Misono UX10 edge retention

[botlofchaz]

Hey all,
I've had a Misono UX10 for 10+ years and after the past couple of sharpenings, I have been experiencing what feels like a fall off in edge retention. Nothing has dramatically changed in the way that I use it-- same boards, cutting the same types of things, etc. I've always taken my knifes to be sharpened by the same business that I trust, and they've done a good job on other knifes. I've never paid for hand sharpening, as I havent felt like it is worth the cost ($20+) for a knife like this.

Does anyone have any insight into why this might be happening or has experienced similar issues? After over 10 years of use and sharpening, it's been ground down quite a bit, so wondering if that has anything to do with it.

Thanks for entertaining/answering a newbies question.

 

[M1k3]

Sounds like it could use some thinning.

What's the lowest grit stone you've started sharpening it with?

 

[MowgFace]

Hey all,
I've had a Misono UX10 for 10+ years and after the past couple of sharpenings, I have been experiencing what feels like a fall off in edge retention. Nothing has dramatically changed in the way that I use it-- same boards, cutting the same types of things, etc. I've always taken my knifes to be sharpened by the same business that I trust, and they've done a good job on other knifes. I've never paid for hand sharpening, as I havent felt like it is worth the cost ($20+) for a knife like this.

Does anyone have any insight into why this might be happening or has experienced similar issues? After over 10 years of use and sharpening, it's been ground down quite a bit, so wondering if that has anything to do with it.

Thanks for entertaining/answering a newbies question.

I would argue it is 100% worth getting hand sharpening depending who your trusted business is. Misono UX10 is a high quality knife, so if this is not worth it to you, then I dont know what is.

 

[deltaplex]

I stole this from another thread, but it's a pretty clear expectation of what's happening from what you've described:

It's less likely that the steel is no longer able to hold an edge, it's that the knife is a lot thicker than it used to be, and it's performing worse because of it.

 

[ian]

Fyi, you may experience the thickness as a loss of edge retention. Namely, while the knife is super sharp, it’ll still cut well, but once it dulls a bit, you can no longer rely on the thinness to get through your product.

 

[botlofchaz]

Thanks everyone for the replies. I've taken a look at the knife to evaluate thinness behind the edge and honestly just dont know enough about knife geometry to judge whether this is the issue. But I will bring it up next time I take it in to be sharpened and see what the shop says. Thanks again for the help!

 

[Delat]

If it’s been sharpened on a belt for the past 10+ years and is noticeably shorter, then it definitely needs thinning. Basically it’s technically just as sharp as before, but the cutting profile has become more of an axe shape than a razor shape.

A easy test is to cut something low, like asparagus. Compare that to something tall and dense like sweet potatoes or beets. If it feels sharp on the asparagus but gets stuck in the potatoes and beets, then the edge is sharp but behind the edge is too thick.

 

[Benuser]

There is a consensus about the blade having become too thick behind the edge. It makes force necessary to get it through hard food, and the resulting shock with the board will reduce the life span of the edge. Normal values for chef's knives are 0.2mm above the bevel, 0.5mm at 5mm upward and 1mm at 10mm from the edge.
I don't know how your sharpener sharpens, but thinning behind the edge is essential to maintain the previous geometry as you're moving it to a slightly thicker part of the blade.
You may have a look at the bevel. If sharpened correctly, it's almost invisible. The blade's right face and the bevel should form a continuous arc. The Misonos are strongly right‐biased, optimised for right-handers, have the edge off-centered to the left. I hope your sharpener has respected its geometry. Here an idea of how such a knife should be sharpened IMHO. It's a very thick knife, a Misono yo-deba, showing very clearly the asymmetry of a common Japanese knife.

As the Misono UX-10 is a valuable knife, it's well worth to have its geometry restored by someone who knows what he is doing.

 

[botlofchaz]

There is a consensus about the blade having become too thick behind the edge. It makes force necessary to get it through hard food, and the resulting shock with the board will reduce the life span of the edge. Normal values for chef's knives are 0.2mm above the bevel, 0.5mm at 5mm upward and 1mm at 10mm from the edge.
I don't know how your sharpener sharpens, but thinning behind the edge is essential to maintain the previous geometry as you're moving it to a slightly thicker part of the blade.
You may have a look at the bevel. If sharpened correctly, it's almost invisible. The blade's right face and the bevel should form a continuous arc. The Misonos are strongly right‐biased, optimised for right-handers, have the edge off-centered to the left. I hope your sharpener has respected its geometry. Here an idea of how such a knife should be sharpened IMHO. It's a very thick knife, a Misono yo-deba, showing very clearly the asymmetry of a common Japanese knife.View attachment 195773
As the Misono UX-10 is a valuable knife, it's well worth to have its geometry restored by someone who knows what he is doing.

Thanks @Benuser, this is helpful. I don't think bevel geometry is an issue here. I think these sharpeners have seen enough 80/20 UX10s to maintain bevel in this way, and nothing looks off in that regard. I will bring up thinning issue next time i bring it in and will request hand sharpening if needed.

 

[Ben.G.]

There is a consensus about the blade having become too thick behind the edge. It makes force necessary to get it through hard food, and the resulting shock with the board will reduce the life span of the edge. Normal values for chef's knives are 0.2mm above the bevel, 0.5mm at 5mm upward and 1mm at 10mm from the edge.
I don't know how your sharpener sharpens, but thinning behind the edge is essential to maintain the previous geometry as you're moving it to a slightly thicker part of the blade.
You may have a look at the bevel. If sharpened correctly, it's almost invisible. The blade's right face and the bevel should form a continuous arc. The Misonos are strongly right‐biased, optimised for right-handers, have the edge off-centered to the left. I hope your sharpener has respected its geometry. Here an idea of how such a knife should be sharpened IMHO. It's a very thick knife, a Misono yo-deba, showing very clearly the asymmetry of a common Japanese knife.View attachment 195773
As the Misono UX-10 is a valuable knife, it's well worth to have its geometry restored by someone who knows what he is doing.

I appreciate your insight. I am curious though; when you (and others) say thickness “above the bevel”, how far above the apex are you measuring exactly? 1mm, 2mm? You mention 5mm and 10mm, but you don’t specify where the first measurement is taken. I have always wondered this.

 

[Benuser]

I appreciate your insight. I am curious though; when you (and others) say thickness “above the bevel”, how far above the apex are you measuring exactly? 1mm, 2mm? You mention 5mm and 10mm, but you don’t specify where the first measurement is taken. I have always wondered this.

It's no exact rule, as far as I'm concerned. Just a rule of thumb that's easily memorised. On IMO poorly sharpened blades you will find a protruding shoulder, i.e. where bevel and face meet. I'd measure there. On a Wüsthof OOTB you will find a value above 0.3mm. From there on you already know there is serious work to be done.
On a correctly sharpened blades the bevel is very narrow. It hardly makes any difference whether you measure the 0.5mm point from the apex or above the bevel.
The most practical way to get an idea is setting your micrometer at 0.5 and 10mm and see where those values are being found.