Looking for recommendations: wide bevel gyuto

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esoo

esoo

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So I'm looking to make some adjustments to my collection and as I think about it, what I'm missing is a wide bevel.

So I'm curious about options. Now I'm looking to ensure that I have a much diversity in my collection as I can. As a result, I want to avoid Y Tanaka and Nakagawa as smiths. I'd say I want to avoid Myojin and Takada as sharpeners but as far as I know they don't do wide bevel.

So far, I think there is Togashi and I've been eyeing the Hado Ginsan. I've read the Hado is pretty sweet. Yoshikane I think might fit as well, but I don't want SKD (as it overlaps with A2 I have) and I've never been impressed with White 2 (based on Y Tanaka's version).

Any suggestions for what else I might want to look at?
 
I know you want to avoid Nakagawa, but Tadokoro makes excellent wide bevels from what I've heard.
 
+1 Togashi, komorebi is also sweet if you like thin stuff. Also in regards to Nakagawa and Hado, they use to say yamatsuka did their ginsan, however they just posted this bunka for sale: here in the post they say Nakagawa forged it...I have the exact same bunka and the listing said yamatsuka when I bought it 6+ months ago. So either one of those is wrong, or they just switched to Nakagawa or they use both. Just an FYI. Also interesting that nomura is listed as one of the sharpeners

edit: did some translating...looks like this one is a Nakagawa, kanji on the back says it. Mine has different kanji on the back so I assume these ones are the yamatsuka:

yamatsuka.jpg
 
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jedy617 said:
+1 Togashi, komorebi is also sweet if you like thin stuff. Also in regards to Nakagawa and Hado, they use to say yamatsuka did their ginsan, however they just posted this bunka for sale: here in the post they say Nakagawa forged it...I have the exact same bunka and the listing said yamatsuka when I bought it 6+ months ago. So either one of those is wrong, or they just switched to Nakagawa or they use both. Just an FYI. Also interesting that nomura is listed as one of the sharpeners

edit: did some translating...looks like this one is a Nakagawa, kanji on the back says it. Mine has different kanji on the back so I assume these ones are the yamatsuka:

View attachment 239997
Click to expand...

So the gyuto I was eyeing has the same kanji on it is as the one in this picture, which looks different from the one in Instagram post. The one in the Insta post matches a knife listed as Nakagawa/Morihiro. Can't read kanji and google translate isn't helping out trying to take pictures.

I'm not strictly hung-up on no Nakagawa, but I have the Kono MM and Ms Mori would've learned from Shiraki/Nakagawa so I was considering that close enough to try someone else.
 
Heckel7302 said:
When I was facing a similar conundrum I ended up with a Togashi. In part because I wanted White #1. It’s a very nice knife.
Click to expand...

I had a Togashi W#1 240 at one point, that got bumped by something else the next day. Looking at my notes, at the time it would've needed a thinning but it is one that I'm looking at with potential (of course based on availability).
 
M1k3 said:
Munetoshi, Heiji, Shiro Kamo AS.
Click to expand...

Munetoshi is W#2, which I'm not sure about (give past experiences). Although in a wide bevel format it may be better.

Heiji - how high is the bevel on this? I've used some knives that I would consider "low" wide bevels that I didn't like, but higher up seem like it would be good.

Shiro Kamo - it's a little thing, but kuro finish is not really my thing.
 
esoo said:
So the gyuto I was eyeing has the same kanji on it is as the one in this picture, which looks different from the one in Instagram post. The one in the Insta post matches a knife listed as Nakagawa/Morihiro. Can't read kanji and google translate isn't helping out trying to take pictures.

I'm not strictly hung-up on no Nakagawa, but I have the Kono MM and Ms Mori would've learned from Shiraki/Nakagawa so I was considering that close enough to try someone else.
Click to expand...
It says 銀三　本鍛錬　or ginsan real (hand) forged but that doesn’t give you a lot of information. Could be both Nakagawa or Yamatsuka. I’ve only had great experiences with knives from Nakagawa/Morihiro hamono, whereas it’s true that the bevels of Tadokoro need quite a bit of work to be made flat, at least in my case. Considering that they’re performing great and the bevels will become flat over time I still think his double bevel knives are very good value.
 
EShin said:
It says 銀三　本鍛錬　or ginsan real (hand) forged but that doesn’t give you a lot of information. Could be both Nakagawa or Yamatsuka. I’ve only had great experiences with knives from Nakagawa/Morihiro hamono, whereas it’s true that the bevels of Tadokoro need quite a bit of work to be made flat, at least in my case. Considering that they’re performing great and the bevels will become flat over time I still think his double bevel knives are very good value.
Click to expand...

For Tadokoro, would you have said that they were evenly concave (which I'm fine with), or were they uneven? I would say the pricing does look reasonable, and I could always ask for one that is left-biased (which would be a bonus for me).
 
esoo said:
Munetoshi is W#2, which I'm not sure about (give past experiences). Although in a wide bevel format it may be better.

Heiji - how high is the bevel on this? I've used some knives that I would consider "low" wide bevels that I didn't like, but higher up seem like it would be good.

Shiro Kamo - it's a little thing, but kuro finish is not really my thing.
Click to expand...
I work in a pro environment and have no complaints about Munetoshi White #2.

I've seen in the past the Heiji bevels kind of high. Then a bit lower. There's been some newer ones floating around that have higher bevels. Could order directly and ask for higher bevels.

If you don't like kuro finish, then Munetoshi is out, unless you're able to get one of the Migaki ones.
 
esoo said:
For Tadokoro, would you have said that they were evenly concave (which I'm fine with), or were they uneven? I would say the pricing does look reasonable, and I could always ask for one that is left-biased (which would be a bonus for me).
Click to expand...
Almost perfectly even!

Heiji will be very different, bigger, heavier, more tapered and more powerful but less nimble. Mine had very low bevels, around 1 cm, but there’s variation. Could be a good choice if you want to try something completely different from the Sakai knives.
 
esoo said:
I was looking at Tadokoro, but the reviews I could find were mixed. Some people said they were fine, others said that the bevels were very uneven.
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The one I got is really good, tho my friend got a Sakimaru that's kind uneven, so I guess there's bit of chance here.

There's also Itadaki at Miura.
 
blokey said:
The one I got is really good, tho my friend got a Sakimaru that's kind uneven, so I guess there's bit of chance here.

There's also Itadaki at Miura.
Click to expand...

EShin said:
Almost perfectly even!

Heiji will be very different, bigger, heavier, more tapered and more powerful but less nimble. Mine had very low bevels, around 1 cm, but there’s variation. Could be a good choice if you want to try something completely different from the Sakai knives.
Click to expand...

Thanks for that info on Tadokoro. I'll have to look at his knives again.

As for Heiji, that knife of low grind is not something I prefer. I find it just gets to thick and wedge-y with the shinogi that low. The s-grinds I have touched have the same issue.
 
M1k3 said:
I work in a pro environment and have no complaints about Munetoshi White #2.

I've seen in the past the Heiji bevels kind of high. Then a bit lower. There's been some newer ones floating around that have higher bevels. Could order directly and ask for higher bevels.

If you don't like kuro finish, then Munetoshi is out, unless you're able to get one of the Migaki ones.
Click to expand...
Migaki munetoshi’s supposed to drop in 16 days at knifewear’s garage sale.

Always been curious about the height, beef and price point, but a little leery of the profile. Looks like their flat spot location require some elbow lifting in use.
 
Just my two cents. I think if you are going to have one wide bevel gyuto, it should be one of the Sakai offerings. Y. Tanaka, Nakagawa, Togashi are all great choices.
 
Pie said:
Migaki munetoshi’s supposed to drop in 16 days at knifewear’s garage sale.

Always been curious about the height, beef and price point, but a little leery of the profile. Looks like their flat spot location require some elbow lifting in use.
Click to expand...
Munetoshi is the best edge retention of white #2 I've tried by a long shot and I can't get the damn thing to take a fun patina it's super mellow. My particular Munetoshi 240 is a fairly curvy profile, Tostadas has one that is flatter. Mine is 245x51 at the heel and a truly fantastic cutter, don't be fooled by the beef.


20221221_004032.jpg


20221208_161426.jpg
 
Second vote for Komorebi.

If you’re after high shinogi, I’d definitely look at the new dammy Hado B1 that’s starting to pop up. 4mm spine at the heel with a very aggressive taper.
 
In terms of western makers, I think Birgersson is also something that might interest you.

Likely a new steel, low bevels but quite the opposite of wedgy based on the two I’ve touched.Stiction is actually quite well balanced with the low bevels. And in terms of aesthetic, refined but yet still rustic enough to not baby.
 
There are so many different configurations of wide bevel, each with different performance properties.

Rather than evererybody nominating their favourite wide bevel, perhaps you could tell us: What are you looking for in a wide bevel?
 
Scott said:
In terms of western makers, I think Birgersson is also something that might interest you.

Likely a new steel, low bevels but quite the opposite of wedgy based on the two I’ve touched.Stiction is actually quite well balanced with the low bevels. And in terms of aesthetic, refined but yet still rustic enough to not baby.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the suggestion, but at this point the western side of my collection is locked up pretty well and nothing I want to change out.
 
Nemo said:
There are so many different configurations of wide bevel, each with different performance properties.

Rather than evererybody nominating their favourite wide bevel, perhaps you could tell us: What are you looking for in a wide bevel?
Click to expand...
I would say that I’m thinking of wide bevel as mid height, slightly concave ground. I know having a flat grind in the wide bevel is easier to polish, but the concave grind will be more performant and if I want polish, I will just go to powders. I also want the ease of thinning that the wide bevel brings.

Low wide bevels (for example in s-grinds), I find get too thick too close to the edge. They become wedgey on stuff like onions which I don’t like.

So I’m thinking blades like Kagekiyo, Hado, Tadokoro and OG Kono Fujiyama but I was looking to hear what other smiths/sharpeners were doing them to keep diversity in my collection
 
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