Looking for a Gyuto Recommendation (Yoshikane vs. Birch and Bevel)

[Qioda]

Hi everyone,

I got caught in the rabbit hole of kitchen knifes and am looking for a new gyuto that is more interesting than my existing line up. At the moment I have a stainless Yu Kurosaki Senko Gyuto 21cm and a staining Hinoura AS Petty. However, I would like as a daylie driver in my home kitchen.

After some research, I also found some interest in european kitchen knives.

To make the recommendations easier, I filled out the questionnaire:

Location: Europe


Knife Type: Gyuto

Are you right or left handed? Right Handed


Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle? I prefer a Japanese handle.


What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)?
21cm to 24cm


Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no)
No, I am interested in stainless and staining knives. I just dont want it to be extremely reactive.


What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife?
My maximum budget is 400€

KNIFE USE
The knife is primarily used at home.


What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)?
The typical tasks would be: slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing/filleting meat and fish


What knife, if any, are you replacing?
Yu Kurosaki SG2 Senko 21cm Gyuto (it will still be used)

Grip: Pinch Grip

What cutting motions do you primarily use?
1. Push Cut
2. Rock
3. Tip Draw


What improvements do you want from your current knife?
I would like the edge to be a bit more flat than the one from Kurosaki

Better aesthetics
-> I find Nashiji and Kurouchi finishes really beautiful, however i prefer Nashiji as it does not wash away with time

Comfort
-> a nice fit and finish as well as a rounded spine and choil are important to me

Ease of Use and Care
-> Rust prone knife are fine and a patina would be nice, however not absolutely necessary
-> The knife should not be extremely delicate - I do not want to extremely baby it

Edge Retention (i.e., length of time you want the edge to last without sharpening)?
-> I think all of the known steels are fine, even Shirogami


KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board?
End Grain Cutting Board

Do you sharpen your own knives? Yes


SPECIAL REQUESTS/COMMENTS

By following recommendations, I found the following knives pretty interesting
- Yoshikane 21cm SKD Gyuto
- Birch and Bevel Carbon Gyuto

It would be nice if you guys have some experience with the above knives

Do you find the Yoshikane to be too delicate for a home cook? I would put a microbevel or new edge on it, as I read some posts about a fragile edge OOTB
How do you rate the birch and bevel in comparison to the Yoshikane?

If you have other knife recommendations, especially european carbon knives in my price range, i'd be super happy

thank you and have a nice week

 

[Luminaire]

Having used both- both cut extremely well & are equally fun to use. You really can't go wrong with either
I didn't find the yoshi to be fragile, but I'd go with the birch & bevel just for the handle comfort + longer size...210 feels too small

 

[Qioda]

Having used both- both cut extremely well & are equally fun to use. You really can't go wrong with either
I didn't find the yoshi to be fragile, but I'd go with the birch & bevel just for the handle comfort + longer size...210 feels too small

Thank you for the message do the same rules (no twisting, no scrarping, no hard food etc.) that apply to Japanese knives apply for the birch and bevel one?

From the pass around of the Birch and Bevel it looked like the knife isnt too reactive

 

[labor of love]

Sorry I have no experience w Birch and Bevel gyuto but there is an in depth review of the knife I watched on YouTube recently (I can link it if you’d like) where it’s stated the knife has a lot of curve in the profile. I only bring this up because you say you’d like more flatter profile.

 

[Matt Jacobs]

Personally I would go Birch & Bevel. The Yoshi may give a little more wow factor when cutting and its more stainless but I think the B&B is a better overall package. Easier to have a maker do a spa day in the future as well.

 

[Luminaire]

Thank you for the message do the same rules (no twisting, no scrarping, no hard food etc.) that apply to Japanese knives apply for the birch and bevel one?

From the pass around of the Birch and Bevel it looked like the knife isnt too reactive

Ya same rules, just want to avoid chipping the edge & losing height when sharpening the chips out. Hard food is fine, just avoid things like bones/frozen/etc. Also ya it's not too reactive but still way way more reactive than the yoshi so that's another consideration. My instance of the knife wasn't very curvy so maybe reach out and ask them to pick one for you that is flatter overall.

 

[myguidingmoonlight]

For pure cutting performance, no Yoshikane has ever disappointed me. Still some of the best J-knives out there.

 

[Qioda]

Sounds great everything, in fact I like it that the BB builds a patina - as long as it doesn’t color onions and fruits do you find the birch and bevel to be less delicate than the Yoshikane? As long as it isn’t significantly more delicate than my Kurosaki im happy

Will the finish of the BB fade with time like a kurouchi finish?

 

[timebard]

Sounds great everything, in fact I like it that the BB builds a patina - as long as it doesn’t color onions and fruits do you find the birch and bevel to be less delicate than the Yoshikane? As long as it isn’t significantly more delicate than my Kurosaki im happy

Will the finish of the BB fade with time like a kurouchi finish?

You might get a little bit of discoloration on product initially with the B&B but it should calm down quickly once you get some patina on it. The finish on the one I tried seemed pretty tough - I doubt it will fade noticably from normal use for quite a few years.

Both are great knives and I'd put them in a similar performance bracket. If you use a variety of cutting motions including rocking I expect the B&B will feel a bit more versatile. A 230ish edge length is a great size for home use, especially if you already have a 210.

 

[Qioda]

You might get a little bit of discoloration on product initially with the B&B but it should calm down quickly once you get some patina on it. The finish on the one I tried seemed pretty tough - I doubt it will fade noticably from normal use for quite a few years.

Both are great knives and I'd put them in a similar performance bracket. If you use a variety of cutting motions including rocking I expect the B&B will feel a bit more versatile. A 230ish edge length is a great size for home use, especially if you already have a 210.

Thank you for the insights I also find the aspect of patina very interesting on the knife. Do you know if there are any differences between the versions with the different handle? It is same blade just with a different handle, right?

Do I need to be more careful with both of these knives compared to my Kurosaki Gyuto?

 

[Gshep91]

Thank you for the insights I also find the aspect of patina very interesting on the knife. Do you know if there are any differences between the versions with the different handle? It is same blade just with a different handle, right?

Do I need to be more careful with both of these knives compared to my Kurosaki Gyuto?

Same knives, they just changed the handle between batches.

Get the B&B and you’ll be happy. It isn’t super fragile at all, can’t compare it to your current gyuto since I’ve never used one, however I’ve had no chipping from the B&B I’ve owned.

Also the makers of the B&B line are great people who are active on this forum which I find neat.

 

[OnionSlicer]

Hey, these two are my favorite gyutos! And actually, the only full size gyutos I have left at the moment. That being said, I only use the yoshi when I need something stainless, which is almost never. It's a great knife, but I just enjoy the B&B more. The handle and the notch are comfy, the taper is more dramatic, and it's a bit taller. Personally I'm not a fan of undersized gyutos and would recommend getting the 250.

Now, there will be significantly more variation from blade to blade between B&Bs in terms of weight/height and feel. I've got one from an older batch that's 185g/54mm and one from the newest that's 215g/58mm. I'd reach out to them to inquire about what they have in stock and pick from that.

 

[pitted_soul]

I have had both as well, well I had the honyaki B&B, but I think pretty similar geometry and grind. The edge in cutting goes to the Yoshi, per effing usual, but the B&B is within degrees of performance and very good as well. I feel like everyone should own a Yoshikane at some point, but the B&B is a nice carbon compliment to it.

 

[SwampDonkey]

Have also had both. B&B 250 felt much better to me, neither had particularly good food release but the B&B was a much nicer package f&f wise, though the SKD steel of a yoshi is hard to beat. I just didn't like how low the heel height was.

 

[bradmacmt]

For pure cutting performance, no Yoshikane has ever disappointed me. Still some of the best J-knives out there.

All my JP knives are stainless clad blue no.2 (Toyama, Watanabe, Sakai Kikamori), except my Yoshikane 105mm petty. I use it every day - it's my fruit knife. I have fallen in love with it and its SKD steel. I could easily just use SKD for all my knives.

 

[Qioda]

Thanks everyone for you recommendations and experiences I think I will buy the Birch and Bevel as everyone seems to love those knives. Also im surprised how small the Yoshi looks on your comparison pic. Now I only have to decide on the handle color as well as the blade size I think I will go with the 23cm as 25cm seems to be too long for a home kitchen

 

[240_Gyutos_Only]

I have owned both the B&B 250mm Carbon Gyuto and Yoshikane 240mm Nashiji SKD. Both are terrific knives overall. Between the two, I preferred the B&B. It has a better distal taper, the thin tip is great for tip work. In addition, the B&B has better food release and a much better handle IMO than any I have seen on a Yoshi. One of the best handles I have ever used actually. And it is taller, my Yoshi was just under 50mm if I recall, making it a bit short for my pinch grip. The B&B also feels more solid, I got a few microchips and scratches on the Yoshikane but there was no visible damage on the B&B at all.

Positives for the Yoshikane are the nice nashiji, it is fairly smooth. The B&B's surface finish was a bit rough for my taste, but I think it did aid in food release. The Yoshi is lower maintenance overall with the SKD steel and stainless nashiji. And it cuts a bit better (thinner BTE) for most of the blade except the tip. Also feels nimbler and lighter, although personally I preferred the weight of the B&B.

 

[Qioda]

I have owned both the B&B 250mm Carbon Gyuto and Yoshikane 240mm Nashiji SKD. Both are terrific knives overall. Between the two, I preferred the B&B. It has a better distal taper, the thin tip is great for tip work. In addition, the B&B has better food release and a much better handle IMO than any I have seen on a Yoshi. One of the best handles I have ever used actually. And it is taller, my Yoshi was just under 50mm if I recall, making it a bit short for my pinch grip. The B&B also feels more solid, I got a few microchips and scratches on the Yoshikane but there was no visible damage on the B&B at all.

Positives for the Yoshikane are the nice nashiji, it is fairly smooth. The B&B's surface finish was a bit rough for my taste, but I think it did aid in food release. The Yoshi is lower maintenance overall with the SKD steel and stainless nashiji. And it cuts a bit better (thinner BTE) for most of the blade except the tip. Also feels nimbler and lighter, although personally I preferred the weight of the B&B.

All of that sounds pretty good which handle did you choose on your Birch and Bevel? Both look way too good When it comes to the Yoshikane, most of them have this strange wenge handle which does look kind of cheap in my opinion.

In the review section of this forum a user made a review of the Wakui V2 and the Hado Sumi Gyuto. Both of them also seem to fit my requirements pretty well and I like carbon steel knives due to their patina. The Birch and Bevel however is pretty unique in its appearance and I love the European touch of it.

 

[240_Gyutos_Only]

All of that sounds pretty good which handle did you choose on your Birch and Bevel? Both look way too good When it comes to the Yoshikane, most of them have this strange wenge handle which does look kind of cheap in my opinion.

In the review section of this forum a user made a review of the Wakui V2 and the Hado Sumi Gyuto. Both of them also seem to fit my requirements pretty well and I like carbon steel knives due to their patina. The Birch and Bevel however is pretty unique in its appearance and I love the European touch of it.

I had the Masur Birch handle. I did also demo the original 230mm with the regular dark handle during a passaround, which was also great but I liked the look of the masur better. One difference I noticed between the two is that the masur version was ground lower, which made the food release a bit better but possibly added more wedging. I didn't have problems with any substantial wedging effects on mine, but the food release was fairly decent. I cut a lot of green onions and they would usually fall off of the bevel and not ride up the knife, which I liked.

This is just an observation from the ones I used and doesn't necessarily apply to all of the newer knives. It is possible that Spare (the smith) just started grinding his knives lower in general, and that maybe the newer ones will be ground low even w/ the dark handle.

 

[porcinecephalic]

Two excellent choices. The Birch & Bevel carbon gyuto has an exceptionally resilient edge. It is more chip resistant than Yoshikane's SKD (which is terrific in many other ways).
My Birch & Bevel has the oak handle. At the time I bought it, that was the handle on offer. I'd be equally happy with the masur handle, though. Your aesthetic preferences will dictate which handle is better.

 

[concernedparent]

Have also had both. B&B 250 felt much better to me, neither had particularly good food release but the B&B was a much nicer package f&f wise, though the SKD steel of a yoshi is hard to beat. I just didn't like how low the heel height was.

Only thing that stops it from being the grail knife for me. I want a little more clearance for my off hand fingers to feel secure against the metal. I see many models are 45mm at 210mm length, like why? ...

I have the k-tip version just for this reason even though I don't like the aesthetic of k-tips.

 

[myguidingmoonlight]

For a time I considered buying those Yoshi 240mm k-tips that has 54mm heel height... And grind the k-tip off into a gyuto tip. I wonder if that's a service anyone provides.

 

[timebard]

For a time I considered buying those Yoshi 240mm k-tips that has 54mm heel height... And grind the k-tip off into a gyuto tip. I wonder if that's a service anyone provides.

Reverse rhinoplasty? https://tokushuknife.com/products/rhinoplasty-nose-job

 

[myguidingmoonlight]

Reverse rhinoplasty? https://tokushuknife.com/products/rhinoplasty-nose-job

Exactly! I can't stand how k-tips look, unless it's single beveled.

 

[concernedparent]

Exactly! I can't stand how k-tips look, unless it's single beveled.

IMO Gyuto is just the most perfect shape. Curves in all the right places but not too much curve, just so attractive to look at and admire... we're talking about knives right?

 

[plantgainz]

Having both, yoshikane skd is miles ahead. B&b offers a good overall package but the cutting performance it's not even close. Then you may not like it's intrinsic fragility due to thinness and harndness, it's flatness, but this is another story.

 

[Qioda]

Thank you for the info In the meanwhile I had both knives in my hands and sadly I did not like them - probably because I realized that the Sanjo style taper is not my favorite profile.

At the moment I am looking for a well performing Gyuto that is rather on the lasery / midweighty side of knives. If you have any recommendations here I would be happy currently I have my eyes on Tetsujins

 

[plantgainz]

Thank you for the info In the meanwhile I had both knives in my hands and sadly I did not like them - probably because I realized that the Sanjo style taper is not my favorite profile.

At the moment I am looking for a well performing Gyuto that is rather on the lasery / midweighty side of knives. If you have any recommendations here I would be happy currently I have my eyes on Tetsujins

For pure laser gyutos you can go either with shibata or Kobayashi you won't be disappointed. Shibata offers AS as well as Sg2 like Kobayashi. Not a fan of tetsujin grinds in terms of food release, but I love my yugiri from Myojin as well. Tetsujins are damn reactive as unless you go on the ginsan route. Other options are Ashi ginga (Aebl or w2), suisin inox honyaki (very underrated knives in Swedish steel probably due to their price they ain't cheap). Many Sakai knives are laserish but not a fan to be honest.

 

[jaydee]

@TeaThyme has a 240mm Tetsujin with a nice handle for sale that he can ship from germany.
Watch out for customs from Knot handcrafted. They fit nicely into the category between midweight and laserish performance.
I also hear @plantgainz has a 240mm Masashi for sale if you like tall knives.
(Not sure if they are as thin as the Kokuen series)

 

[plantgainz]

@TeaThyme has a 240mm Tetsujin with a nice handle for sale that he can ship from germany.
Watch out for customs from Knot handcrafted. They fit nicely into the category between midweight and laserish performance.
I also hear @plantgainz has a 240mm Masashi for sale if you like tall knives.
(Not sure if they are as thin as the Kokuen series)

It's amazingly thin (the tip is crazy) and a great performer but since he doesn't like sanjo style knives I didn't mention masashi. In the same league there is Nihei, konosuke sumiiro are so good.
I second jaydee on knot handcrafted, laser convex beasts with not a tremendous taper, could fit your needs very well. He does both carbon and stainless.