an Okudo suita this guy listed a few days ago. Unbeknownst to me a shipwright I know was also bidding on it and he won the auction. Talk about coincidence. He told me to test the stone when he has it and that's what I'll do. I hope for him it's a good one.

The shipwright who was bidding on an Okudo habutae suita picked it up this morning so I went over to him to give it a go as well. He hates the stone, he thinks it's too hard and smooth, even when I made a slurry on it with my Atoma 400 (it's the first jnat he bought). I on the other hand absolutely love this Okudo so I told him I'll buy it from for the amount he won it. It's a very smooth and soft feeling stone and quite fast with a diamond slurry. It finishes in the 10.000 range and puts a wicked edge on my chisels. Absolutely wonderful stone so I think he got lucky with ymmtnofm.

 

[andur]

I'd just like to add my comment about 330mate.
I've bought a dozen stones and knives from him since 2012 (including fully custom knives that took some months to complete and stones selected for specific purposes), never had a bad deal. I would recommend him in a heartbeat, especially for cheaper stones (I haven't bought expensive ones form him). He doesn't speak a word of english so bear that in mind! Maybe a lot of troubles people seem to have are due to language? This is Carter making a documentary of him:

 

[PalmRoyale]

I was told 100mate is umbrella stone company and that 330mate, ymmtnofm and the others are all members of the 100mate group. Don't know if it's true. As for the Okudo from ymmtnofm I have now, well, it's one of the best tool stones I've ever used and I've tested quite a lot. It's quite hard so it can't do without a diamond slurry but because it's so hard it's super easy to keep the bevel and back flat. And the edge is just so good. The one thing that makes it even better for me is that's I didn't have to pay a dime in shipping or VAT, that was all for the shipwright who I bought it from. I know some people have bought duds so I'm still very hesitant to recommend them to someone else.

 

[banjo1071]

Kossy from Yahoon has usually very good stuff. Also maruyo4476 carries crazy, unsual stuff....

 

[PalmRoyale]

The guy I bought the Okudo habutae suita from has second thoughts, he told me he wants it back. I asked him several times if he's sure he really wants to sell it to me and he said yes every time. Tough luck for him because I'm keeping it. It's too good of a stone to let it go again.

 

[Panamapeet]

The guy I bought the Okudo habutae suita from has second thoughts, he told me he wants it back. I asked him several times if he's sure he really wants to sell it to me and he said yes every time. Tough luck for him because I'm keeping it. It's too good of a stone to let it go again.

Thank you for this helpful reply

 

[tgfencer]

I was told 100mate is umbrella stone company and that 330mate, ymmtnofm and the others are all members of the 100mate group. Don't know if it's true. As for the Okudo from ymmtnofm I have now, well, it's one of the best tool stones I've ever used and I've tested quite a lot. It's quite hard so it can't do without a diamond slurry but because it's so hard it's super easy to keep the bevel and back flat. And the edge is just so good. The one thing that makes it even better for me is that's I didn't have to pay a dime in shipping or VAT, that was all for the shipwright who I bought it from. I know some people have bought duds so I'm still very hesitant to recommend them to someone else.

Thanks for the update, ancedotal information can be useful. I'm truly happy its worked out for you.

There seems to be little doubt that at least some of 330mate and Co's stones are good, but there is also no doubt that some are bad. That speaks of a lack of dependability, at the very least, which is enough in and of itself in my opinion to put him under the questionable vendors heading in the list of my earlier post. I cannot speak to the Carter video that was posted, as its the first time I've seen it.

Just like I wouldn't suggest someone buy a knife from a smith who sometimes sells poorly heat-treated, forged, or profiled knives, I would not suggest someone buy whetstones from a vendor who sells poor quality stones, even if some others might be good.

 

[Chef Doom]

Don't waste you're money on natural coarse stones.

 

[PalmRoyale]

There seems to be little doubt that at least some of 330mate and Co's stones are good, but there is also no doubt that some are bad. That speaks of a lack of dependability, at the very least, which is enough in and of itself in my opinion to put him under the questionable vendors heading in the list of my earlier post.

The one I have is outstanding but other stones might be completely useless. There's no way of knowing so I won't recommend them to someone else.

 

[tgfencer]

The one I have is outstanding but other stones might be completely useless. There's no way of knowing so I won't recommend them to someone else.

Yup! I was agreeing with you, though I apologize if it came across as a directed criticism.

 

[Krassi]

Hi!

Well i have been hunting fo Jnats for more than 3 years now and actually checked those crazy yahoo auctions since at least 2 years now.
There is really a lot of stuff getting sold and all the seller mentioned are thrusted sellers i also got many stones from.

Of course can you be sure on one thing.. the professional sellers know what they are selling and its value and a sick stone is also recognized by collectors and other people.
some stones are 100% sure fire and forget good Suitas or else..

for me it was the trill to by something with a ****** description, crappy photos that could have been shot with a mikrowave and epic descriptions like "old barer stone"..
Well you can score winners or .. well not actual losers but ok stones.

My best stones are those wich went under the radar from most other people and turn out to be incredible.. Like my 3 Kilo 250x120x40 Okudo Shiro Suita Kuro Renge or my Perfekt Ohira Shiro Suita Aka Renge (aka "the one everybody wants")

It became a habit for me to collect stones.. espially the thrill when you are sitting at german customs and the people all know you as "the stone maniac" and you open the parcel and its a killer stone... and the guy at customs thinks you are total brainwrecked ) .. because you look at a stone and are happy like it was a goldbar...


Also as chef doom mentioned and also watanabe told me from the begining:
"Don't waste you're money on natural coarse stones."

Well my only bad luck was with a 9 kilo Death star size Stone that i thought could be an Okudo Kuro renge Shiro suita.. well its a 1k course and had funky 180 euros shipping ) but you can grind dathstars on it.. two at once )

With 330mate i also had luck to score a huge okudo shiro suita that turned out to be excellent.One stone i would never sell but i got it on ebay wich seems to bee the junkjard place for the stoneseller where they sell their crap.


With those auctions its best if you spot something that is 100% sure something that you can recognize and thaen its form one of the mentioned vendors..
But it still is a blind buy! You have to thrust your guts and that the seller sells you what you think.. so dondt forget that.. But still its the most used online platfrom in japan for this and a professional online seller wondt risk his rating for some fast bucks and ripping of someone with crap.

Seeya, daniel!
And Yeah!! i have been dead for a while here.. sorry for my absence!

 

[K813zra]

Meh, I have not really had any issues with junk stones but I tend to buy from only a few sources (already listed) and the stones are tested. That is not to say that I have not ended up with stones that I hated, because I have, but that is not the same as them being junk. They simply did not fit my needs. Many knives are that way as well.

Example of a stone that I do not love is a Yaginoshima Suita. Freaky hard, harder than the other two that I had used by a fair margin. Slow too. But it did cut. What it did well was polish the edge and quite well. See, for me that was the issue. I like my edges to feel refined yet have loads of bite. Almost as if a mix of grits ranging from 2k to 8k in the same stone. Such a hard fine stone will not do this for me. On the flip side, one of my favorite finishers is a overly soft Takashima (Lv2 or softer) that I picked up for a few dollars. Not super muddy on narrow bevels but a mud factory on wide bevels. Wonderful feedback and the edge left is refined but with tons and tones of bite. Almost as if I get the polish of about a 6(ish)k synthetic with the bite of a 2-3k. Love it to death. I have a similar stone that is a Hideriyama and yet, I have a love-hate relationship with that stone. I think it is because the Hideri is not quite as "clean" a stone.

Moving on, I am one of those weirdos who actually likes coarser natural stones. I love my super soft Amakusa (melts like butter under a hot ear of corn) for setting bevels. For speed and aggression it falls between my Gesshin 400 and Shapton Pro 1k but it feels great in use, to me. So, yeah, I guess we all have different experiences etc. My Omura, not so much. Either of them. Wakayama (not really an Omura) and Kyushu. Neither are what I consider aggressive enough in metal removal for how coarse their scratch pattern is. However, they make good transition stones from synthetics to naturals on cladding, if that is your thing.

Though, my most successful purchases have probably been my Monzen-to and Aono aoto. These two stones, my renditions at least, are fairly similar in many ways yet very different. I am not sure that I could pick one over the other as a "keeper" which is why I still have both. Neither stone is overly fine nor overly aggressive. Both fall in that 2-4k range, depending on how you use them and I find that I can work that entire spectrum. The Monzen-to being slightly coarser or rather leaving an edge that is more aggressive and the Aono slightly finer or leaving an edge that seems more "smooth". However, the Monzen is hands down the winner when it comes to cosmetic finishes on a wide/singe bevel. Though it does leave some coarse scratches it give that foggy finish and one that is dark at that. The Aono has some fog but is light and patchy. It polishes better, I suppose you could say but still in the mid grit range, for me.

My experience is that I have gone through a few dozen stones before my interest in finding that perfect stone has started to wane and excepting that I need a few to get me by. Along this journey I have learned that I am fairly safe, in terms of getting a working stone, so long as I buy from a reputable seller who tests their stones and communicates well. Sometimes a heavily used stone from a forum member is the way to go and particularly if it has been tried by more than one of the heavyweights here so that you can see different takes of the same stone. I have also learned that while generalities are to be taken with a grain of salt much of the time, sometimes they hold validity while other times they hold none, at least for me. In this case I feel that it is based off of my taste and weighed against the opinion of the user. If their taste matches mine, the generality holds more weight for my situation otherwise, not so much. But the main thing that I have learned is to read, watch, follow etc many people on this forum and gauge their reaction to particular stones, types, vendors, technique and so much more before I myself act.

Now, what has all of that taught me? Well, where to acquire a stone that won't be junk from the start. I still had to develop my own preferences and you simply can not do that without trying stones. But with time you can decide which stones you are more likely to enjoy, by description, and that is better than shooting in the dark 100% of the time.

As for failing, or succeeding at using a particular stone, well, that is an entirely different story. Some stones I have detested at the beginning of my search and I tossed them in a drawer only to come back to them and love them. Not only did I have to learn how to use that particular stone before passing judgement but I had to learn how to use natural stones in general and develop a preference or at least an understanding of stones even those that I do not like before I could properly pass judgement on a stone. Rather to say, I had to learn to crawl before I could walk. That does not always end in me successfully using a stone I have cast aside when I first come back to it but it has allowed me a better understanding of each individual stone and that is how I now approach all stones, as individual examples. And for me that was a significant growth.

Also, taking a rest from naturals to re-solidify my skills on synthetics really helped as well.

Anyway, that is my journey, in a nutshell, so far. With loads of stones and some frustration left out of the picture (skill related rather than the fault of the stone). I think it, at least for me, is a very personal thing and I am not sure if such experiences are helpful to others in anyway but, there it is.

 

[Migraine]

As a JNAT beginner with only 1 stone, buying something from a trusted seller here on B/S/T felt by far the best way to go about things.

 

[Xenif]

See a lot of interest in Jnats lately, so I'm gonna bump this thread, lots of good info already, big thank you for all those that shared their info/thoughts/experiences

Remember this thread is all about senior stoners helping out the junior stoners

 

[Gloom]

Thank you for bumping this thread Xenif! As a newcomer to JNATs and also fairly new to free hand sharpening the information here is super helpful. The community here is amazing and has really helped tremendously when it comes to learning about things. I ended up going the all in route and bought some amazing stones that will last a lifetime. Figured it was the way to go as I've heard from many that quality stones are becoming harder to come across and getting very expensive. Now the fun part is learning how each one behaves and trying to resist buying every pretty looking stone I see.

 

[lemeneid]

eBay is a total crapshoot. A friend of mine got a totally awesome Ohira Suita for $250 whilst I got a totally craptacular Tomae.

I started my Jnat journey by buying stones from Otto here. And he’s delivered on what I wanted so far. An Aizu which really upped my sharpening game and a super hard, super fine Narutaki Asagi which would make any sword polisher gasp in awe.

I’ve never achieved such nice edges with synths before. But I definitely agree with others, hard jnats really require you to have good fundamentals on synths first before reaping the rewards. So before jumping to nats, make sure your basics are great. Also, maybe try a softer stone first as they can be a little more forgiving and easy to work with.

I’m still a newbie though, so the learning journey will be long and tough

 

[Hanmak17]

• Various unnamed nagura/fingerstones (various sources) - this is the secret sauce. Naguras allow you to polish and play with finishes without buying a $2000 rock. I have a number of them, all purchased from JNS or from members here/elsewhere. All stones work differently, finger stones are no exception. But a small flake of Uchigomori is a hell of a lot cheaper than a brick.

This particular point is sage advice. In retrospect, I wish that I had started exploring with Nagura's & fingerstones vs full size stones. I would likely have accumulated fewer stones have built a bigger cache of shards. Don't get me wrong I love the collection of stones I have accumulated, but I spent a rediculous amounts of money to accumulate collectors items vs practical tools IMO. Figured if I bought the best stones I could find, I would get to the learning faster. Turns out I was wrong (as tgfencer said), until you know how to use em, they are door stops from a quality and usefulness perspective.

One of the other things, I have realized over time, is that while I can put a ridiculously sharp edge (polished) on a knife, I actually prefer the toothier edge of synths. I do have a Shobudani Suita that I purchased from Craig at Carbonknifeco a while back which is a great polisher, but particularly useful for stropping or setting a micro-bevel. Probably a fabulous razor stone as well. Have never been able to figure out why that stone in particular leaves such a fine edge, it just does.

Last thing I would say, given the apparent slow down in stone sales on the NK-BST, there appears to be a buyers market developing in Jnats. I suspect that people are going to find some really nice stones for well below the cost they were purchased for coming up this year. Hell I may "give away" a few of the gems I picked up sometime in the future.

 

[nevin]

There's a dude on Instagram who takes junk Chinese stones and lacquers and stamps them so they look a little like Jnats. Don't think he sells often but best to be cautious around him.

He sell the best junk!