Mirepoix Musings: an inebriated, half-assed knife competition

[SwampDonkey]

Late last night I got home and wanted to play with my new knives and do a little compare/contrast with the Yoshikane vs my other 240s, particularly the Kochi/Wakui. I poured another beer and touched up all the contenders on a coticule before the contest started, then went to town on some mirepoix/trinity prep for an upcoming crawfish pie. I don't have many measurements, but I figured this post will be helpful for future searchers...or maybe make things worse, in which case the more eloquent folks on the forum will set them straight.

The contenders:
Yoshikane SKD
Kochi V2
Munetoshi shirogami #2
Unshu Yukimitsu shirogami #1
Kyohei Shindo aogami #2

Yoshi:

Kochi:

Munetoshi:

Unshu Yukimitsu:

Shindo:

Initial handling thoughts:
The Kochi (240x52) is definitely my most comfortable knife. The blade height, rounded everything, perfect finger/knuckle room for a pinch grip, top tier handle, distinct kurouchi...everything just clicks. Balance point about 60 mm forward of ferrule top.

When I picked up the Munetoshi (245x52) I finally figured out why I always reach for it over the objectively nicer/more comfortable Kochi. It has a solid heft to it that I really enjoy and clicks with something in my brain. I don't have a drug kitchen scale so weight is unkown, but it's the heaviest of my 240s. Balance point ~50-55 mm from top of ferrule.

Yoshikane (240x49) not quite as refined f&f as the Kochi but close. Pleasantly surprised with heel height but it shrinks down to 45 mm very quickly. It certainly has a flat spot but isn't quite as hard a stop as some others have mentioned. Maybe Yoshi has started to soften it a tad?

Unshu Yukimitsu (230x51) lightest, thinnest, and liveliest of the bunch. Ebony handle puts the balance right at my pinch and it feels super nimble.

Big carrots fine dice:
Yoshi and Wakui were extremely close, but slight edge goes to Yoshi on noiseless cutting at the expense of food release. Both very pleasant.

Unshu Yukimitsu had the best initial bite but suffers from a touch of stiction. Technique matters more here, sometimes it would go through silently and cleaner than peers, but other times it'd want to get suctioned in. Less forgiving than Yoshi but slightly higher ceiling I'd say. Superior tip for draw cuts. I suspect the relative lack of shoulders and convexity contribute to that suction tendency.

Munetoshi...the big girl certainly changed things up. Not as lasery and quiet as the previous 3 but by far the best food release and the weight did all the work whereas I had to actively push/guide the light Unshu Yukimitsu.

Shindo: a nice blend of everything, was mostly used as a control; I focused more on the bigger knives.

Winner: Yoshikane

Green pepper:

All knives did very well here; the fresh coti edge really let everything drop through the pepper skin. Once again the Yoshi and Kochi were neck and neck, but the ergonomics and blade height of the Kochi pulled ahead here. I noticed the poor food release of the Yoshi and shorter blade height let pepper strips crawl up the side as I was working my through and they didn't want to fall off. Mildly annoying, less of an issue on Kochi.

Unshu Yukimitsu was supreme here, effortlessly fell through the pepper, adequate food release, tall height for most of the knife let's food fall off before it gets on my nerves.

I only had 1 pepper so didn't get much use with the Munetoshi or Shindo, though the Shindo was extremely competitive in bite department.

Winner: Unshu Yukimitsu

Yellow onyo:

By this point I was starting to really focus on the differences between Yoshi and Kochi. They performed very similarly in all previous tests and here they both cleaved a large onyo in half beautifully. Extremely smooth and genuinely pleasant to use, made me wish I had more onions to dice. The Yoshi pulled slightly ahead here; horizontal cuts were buttery smooth.

Unshu Yukimitsu is once again in its element with soft stuff. The wicked thin tip and general thin profile of the blade let it slide through the onion without any disturbance. I felt a bit of stiction on the horizontal cuts but on the following vertical cuts the onion sat in place "like a naughty school boy" whereas the thicker-spined 240s tended to push a bit on vertical cuts.

Winner: Unshu Yukimitsu with a very close second by Yoshi and Kochi a hair behind in 3rd.

Overall every one of these knives kick ass. I find it particularly interesting that the Yoshi slightly out-cut the Kochi in most cases, yet I'd likely pick the Kochi to keep between the two since it is so perfectly comfortable in-hand. I also prefer the Kochi profile. I've been having fun with curvy knives lately but was pleasantly surprised at how comfortable the flat spot of the Yoshi felt. The Munetoshi has done this exact meal many a time, so I didn't use it as much towards the end as it is a known quantity and the others took more attention. The Shindo happily kept pace with all contenders and continues to be an absurd value for cutting ability.

 

[cjmeik]

I expected this to be far more… bloody.

Thanks for taking the time to write this down. I’ve always been intrigued by the Yoshi, just haven’t been able to get past the height. Glad to see it’s working well for you!

 

[SwampDonkey]

I expected this to be far more… bloody.

Thanks for taking the time to write this down. I’ve always been intrigued by the Yoshi, just haven’t been able to get past the height. Glad to see it’s working well for you!

Yeah the height was my biggest hesitation with it as well, and it's still a little awkward since I prefer/buy taller knives but am thinking I'll adapt soon enough.

I wish I had kept my Masashi around to really get the spawn of Yoshikane competition going

 

[blokey]

Thanks for the great write up! I have owned 3 of the knives except Munetoshi but not in the same time, all great knives.

 

[SwampDonkey]

Addendum:

I did some testing on a new batch to bring a few others to play vs the Yoshikane

The Makoto Ryusei 240:

To my surprise, the Ryusei bisected jumbo carrots with less wedging than the Yoshi.

I freshly sharpened the Munetoshi (hadn't on the round before) on a coti and hot damn it gets screaming. It really is a great knife...totally different cutting feel than the yoshi and not as buttery going through onions but it does it with a confidence that I find subconsciously reassuring. Oddly enough my new Munetoshi nakiri has a thicker convex grind than the 240 gyuto. I would've assumed it'd be a little higher and thinner. I haven't sharpened that yet but it was very pleasant on shallots, no stiction issues whatsoever, and it gave some minor audible cracking on carrots but I didn't feel a hint of it. Superior food release characteristics made it pleasant for sticky celery too.

Munetoshi nakiri:

I sharpened the Wat Pro nakiri on a BBW and am very pleased with the toothy edge it took. The term "cuts angry" came to mind as it went to work on the pepper skin. I thoroughly enjoyed the height when it came time for the onions, I like my knives to be as tall or taller than an onion half. I might finish on the coti tomorrow and see how that edge compares on the same blade as I'm quite curious between the two. On the sharpening note, I do wish it was carbon clad.

 

[SwampDonkey]

Adddendum: the yoshi is NOT good for dense sweet potatoes. Very surprised by this. It just got...stuck, then kinda cracked it open when I pulled it out to restart the cut with more slice. Repeatable. Kochi all day here.

 

[Carbonara]

This kind of makes want to get yoshi just to try it out

 

[SwampDonkey]

Addddendum:

Did a full progression on Yoshi (used factory zero edge for initial tests) Chosera 800, SG 1k, Chosera 3k, BBW, leather strop. The SKD is nice to sharpen, particularly compared to the SG2 knife I did right before it.

It's an elite tomato knife, the BBW finish is tooooothy on this lass.

 

[superworrier]

Adddendum: the yoshi is NOT good for dense sweet potatoes. Very surprised by this. It just got...stuck, then kinda cracked it open when I pulled it out to restart the cut with more slice. Repeatable. Kochi all day here.

As thin BTE it is, I think the spine is kinda thick for this.

 

[SwampDonkey]

As thin BTE it is, I think the spine is kinda thick for this.

Most of my knives are all in this vein though; thick spine-skinny edge. It's my kink. I did a squash bustin championship a while ago and oddly enough the S. Tanaka ginsan was my favorite, which has a similar spine width towards the front of blade as the Yoshi. Kochi also did very well in squash bustin, but the thinness made me subconsciously baby more.

 

[samjj234]

looks like fun... following your review I ordered a custom Unshu Yukimitsu in 240.

 

[SwampDonkey]

Decided to just make this my review dump thread since it's already mostly that anyway. I'm too moody to do a tier list. Tastes change, cooking styles and vegetables/ingredients alternate with the season. But I will drop vibes and cutting videos. I think it may be more beneficial here anyway since my cutting motion/technique is decidedly unprofessional but at least it's consistent across knives.

Not sure how these imgur inserts show across platforms/OS but they all have sound, most are multipart videos since I can only upload 60 second chunks. The phone-in-glass trick to film amplifies sound...I swear I don't have COPD or asthma.

First up, Kyohei Shindo Tall Nakiri aogami #2. Small batch order from Tokushu. 172x75. It's a curvier profile rectangle than I'm used to, but it cuts like a demon. Been saving it for ARM so haven't used a whole lot but am very impressed from initial testing.

 

[SwampDonkey]

Next we have my Okubo custom gyuto. 256x57, 242 g. The handle is only 18 g so it'd be heavier if I wanted to move the balance point back, but I don't. I like it very aggressive. This, like many of the following videos, is my first cuts with it so I'm learning the knife in real time. Often things are smoother by the second half of the onion or whatever product. I asked for a flatter heel when ordering. The convex on this is really nice, it looks so thick from a choil shot but just moves through product like a snow plow or ships bow just kinda pushing stuff out of the way without resistance. I don't have video but it outcut a much thinner ground Spåre.

 

[SwampDonkey]

Here is the Okubo 180x63 234 g nakiri and a Watanabe Pro 176x60 200 g nakiri. Again, the Okubo moves the product better than it has any right to. I don't have a video but it was preferable to the Wat on carrots and sweet potato, better food release both through the cut and after with less carrot sticks or potato cubes sticking to the blade face. The Wat is thinner BTE and feels a little more lasery/bitey on the very initial cut but after ~2 mm up the blade I think I prefer the Okubo. They're fairly equal on softer stuff like onions or shallots. It was dead silent on this carrot.

 

[M1k3]

Decided to just make this my review dump thread since it's already mostly that anyway. I'm too moody to do a tier list. Tastes change, cooking styles and vegetables/ingredients alternate with the season. But I will drop vibes and cutting videos. I think it may be more beneficial here anyway since my cutting motion/technique is decidedly unprofessional but at least it's consistent across knives.

Not sure how these imgur inserts show across platforms/OS but they all have sound, most are multipart videos since I can only upload 60 second chunks. The phone-in-glass trick to film amplifies sound...I swear I don't have COPD or asthma.

First up, Kyohei Shindo Tall Nakiri aogami #2. Small batch order from Tokushu. 172x75. It's a curvier profile rectangle than I'm used to, but it cuts like a demon. Been saving it for ARM so haven't used a whole lot but am very impressed from initial testing.

Stuff a paper towel into the bottom of the cup.

 

[SwampDonkey]

Next we have my recent @eddworks custom gyuto. I've sprinkled pics and comments around the forum but consolidating everything here. 253x60 mm, 257 g. 5 mm AEB-L stock at 62 HRC and convex grind. I wanted a knife that I could do everything on a big holiday type meal prep without ever setting it down. Big thick spine for comfort, tall heel with a large ~flat spot, strong distal taper, aggressive balance, and a super thin tip to make onions and delicate shallot/garlic work a breeze. I cut a lot of dense root vegetables in the winter so asked for a paradoxical worklaser. Something with beef and sturdiness that was also thin behind the edge to cleanly cut butternut and sweet potatoes. Eddie patiently took in all my ramblings, flip flopping design ideas, constant questions, and crafted an absolute banger in his own style. I also sent a koa block that he made a gorgeous and comfortable western handle from. It is my most well-rounded knife, and exceeded all expectations. The hype after his pass-around is not just forum hype. It sails cleanly through soft and hard product alike, the heel is sturdy while still thin enough to not make me want to use the rear of the knife. I asked for the back end to feel like a nakiri and he nailed it. The AEB-L is easy to sharpen, takes a gorgeous edge on a BBW and keeps its tooth for peppers and tomatoes. The distal taper is absurd.

 

[Qapla']

Mirepoix Musings: an inebriated, half-assed knife competition

I recommend doing the knife usage first and the inebriation afterward.

 

[SwampDonkey]

Dropping these here too. Fall 2022 Munetoshi from RSK. 2023 Mazaki KU. Both should have relatively fresh coticule edges. I forgot how damn good the Munetoshi was.

Mazaki vs Munetoshi 240 gold potatoes



Munetoshi vs Mazaki red onion

 

[Homruh]

Adddendum: the yoshi is NOT good for dense sweet potatoes. Very surprised by this. It just got...stuck, then kinda cracked it open when I pulled it out to restart the cut with more slice. Repeatable. Kochi all day here.

Hey there!
I own a yoshi and I love it. But yeah I also feel like it’s struggling with sweet potato (only length wise, when cutting into smaller rings I feel like it performs awesome!)
Now because I eat a lot of sweet potato I’d love to get a recommendation from you for a knife that will cut them well.
Also would love to know your thoughts about the wat pro nakiri!
Thanks for the useful information

 

[SwampDonkey]

Hey there!
I own a yoshi and I love it. But yeah I also feel like it’s struggling with sweet potato (only length wise, when cutting into smaller rings I feel like it performs awesome!)
Now because I eat a lot of sweet potato I’d love to get a recommendation from you for a knife that will cut them well.
Also would love to know your thoughts about the wat pro nakiri!
Thanks for the useful information

For sweet potatoes: Shigeki Tanaka 240, anything from Kyohei Shindo, Kochi gyuto (thinner grind than the nakiri), Eddworks, Okubo are all my preferred. You'll have trouble finding a 240 Shindo but you can grab a 210 or nakiri and it will cut similarly.






I think the videos further up-thread compare it pretty well. There's been tons of ink spilled upon it elsewhere in the forum but for me the Wat Pro is a great knife and is rightfully highly recommended when people ask for a nakiri. The grind is more robust than a Shindo but it's still thin BTE and can do everything you ask of it. The 60 mm height is fantastic compared to other normal nakiri, it sent me down a whole rabbit hole of tall nakiri/nakleavers.

Good food release, easy to maintain SS clad, great steel and some of the better aogami 2 edge retention you'll find. Fit and finish is a little below what I expect from a ~$330 knife but rounding choil or spine isn't hard.

I just like the Okubo nakiri better for some reason so I don't use my Wat all that much these days but whenever I pick it up I'm happy.

 

[SwampDonkey]

While I'm here, gonna drop some more cut vids in to the general Swamp Review series:

 

[aporigine]

I recommend doing the knife usage first and the inebriation afterward.

I have found that for me, alcohol and sharpening do not mix well. I tend to leave a knife blunter than it went in, wasting steel and making for a bigger job once the hangover lifts.

 

[VincenteFox]

I just found and am really enjoying this thread.

 

[plantgainz]

I just found and am really enjoying this thread.

@SwampDonkey videos are gold

 

[SwampDonkey]

I have found that for me, alcohol and sharpening do not mix well. I tend to leave a knife blunter than it went in, wasting steel and making for a bigger job once the hangover lifts.

I like about 2 glasses of wine and an audio book to reach my sharpening zen. I tend to treat it like a later night therapeutic wind-down than a daytime chore.


Until The Lady comes out to beg me to stop making screechy 320 grit noises at 1 am and I have to hit stealth mode on the coticules

 

[M1k3]

Hey there!
I own a yoshi and I love it. But yeah I also feel like it’s struggling with sweet potato (only length wise, when cutting into smaller rings I feel like it performs awesome!)
Now because I eat a lot of sweet potato I’d love to get a recommendation from you for a knife that will cut them well.
Also would love to know your thoughts about the wat pro nakiri!
Thanks for the useful information

Munetoshi.

 

[aporigine]

I like about 2 glasses of wine and an audio book to reach my sharpening zen. I tend to treat it like a later night therapeutic wind-down than a daytime chore.


Until The Lady comes out to beg me to stop making screechy 320 grit noises at 1 am and I have to hit stealth mode on the coticules

Have you watched Rumpole of the Bailey? “She-who-must-be-obeyed.”

I used that one a time or two while married.
Fortunately, Imperious She had a solid sense of humor.

 

[Absolute Buffoon]

I like about 2 glasses of wine and an audio book to reach my sharpening zen. I tend to treat it like a later night therapeutic wind-down than a daytime chore.


Until The Lady comes out to beg me to stop making screechy 320 grit noises at 1 am and I have to hit stealth mode on the coticules

Swampdonkey's lady, probably: "Who sharpens knives at 3 AM in the morning?"

Swampdonkey:

 

[SwampDonkey]

Hurricane got my flight canceled so I decided to do a lil sweet testing after @Homruh got me thinking about it. Wat Pro coming in with a nice showing! Direct opposite of the gold potato test against the Okubo nakiri.

 

[Homruh]

Hurricane got my flight canceled so I decided to do a lil sweet testing after @Homruh got me thinking about it. Wat Pro coming in with a nice showing! Direct opposite of the gold potato test against the Okubo nakiri.

I honestly love these videos!

also I'd like some more advice if you dont mind.
my cousing is looking for a SG2 k tip Gyuto, a pretty good all-arounder, not a paper thin blade like a Shibata for example
Edit: his budget is pretty insane coming in at $600. Also, his wife's dad is going to be in Tokyo next week and he can carry it with him if that helps any how.