looking for recommendations for a taller 210 Gyuto

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Joined
Apr 11, 2023
Messages
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Location
Switzerland
LOCATION
What country are you in?
CH

KNIFE TYPE
What type of knife are you interested in (e.g., chef’s knife, slicer, boning knife, utility knife, bread knife, paring knife, cleaver)?
I'm looking for a chef's knife/gyuto.

Are you right or left handed?
right handed


Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle?
On longer knives I prefer Japanese handles.


What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)?
200-215mm, I don't have too much space in the kitchen and a 240 seems unwieldy


Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no)
I'm thinking of a stainless or semi-stainless knife. So far I haven't worked with carbon knives. I've done some reading on them and I kinda know what to expect from one. It's always easy for distractions to arise around the house, so I think semi-stainless/stainless is a safe bet. Maybe I will take the plunge for a carbon knife if someone convinces me :)


What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife?
500€, but I'm willing to be flexible because it's supposed to be a nice present for myself


KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment?
The knife is intended for home use.


What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.)
The primary task of this longer Gyuto should be to cut larger root veggies and cabbage.


What knife, if any, are you replacing?
I've been using a Shiro Kamo R2 Santoku 165mm. I'm not replacing it, but looking for a longer addition.

Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for the common types of grips.)
pinch

What cutting motions do you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for types of cutting motions and identify the two or three most common cutting motions, in order of most used to least used.)
I like to use pull-cuts, tip draws and the occasional rocking


What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.)
The Kamo is quite a laser at 2mm at the spine. I'm looking for something slightly sturdier and thicker, maybe around 2.5mm.

Better aesthetics
I enjoy Migaki and and Nashiji finishes. Not too interested in Damascus anymore.


Comfort
I enjoy knives that balance close or on the heel. So I usually go for slightly heavier handles. Also I'm looking for something with good knuckle clearance, for me this means at least 48mm tall, 49mm is better.



KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board?
bamboo

Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.)
yes

Considerations
On the top of my list is the Konosuke 210mm HD2 with Laurel/Ebony handle. There seems to be a new version with increased height that brings it up to 49mm. Unfortunately I can't find it anywhere in stock and if I wait for it, I will need to be very lucky to get one. I've also considered a Yoshikane 210mm SKD Kiritsuke. I love the finish and the height, however I'm not sure I can get used to the flat profile. The third option is a Matsubara 210m Gyuto G3. It's super tall but I can't find a lot of information on its performance. The final option I'm considering is actually the Myojin Riki Seisakusho 230mm. The 210mm version isn't tall enough for me. I'm very curious to experience a Myojin grind. This will be another R2 knife though...

Can you recommend any of these knives? What other knives would you recommend in my situation?
 
Check out the Yoshikane Kiritsuke (k-tip gyuto). The 210mm version is about 52mm heel height. The regular gyutos are shorter.
 
So the first thing I'd recommend is to replace the bamboo cutting board. They're hard on edges. No need to go fancy, a simple edge grain will suffice.

Then I'll toss out a bit of a different idea and suggest contacting @Knot Handcrafted to see if the two of you can work something out.

https://www.knothandcrafted.com/products
Michael is London based which may be beneficial for you. He does great work at approachable prices and he's used to making dense/weighty handles. AEB-L would be quite nice and cost friendly.

Could make a fine, unique gift for yourself.
 
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If you decide you want even taller, Hado Blue 1 210mm would work. It has a small bit of Damascus on it, but it's honestly very subtle.

I will say, Sakai 240 gyutos measure in around 220-235mm and don't seem unwieldy. Having enough space is another matter though. It seems to be a common enough that people try 240s and like the size. I'm speaking from a biased perspective as I like 230-260mm gyutos the most.

Also, second replacing the bamboo cutting board
 
First change the bamboo board. It's a sacrilege cutting in that kind of boards.
 
I'd absolutely go for the Matsubara. I love those knives for the extra tall heel. Check with the vendor on the actual height. I've seen the recent 210 ginsan ones around low 50s, but my stainless clad B#2 210 is a whopping 60mm. Both the ginsan and the B2 are right around the thickness you're aiming for.
 
What kind of material would you recommend for the cutting board?

I love the suggestion to contact Knot Handcrafted. Just took a look at his work and it looks nice!
End grain wool boards or other made os any kind of rubber. The last one are a bit expensive.
 
If you're open to Western makers, check out Bjorn Birgersson and Frederick Spare in Sweden, maybe HSC in France. They should all be in your price range. I believe their offerings are typically carbon steel but if you just soak them overnight in coffee they get a nice stable patina that protects pretty well.
 
If you're open to Western makers, check out Bjorn Birgersson and Frederick Spare in Sweden, maybe HSC in France. They should all be in your price range. I believe their offerings are typically carbon steel but if you just soak them overnight in coffee they get a nice stable patina that protects pretty well.
Do you get black patine with coffee?
 
If you're open to Western makers, check out Bjorn Birgersson and Frederick Spare in Sweden, maybe HSC in France. They should all be in your price range. I believe their offerings are typically carbon steel but if you just soak them overnight in coffee they get a nice stable patina that protects pretty well.
Could you elaborate by how much a patina improves corrosion resistance? Does that mean you can let the knife sit wet for 5-10 minutes on the table?
 
+1 for Matsubara as a maker. I have a funayuki, aogami 2, not ginsan. It's such a great balance between refined and hand-made. It feels substantial, but definitely not a clunker. I've only had it since January, and I ran it quickly over a 6K about two weeks after receiving it. So I can't speak to long-term sharpening/maintenance, but I think it will be fine.
 
Do you get black patine with coffee?

The specific type of steel determines how dark it gets with a coffee etch; I don’t know if that applies to more serious treatments like FeCl. IME simpler steels like white and blue get pretty close to black, while others just get battleship grey.

The knives in this photo are all coffee etch. The cumais on far left and right are vtoku core, I think the Kamon is 1.2419, the Birgersson is mystery swedish steel, and the red-handled Markin is 52100 equivalent.

FB23A36A-ABB4-4996-8625-E872A82EFA97.jpeg
 
Could you elaborate by how much a patina improves corrosion resistance? Does that mean you can let the knife sit wet for 5-10 minutes on the table?

Not sure as I’ve never done that - hopefully others can chime in. I’ll just add that type of cladding plays a role. Some claddings are very reactive, others not so much. For my own knives, once they’ve had a coffee soak then no additional patina forms. But typically I wash my knives immediately after using. If I know it’s a long job where I’ll need to go back and forth to the cutting board I use a stainless-clad instead of full carbon.
 
This knife was absolutely not on my radar. Can't find any retailers in EU who sell it unfortunately. It is at the limit of my budget. Why would you get this over the Yoshikane k-tip Kiritsuke?
It’s a great knife, Tanaka stainless cladded blue #1 and Myojin grind, the weight is perfect. Compare to Yoshikane, better Fit & finish, slightly better steel I’d argue.
 
The specific type of steel determines how dark it gets with a coffee etch; I don’t know if that applies to more serious treatments like FeCl. IME simpler steels like white and blue get pretty close to black, while others just get battleship grey.

The knives in this photo are all coffee etch. The cumais on far left and right are vtoku core, I think the Kamon is 1.2419, the Birgersson is mystery swedish steel, and the red-handled Markin is 52100 equivalent.

View attachment 237453
The last is quite dark.
There is a thread where are shown blue patinas and it is said that patina is got with meat, protein.
 
I guess I'll "steer" a bit differently from the Matsubara recommendations. I had a Matsubara ss clad/nashiji/blue no.2 210 Gyuto and it didn't steer well through things like cabbage and onions. I sold it and acquired a very similar knife, the Sakai Kikumori ss clad/nashiji/blue no.2 210 Gyuto. It steers masterfully thorough the produce that challenged the Matsubara. Could be I got a one-off lemon with the Matsubara. Dunno. I do know my experience with several of the nashiji/blue no.2 Sakai Kikumori's has been excellent. A highly underappreciated line up IMO. I have both the 210 Gyuto and 180 Bunka.

I like taller knives (I don't consider 48mm nearly tall enough), so the Sakai's at 55mm + really work well for me.

https://carbonknifeco.com/collections/sakai-kikumori/products/kikumori-nashiji-blue-2-gyuto-210mm
 
I guess I'll "steer" a bit differently from the Matsubara recommendations. I had a Matsubara ss clad/nashiji/blue no.2 210 Gyuto and it didn't steer well through things like cabbage and onions. I sold it and acquired a very similar knife, the Sakai Kikumori ss clad/nashiji/blue no.2 210 Gyuto. It steers masterfully thorough the produce that challenged the Matsubara. Could be I got a one-off lemon with the Matsubara. Dunno. I do know my experience with several of the nashiji/blue no.2 Sakai Kikumori's has been excellent. A highly underappreciated line up IMO. I have both the 210 Gyuto and 180 Bunka.

I like taller knives (I don't consider 48mm nearly tall enough), so the Sakai's at 55mm + really work well for me.

https://carbonknifeco.com/collections/sakai-kikumori/products/kikumori-nashiji-blue-2-gyuto-210mm
I'm pretty sure those are also by the same maker. I've had both. The tang style, choil shape, and heel swoop are exactly the same.
 
I've heard that said. Having had both, I'm doubtful.
I'm also convinced these two knives are by the same maker. On the internet there is only CKTG that has a video of Matsubaras G3 Damascus and Matsubaras Nashiji Blue2. The G3 has a noticeable back belly whereas the Nashiji comes to a nice stop at the heel. The Blue2 is also thicker at the spine.
 
I'm also convinced these two knives are by the same maker. On the internet there is only CKTG that has a video of Matsubaras G3 Damascus and Matsubaras Nashiji Blue2. The G3 has a noticeable back belly whereas the Nashiji comes to a nice stop at the heel. The Blue2 is also thicker at the spine.
To have such a strong conviction, I assume you've had both?
 
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