Massdrop III: Kamon

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I wasn’t really asking as part of this massdrop, but in general. I was wondering/hoping if I could buy a 2nd handle afterwards.

I expect the answer is no since he doesn’t mention it on his website, but hope springs eternal.
Totally get it and maybe I didn’t articulate it properly. Ben may correct me but I think [logistically] he would have to have your blade in hand to make the second handle to ensure a precise fit as no 2 blades are the same. Whether or not he offers the option after the fact, he would have to clarify.
 
That's correct @Hockey3081. For the handle fit up I need the knife with me. It's still precise but made by hand and therefore fitted individually to a certain blade.

The organization of this mass drop will make it too confusing to deliver the knives with a second handle I fear @Delat. That is really for several reasons regarding the organization around the making and packing of the knives but also the distribution which I don't do in this case.
However in general for a custom knife, a second handle is an option I offer. The reason for why I don't mention it on my website is because the changing handle part is not really the intended use of my handles beeing a take down construction but since they can be taken down anyways, it's an option.
 
Definitely @Knivperson! I'll share different important and/or interesting stages on my Instagram and then link them here. I think that should work?

As I said I'm very excited about that project. My reasons for excitement are probably different than those of prospect customers though. The customer will get a finished knife and mostly look forward to that instead of the process behind the making.
However my main focus lies on how to plan the different stages out and when to do what. Not only will it need a lot of discipline to pull off, as at times making so many of the same knives can be challenging due to repetition, but also will need a well thought through plot to be efficient and not loose too much time because of a lack of organization.

But I don't worry too much. In fact technically speaking I've already started with the mass drop knives. I've been partly sourcing the materials necessary 2 weeks ago so I'm good in time :). I'll finish the batch which is on my workbench right now and then start with the mass drop knives as long as everything I need arrives in time.
 
Ah well, I can‘t pretend not to be slightly envious - I took NKW‘s ’go to sleep’ advice to heart, necked a load of vallies and woke up 3 days later with no Kamon joy - but best wishes to the lucky winners who made the cut this time around. Sounds a cracking knife in prospect and Mr Ben K seems well engaged with the whole process.

I guess I can be afford to be magnanimous, as London‘s leading psychic* assured me that my Massdrop perfect knife would be on the way pronto - my destiny was set with the Xerxes misfortune, but fate cannot be denied (she said amongst cackles)

I’ve taken that to mean that some sort of Final Destination thing may well happen here, that the time line of fate will brutally correct in my favour. I am eighth on the waitlist after all, which may just be doable - the people on here do tend to have a lot of sharp hazards at home, so the Grim Reaper is unlikely to have to be too inventive on this mission.

Still, in the very unlikely event that the hand of fate is denied here, I can always console myself with the knowledge that I wouldn’t have been truly satisfied until I tried a Kamon S-Grind anyhow
😉


*Mad Brenda from the pub
 
So Massdrop reveal day was a sad one. My little one got sick (now much better and running around like her usual crazy person self), my HVAC system died (goodbye $11,000.00) with 104-105° temps in the forecast, and... I ended up way down the list for the knife I want more than any other... a 260mm Kamon denty finish gyuto. So when faced with such circumstances, what is a knife addict to do? Be thankful I wasn't on the hook for a knife with a big expense looming? Nah... I went the self-medicating route! Actually, this was partially customs that came at the right time, but I have to say, this Markin wx-15 (52100 equivalent) came out amazing. If you haven't check out his work, do it, it's well worth the wait and amazing in its own right.

For those of you who won the lottery, enjoy! Kamon's work is nothing short of amazing. I'll probably begin anew my search for a denty gyuto come next payday. 😁
 

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Very good question @Knivperson. The answer is yes, they'll have the tempering colors at the tang in front of the handle.

I totally forgot to mention that as I by default I leave those tempering colors on the knife. Just if I get asked for them to be removed for a custom or a knife I feel they don't look as good, I polish them off. That's probably why I didn't mention them in the first place. Thanks for reminding me.
 
I really like the colors at the tang from tempering, but I’m hoping someone can explain it to me? Like why they’re only in that particular area? I had assumed they were discoloration from welding the tang, but now I’m wondering about it since Kamon says it’s from tempering.
 
I really like the colors at the tang from tempering, but I’m hoping someone can explain it to me? Like why they’re only in that particular area? I had assumed they were discoloration from welding the tang, but now I’m wondering about it since Kamon says it’s from tempering.

I believe the tang is tempered to reduce the hardness and tension of the steel there at the juncture with the handle. No advantage to hardened steel that I can think of at this part of the knife.
 
I really like the colors at the tang from tempering, but I’m hoping someone can explain it to me? Like why they’re only in that particular area? I had assumed they were discoloration from welding the tang, but now I’m wondering about it since Kamon says it’s from tempering.


@xsmx13 is pretty much right about that. To make sure I get the most toughness and least hardness out of that part, I just temper the tang very high with a gas torch in a separate operation after heat treatment. That way I can assure that the tang would bend instead of break in case of abuse. Additionally I don't quench the tang region during hardening but the 1.2519 will still harden to a certain amount on air due to its high alloying contents of chrome.
I've never had any problems with a bent or broken tang yet, but still you never know and in case that ever happens for whatever reason a bend is safer than a break.

As for the colors, that's just like all tempering colors, some kind of oxidation. The higher the temperature, the thicker the oxide layer becomes and therefore changes color in relation to the heat that was applied. Therefore you can estimate the temperature a certain material was tempered if you know what material it is. Essentially the same happens to stainless steel at way higher temperatures or titanium for example when it is heat anodized.
Here you can see a handle made from timascus. That's pattern welded titanium consisting of three different titanium alloys that oxidize differently at a certain temperature due to its different alloying contents - therefore the different colors of the layers.

Regarding my knives I just decided to leave the colors on the material by default, but even if you not see them as I polished them off, the tang is always tempered. And I think some knives really look better without the colors. For the mass drop knives I prefer colors as the knife would get to be too black and white otherwise. But here is an example of two knives I wouldn't like the colors as much.
 
@xsmx13 is pretty much right about that. To make sure I get the most toughness and least hardness out of that part, I just temper the tang very high with a gas torch in a separate operation after heat treatment. That way I can assure that the tang would bend instead of break in case of abuse. Additionally I don't quench the tang region during hardening but the 1.2519 will still harden to a certain amount on air due to its high alloying contents of chrome.
I've never had any problems with a bent or broken tang yet, but still you never know and in case that ever happens for whatever reason a bend is safer than a break.

As for the colors, that's just like all tempering colors, some kind of oxidation. The higher the temperature, the thicker the oxide layer becomes and therefore changes color in relation to the heat that was applied. Therefore you can estimate the temperature a certain material was tempered if you know what material it is. Essentially the same happens to stainless steel at way higher temperatures or titanium for example when it is heat anodized.
Here you can see a handle made from timascus. That's pattern welded titanium consisting of three different titanium alloys that oxidize differently at a certain temperature due to its different alloying contents - therefore the different colors of the layers.

Regarding my knives I just decided to leave the colors on the material by default, but even if you not see them as I polished them off, the tang is always tempered. And I think some knives really look better without the colors. For the mass drop knives I prefer colors as the knife would get to be too black and white otherwise. But here is an example of two knives I wouldn't like the colors as much.


Thank you so much for the explanation! I love the thought that custom makers like yourself put into your work. Learning about all these little details is why I love this hobby.
 
Thanks @Delat. And truly I love talking about it :).
I have a website for the basic Infos and look to make at least some posts on my social media informative too but of course often times what is basic to me just passes me as beeing interesting to someone else. Also probably there is way too much info in general to cover on social media or probably even a website.

So I appreciate your question and can only encourage others to ask too if they are unclear about anything as I think one can never know enough about a topic that interests them.

As a general rule I try to talk as much technical stuff about my work as possible. Even though I don't expect everyone to understand what goes into my knives I think the appreciation for the product overall just raises once people recognize how much thought and work I put into it. So I'm very aware of the importance of communicating all that, yet sometimes I need to be pushed in the right direction so thx again ;).
 
@KAMON Knives I'm all excited now, once again, which makes me wonder.

1. What does "rokkaku hanmaru" mean? Never heard this before.

2. What do you think make 1.2519 steel a good choice? People compared it to blue 2 earlier in this thread - how did you end up using this out of all the steels available for knife making? Curious to your thought process and considerations.

3. It's a monosteal - does that mean differentially hardened or "equally hardened" - if it's taken to that high a hardness as prescribed and equally hardened, what does that mean with regard to brittleness/fragileness?
:)
 
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@KAMON Knives I'm all excited now, once again, which makes me wonder.

1. What does "rokkaku hanmaru" mean? Never heard this before.

2. What do you think make 1.2519 steel a good choice? People compared it to blue 2 earlier in this thread - how did you end up using this out of all the steels available for knife making? Curious to your thought process and considerations.

3. It's a monosteal - does that mean differentially hardened or "equally hardened" - if it's taken to that high a hardness as prescribed and equally hardened, what does that mean with regard to brittleness/fragileness?
:)

Monosteel doesn’t bent easily, if you try to bent a Monosteel blade, it will bounce back, if you try to bent sanmai blade, it will stay bent.
 
@KAMON Knives I'm all excited now, once again, which makes me wonder.

1. What does "rokkaku hanmaru" mean? Never heard this before.

2. What do you think make 1.2519 steel a good choice? People compared it to blue 2 earlier in this thread - how did you end up using this out of all the steels available for knife making? Curious to your thought process and considerations.

3. It's a monosteal - does that mean differentially hardened or "equally hardened" - if it's taken to that high a hardness as prescribed and equally hardened, what does that mean with regard to brittleness/fragileness?
:)

1. To my knowledge rokkaku hanmaru means something like squared top, rounded bottom. That shape refers to the cross section of the handle as the upper part of the handle has 5 faceted surfaces and the bottom part has a round or oval shape.
I'm by far no Japanese expert so that's only what I've learned from several knife related sources and translated it from its German description to English. I'm no English expert either so that could be a bad mix xD.
@drsmp isn't necessarily wrong either as you get the idea from his description, although octagonal means 8 surfaces which a rokkaku hanmaru handles doesn't really have. But I could be very nitpicky right now and also I have no clue if the English translation isn't really exactly what he said ;p.

2. First of all availability plays a huge role. There are steels out there that would potentially be very interesting to the audience here, yet barely anybody here ever heard of them. The reasons for that can be several. For example it could be that they aren't produced anymore, or were ever just product as a small prototype batch and never produced again, or are just not or hardly available in the given market (like some Russian or Japanese steels).
1.2519 at the time was available to me.
The reason for why it was interesting to me in the first place is due to its alloying contents. The analysis of my batch of 1.2519 says it has got C 1.10%, W 1,25%, Cr 1,19%, Mn 0,27%, Si 0,20%, V 0,19%. The biggest advantage opposed to the Japanese aogami is in my opinion that 1.2519 is an oil hardening tool steel instead of water like aogami is. So you can reach full hardness with reasonable slow quenching methods not risking too many fails, yet using full potential of the steel without having to quench in water.
With P 0,012% and S 0,004% it's also reasonably clean which is important for its properties too.
Then of course there are the other reasons like the fine and hard carbides tungsten forms and the advantages tungsten brings in the heat treatment like keeping the grain structure small. Chrome also makes for some carbides and is the main reason in this alloy combo for the steel to be a oil hardening steel.
All those factors make up for me beeing able to harden this steel to ~65hrc tempered for good wear resistance, yet not risking it to be brittle (which many of my customers confirmed).

3. Good question. Since I don't quench the tang and about 1cm of the tang before/outside the handle, technically speaking it's differentially hardened. The whole cutting section of the blade, with the exception of a little spot at the tang is equally hardened though.
What that means @Jason183 described very good. The blade will be flexible to some extent, but it won't plastically deform.
What I like about the mono steels aspect is that corrosion isn't that big of a problem as it is with mild steel or wrought iron. Some customers even asked me if I accidentally used stainless steel for their knives. But of course a patina will Form on them and all the other precautions necessary for carbon steel in general, are necessary for my knives too.
Long story short - you as a customer won't have any disadvantages from the fact that my knives are mono steel. If anything, in my very opinion, it only has advantages. If you don't perform an ABS 90° bend test with my blade, you won't ever be able to break it in half or anything like that.
But let me state clear that this shouldn't be a diss to a San Mai construction. I know many knife makers that use the San Mai process to reach some quality benefits of their own which they wouldn't be able to produce in mono steel. Want to state very clear that I always just talk about my knives with my methods and processes.

Don’t you mean “let the (squid) games begin”?
With the survivor getting all 40 knives 🙃🙃🙃

I mean... We can do that but know that I'm going into this with 40 knives. What've you got? 🐒
 

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