Looking for a 210mm Deba for Whole Salmon (Questionnaire Attached...)

[Geopatriot]

Thanks in advance for your inputs and useful advice. Always appreciate the insights coming from this forum.

LOCATION
<<I’m on assignment in the Middle East, live in the Rep. of Georgia, but have a shipping address in the U.S. which forwards my packages>>


KNIFE TYPE
What type of knife are you interested in (e.g., chef’s knife, slicer, boning knife, utility knife, bread knife, paring knife, cleaver)? <<Traditional Japanese Deba, NOT a Western Deba.>>

Are you right or left handed? <<Right-handed>>

Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle? <<Prefer a D-Shaped, or Octagon handle, but could go with a classic Japanese handle. Prefer darker resin composite wooden handles or other materials that have anti-microbial properties.>>

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)? <<Prefer 210mm.>>

Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no) <<Let’s say yes, but I would consider a non-stainless option. I don’t have any non-stainless steel knives and am curious to get into it, but of course, I have doubts if I would be able to consistently give it the care it deserves.>>

What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife? <<$200 is the top end, but I'd prefer to stay around $140-$160.>>

KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment? <<Home>>

What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.) <<Primarily for breaking down whole Salmon, Sturgeon, other fishes and maybe for certain poultry like turkey, duck, etc. and rabbit. I have other knives which handle these tasks easily.>>

What knife, if any, are you replacing? <<For breaking down large fish, I don’t have any really good options. I have a nice little 4” Miyabe Kodeba, which I got it for an amazing price. it is useful for limited tasks and I definitely feel it’s not safe for large fish. I was surprised that it chipped fairly easily. I have a Miyabi Kaizen 9.5-in. Chef's Knife, which is so thin, I would hesitate to use it to go through a whole fish or cut the head off. I also have a Shun Classic 6-in. Gokujo Boning/Fillet Knife, which is just not large enough to go through a whole salmon.>>

Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for the common types of grips.) <<Finger Point and Pinch Grip.>>

What cutting motions do you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for types of cutting motions and identify the two or three most common cutting motions, in order of most used to least used.) <For this knife and purpose, mostly Draw and Slice.>>

What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.) <<Looking for a much larger knife that can go through a whole salmon with ease and minimal cutting. Also want a Deba which can easily cut the head and slice through a whole fish.>>

Better aesthetics (e.g., a certain type of finish; layered/Damascus or other pattern of steel; different handle color/pattern/shape/wood; better scratch resistance; better stain resistance)? <<Not important.>>

Comfort (e.g., lighter/heavier knife; better handle material; better handle shape; rounded spine/choil of the knife; improved balance)? <<For home use, I expect this knife to get limited use (6-10 times per month). So, I’m not sure I’d put too much priority on this.>>

Ease of Use (e.g., ability to use the knife right out of the box; smoother rock chopping, push cutting, or slicing motion; less wedging; better food release; less reactivity with food; easier to sharpen)? <<Like most, I’m looking for crazy sharp and strong enough to cut the fish head without damaging the knife.>>

Edge Retention (i.e., length of time you want the edge to last without sharpening)? <<Would prefer to get 4-6 uses before needing to sharpen. But, that being said, I am not afraid to sharpen my knives.>>



KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board? (Yes or no.) <<Bamboo and synthetic>>

Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.) <<Yes>>

If not, are you interested in learning how to sharpen your knives? (Yes or no.)

Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? (Yes or no.) << I have a full set already.>>


SPECIAL REQUESTS/COMMENT

<<I’m not afraid of a traditional Japanese Deba. I like a challenge and I look at my knives as a long-term investment. Is the 210mm Deba large enough for a whole 3-5 kg salmon and the other tasks outlined above? What other uses do you find the Deba appropriate for?>>

 

[btbyrd]

The Tojiro DP western deba gets a lot of love as a versatile stainless workhorse with a western handle. The 240mm version seems to be the most popular length, which is what I have. Though that's big enough to filet a big fish a like mahi mahi, it's still manageable enough to use on salmon. But the best thing about the blade is its giant mass and its forgiving heat treatment. It is very difficult to do damage to the edge. You can crack through lobster and crab shells with impunity. I've used mine on more shellfish than fish fish. It can also be used to break down bone-in chicken. I use it to cut through woody herbs like thyme and rosemary (which can chip the thin, brittle edges on many j-knives). The weight of the blade makes it excellent for smashing garlic (and anything else, really). Its weight will also fall through pineapple.

It's a beast. I just love mine, and it gets far more use in my kitchen than a traditional deba ever would, but I don't break down a lot of whole fish. I liked it so much that I bought a second one that has a different, all-stainless steel handle. Tojiro calls this this the "Fujitora" series, which has the same blade as the Tojiro DP series. Though I actually prefer the feel of the stainless handle of the Fujitora series, which is more ergonomic and has better fit and finish. Here's a pic of the knives next to each other.




I never actually used the stainless handled one. I got it because I didn't love the handle on the DP and had asked around about getting some custom scales put on it. Rehandling the knife would have cost more than the knife itself, which is sort of a silly proposition. The stainless handle feels much better (in my opinion) but it looks out of place next to my other butchery knives. That's sort of a superficial reason to prefer the DP, but it's still a reason. Anyway, I'm currently selling that Fujitora series Tojiro 240 new in box, if you might be interested. It's a very fun blade.

 

[daveb]

I have a 180 deba and a 210 mioroshi deba, both of which are well suited for salmon. A 165 will do in a pinch.

I would be hesitant to pay less than $200 for any single bevel knife and a quality deba may be beyond your budget requirement.

Perhaps check with Jon @ JKI for availability of a Uraku. And consider a mioroshi - he lists a 210 for $250 though it's currently out of stock.

 

[HRC_64]

210 std. deba is a monster for the home, ins't it?

 

[Qapla']

If this is off-topic, I apologize and am fine with this being moved elsewhere. I am not a deba-user so I can't answer the original question, but what defines Georgian knives?

 

[pete84]

For Salmon, 180-210 standard deba or 195-240 mioroshi deba get my vote. Uraku from JKI are the most consistent in quality and come with saya, best bang-for-buck entry level single bevels in my experience.

You need to up your budget $100-150 more to get a decent single bevel, $200-300 is the sweet spot.

If you must stay sub-$200, a 165-240mm western deba get my vote. Tojiro DP as previously mentioned, or maybe a Misono Moly or Fujiwara FKM if stainless is a must. (https://japanesechefsknife.com/collections/western-deba)

Benefit to the western deba is they have synthetic handle materials which make for a much easier cleaning. There is a learning curve in working with traditional single bevels, one of the details being learning technique that keeps the raw wood handles relatively clean and free of gunk/fish oils/smells.

 

[Alex M.S.]

Hideo Kiataoka makes some nice single bevels that are reasonably priced in blue #2, white #1 and white #2. I’m currently using his 180mm blue #2 deba for professional use (salmon quite often) and I love it.

 

[Geopatriot]

If this is off-topic, I apologize and am fine with this being moved elsewhere. I am not a deba-user so I can't answer the original question, but what defines Georgian knives?

Unfortunately, I don't have much good to say about Georgian knives. There is no local production of kitchen knives at any price/quality. Chefs and the general population are geared to buy the cheapest Chinese products you can imagine. The majority of people use knives that cost less than $5. Knife safety, maintenance and care is atrociously low. Actually, that was my inspiration to take control of my own knives and learn how to sharpen them. A "Professional Georgian Knife Sharpener" took off about a cm from one of my Chef's Knives and totally screwed up the geometry.

There are 2-3 guys trying to make quality, historical inspired swords, but their metallurgy knowledge, technique, etc. is all pretty low. There is very little acceptance of apprenticeship, craftsmanship and focus on quality among Georgians. This will change, but it could take another 20 years.

 

[Geopatriot]

210 std. deba is a monster for the home, ins't it?

I'm surprised by this comment. A whole Salmon of the type that I mentioned is about 254mm at its widest point. I don't need a knife to cover this entire distance, but I would think a 240 mm would be perfect given my investigations into this. I have a knife that is 180mm and that would be quite small for a whole salmon or sturgeon -- in my humble opinion.

 

[Geopatriot]

Thanks to everyone for the input thus far! I've looked further into every knife mentioned here. It looks like most suggestions are pushing me over $200. I can afford it and I'd like something that is quality-made and will last a long time. I'm just questioning if there really aren't good options less than $200 for a knife that is only used twice a week (or so) for home use?

 

[HRC_64]

I'm surprised by this comment. A whole Salmon of the type that I mentioned is about 254mm at its widest point. I don't need a knife to cover this entire distance, but I would think a 240 mm would be perfect given my investigations into this. I have a knife that is 180mm and that would be quite small for a whole salmon or sturgeon -- in my humble opinion.

Yeah, its counter-intuitive. Traditional notion of the maximal cut/insertion length is (only) to the spine.
For example, 50-75% across a 240mm fish is only 120-180mm, and so on.

 

[daveb]

I'm just questioning if there really aren't good options less than $200 for a knife that is only used twice a week (or so) for home use?

I don't use mine that often - and I have 3 of them

Something to be said for having exactly the right tool for a task.

 

[Alex M.S.]

In my opinion a 210mm is huge for a home cook. At work I break down everything from small mackerels, 2# soles and everything up to 45# salmons and 60# halibuts with a 180mm deba. A lot of it depends on what method you are using for round fish butchery. I go up and over the spine for large salmons but you could also go straight down the spine if your skills are limited.

 

[Brandon Wicks]

In my opinion a 210mm is huge for a home cook. At work I break down everything from small mackerels, 2# soles and everything up to 45# salmons and 60# halibuts with a 180mm deba. A lot of it depends on what method you are using for round fish butchery. I go up and over the spine for large salmons but you could also go straight down the spine if your skills are limited.

I've done the same. In fact the deba in my avatar with a coho salmon is 180mm. A 210 deba is huge. I've had one before but found it actually too cumbersome for a softer boned fish like salmon. I pretty much just ended up using it to cut off yellowfin tuna heads. A 210-240 mioroshi deba would be ideal. You can get a Sakai White #2 Mioroshi 210mm for $205

 

[Ochazuke]

If you’re looking for a salmon knife go with a sakekiri!

I used to break down a couple hundred pounds of salmon every week and the sakekiri was really helpful. They’re not a popular shape so they’re kind of hard to find, but I believe Watanabe sells kurouchi sakekiri for a less than 200 with shipping.

 

[Ochazuke]

I also agree that 180 is a great size for even pretty big salmon.

 

[StonedEdge]

Get any decent 210-240 mioroshi deba and be done with it.