My parents want to buy an australian Shepherd

[Brieuc]

My parents want an australian shepherd. They are 65. It will be their first dog. At the beginings i was against. But now I visited the owner i'm pro. The owner got two female. He garanteed us that they will be adorable and obediant dog. Do you think we will have any pb with them ? What's tour experience with australian shepherd ? How are they ? I got you two pictures. We have the choice with a red dominant a blue dominant and a black dominant. The black is crying too much my mother don't want him. But we can definitly chose between those two :

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

They're very good dogs, especially if there aren't small children around for them to herd. Not that they are mean to children, but their herding can sometimes lead to unintentional tripping.

But, like all herding dogs, they require exercise and activity. Herding dogs have very active minds and a lot of stamina and that can lead to bad behavior if not considered. A good sized yard is a big plus but will still require dedicated play time and walks. This will be especially important in the formative and highly active puppy years.

As the old saying goes, a tired dog is a good dog.

 

[LostHighway]

I've never owned Australian Shepherds but I've been around them extensively as well as most of the herding group breeds. I've owned Cardigan Corgis in the past and now have an Australian Cattle Dog mix.

Herding breeds tend to be intelligent, high energy dogs with a need to be kept occupied. Boredom often leads to destructive or neurotic behaviors. With the possible exceptions of Pembroke Corgis and maybe Shetland Sheepdogs I would not recommend any of the herding breeds as a first dog. If your parents can walk them at least once day, preferably twice a day, for half an hour or longer and are willing to enroll the dog in a good obedience school for at least two classes they might do alright but the first two or three years may be trying. Do they have a fenced yard? A four foot fence would be a minimum and they will eventually be able to jump that if motivated but herding dogs tend to respect fences more than something like a Husky for example.

If they're dead set on these puppies I'd personally go for the blue merle as I prefer that look.

 

[AT5760]

Aussies are very high energy dogs. They want to work, they are bred to work, and they will get frustrated if they are not given the opportunity to work or get significant exercise. If your parents are active people, and they are willing to do obedience classes with the puppy, then it could be a good fit. Are they retired? Will the dog be spending significant amounts of time at home alone? Do they have cats? Cats and herding breeds often don't mix that well.

In addition, a cute dog does not necessarily equal a healthy dog. While purebred dogs are often attractive, irresponsible breeding and excessive inbreeding has led to significant hereditary issues for many breeds. A good breeder isn't breeding bitches too frequently or too young. They are doing the appropriate health testing. I'm not too familiar with breed-specific issues with Aussies, but the American Kennel Club's website it a good first reference for research: https://www.akc.org/dog-breeds/australian-shepherd/. Ask lots of questions of the breeder and don't trust anyone who refuses to answer your questions.

Dogs are great! I love dogs and couldn't imagine life without one. But, they are a lot of work and your parents should make sure they are ready for that commitment.

FWIW, I like the red pup.

 

[Matt Jacobs]

like everyone else has said very high energy. If you parents have time to walk and train multiple times a day it will be a great dog. If not, they will be very frustrated as will the dog.

 

[Brieuc]

My parents are lucky they have a farm. My father is retired but he is not very energetic guy thats why i wasn't very sure of this choice. The breeding is great the guy is a connoisseur

 

[Sdo]

All dogs are good. Can't tell the same about all owners.

 

[Brieuc]

The red is not bad yeah. But i think the merle is better build. I think my mother also prefer it... but yeah hard to chose . They have a cat. A fourteen years old cat

 

[Brieuc]

I think at the end it will be my dog XD

 

[LostHighway]

A few words about prospective dog ownership:
1) If you're buying a dog from a reputable breeder as opposed getting a rescue* I would insist on a DNA test The genetic markers for a long list of heritable disorders have been identified and should be disclosed. They may or may not ask you to pay for the test. Embarkvet is the best of the currently available tests.
2) Most dogs require daily leashed walks and a fenced yard to be happy and secure although some more sedentary breeds can get by without the fenced yard. A tie out or an "invisible" fence plus shock collar are, IMO, not acceptable substitutes. Do not let your dog run free out of line of sight no matter how rural you are if you want your dog to live a long and healthy life (working dogs on the job are an exception).
3) Do sign your dog up for obedience classes. They are as much or more about training the owner rather than just training the dog.
4) I am not a fan of early spay/neuter. At least for male dogs, and for highly active or large breeds intact animals seem to develop better structure and tend to be less prone to skeletal or connective tissue disorders. I think you should wait at least a year to neuter and for some breeds up to two years. This tends to be less of an issue for small dogs (<40 pounds/18 kg when full grown) but I would still wait a minimum of six months.

*It should go without saying that you shouldn't buy a dog (or cat) from a pet shop or backyard breeder or puppy mill.

 

[Brieuc]

A few words about prospective dog ownership:
1) If you're buying a dog from a reputable breeder as opposed getting a rescue* I would insist on a DNA test The genetic markers for a long list of heritable disorders have been identified and should be disclosed. They may or may not ask you to pay for the test. Embarkvet is the best of the currently available tests.
2) Most dogs require daily leashed walks and a fenced yard to be happy and secure although some more sedentary breeds can get by without the fenced yard. A tie out or an "invisible" fence plus shock collar are, IMO, not acceptable substitutes. Do not let your dog run free out of line of sight no matter how rural you are if you want your dog to live a long and healthy life (working dogs on the job are an exception).
3) Do sign your dog up for obedience classes. They are as much or more about training the owner rather than just training the dog.
4) I am not a fan of early spay/neuter. At least for male dogs, and for highly active or large breeds intact animals seem to develop better structure and tend to be less prone to skeletal or connective tissue disorders. I think you should wait at least a year to neuter and for some breeds up to two years. This tends to be less of an issue for small dogs (<40 pounds/18 kg when full grown) but I would still wait a minimum of six months.

*It should go without saying that you shouldn't buy a dog (or cat) from a pet shop or backyard breeder or puppy mill.

We are not going to neuter this dog. The breeder chose a worldclass male for his female. I have the genetics now

So they chose the merle male. Now they have to chose a name. In france this year S is for the male...

 

[Bico Doce]

We are not going to neuter this dog. The breeder chose a worldclass male for his female. I have the genetics now

Neutering/spaying the dog can be better for the dog and owner. Unless you have plans to breed, which seems like a big leap given what I presume as you having limited experience with dogs, it’s usually better for all if the dog is neutered. They become less territorial and less frustrated, you can avoid habits such as a dog marking.

it seems like you are pretty committed to this decision, the only thing I would mention is that having a dog, at least one you treat well, is like having a child. They need constant care - training, exercise, mental stimulation. And this will be necessary day after day for 10+ years. Getting a high energy dog that was bred for a job is a tall order for even experienced dog owners. A frustrated dog can make your life miserable. When they are puppies it’s hard to envision how much work they will require of you and it is easy to get caught up in the moment and fail to give your own abilities an honest appraisal. With all of that said, I wish you the very best with your new dog

 

[Jovidah]

Never knew Australian shepherds existed. Are they used to herd crocodiles?

 

[MrHiggins]

Congratulations on the new dog! My avitar is a photo of my (now dead) Australian Shepherd, Higgins. He was a super good dog. I'm now raising a border collie who is also turning out great, but it's a lot of work. I like the herding breeds.

I see your parents already selected the blue Merle. I couldn't tell from the photos, but it kind of looked like the merle's ears were white? If so, take the dog in for a hearing test. If the inner ear is white, that can be a problem for deafness.

The only thing I'd add to what others have said is with regards to intelligent dogs and keeping them active and busy. That is: physical exercise is NOT enough. You need to challenge their brains, too. For example, my new dog loves to play frisbee. Rather than just throw, catch, retrieve, I mix it up by throwing it and having him stop half way, return to me, make eye contact, and then go get it. That's just one example, there are countless more. The added mental challenge keeps him sane. Don't underestimate it.

Anyway, it sounds like the new dog is going to a great home. Good luck and have fun!!

PS: I highly recommend two "training" tools. The first is Karen Overall's "Relaxation Protocol" which is a series of exercises that teach the dog how to be calm. Google it. Remember, dogs can learn how to be hyper or well-mannered, it's all about teaching them what's expected and giving them the tools to achieve good results.

The second training tool is stupidly called Puppy Politeness Poker. Again, Google it. The point of it is that the dog needs to focus its attention on you before it gets something it wants. For example, the dog wants to go outside. Make it do something for you (like sit, spin around, or make eye contact) before you open the door. Mix it up so the dog can't anticipate what you're going to ask of it. This trains them that when they want something (go out, throw ball, get treat, etc...) they get the reward by listening to you. This makes a very deep bond between you and the dog, which is what you're going for.

 

[Definegood]

We are not going to neuter this dog. The breeder chose a worldclass male for his female. I have the genetics now

View attachment 153507

So they chose the merle male. Now they have to chose a name. In france this year S is for the male...

As has been said before neutering early has negative health consequences for large dogs. You could also consider vasectomy for the dog unless you plan include breeding. Which brings up a whole host of other issues.

 

[drsmp]

I’m a veterinarian and have a herding dog - Australian cattle dog. He’s my second. Very smart dog but he has to work, work, work or he’s a trouble
maker. He also will herd people - not me but anyone in my home. In public very sweet and gentle - “stranger” ( that includes my regular stay over HF and kids) in my home and he’s herding them. Has almost knocked over multiple guests - not mean but nose punt in the back of the knee or body checks. The farm may offer enough exercise and diversion to keep an AS worn out. But if your parents are at all frail , not up to walking, throwing balls/frisbees etc every day /multiple times an AS
isnt a great choice. The first 4-5 years these guys are nonstop energy. Please keep in mind that breeders are to a degree salesman and tell you want you want to hear.

 

[MrHiggins]

I’m a veterinarian and have a herding dog - Australian cattle dog. He’s my second. Very smart dog but he has to work, work, work or he’s a trouble
maker. He also will herd people - not me but anyone in my home. In public very sweet and gentle - “stranger” ( that includes my regular stay over HF and kids) in my home and he’s herding them. Has almost knocked over multiple guests - not mean but nose punt in the back of the knee or body checks. The farm may offer enough exercise and diversion to keep an AS worn out. But if your parents are at all frail , not up to walking, throwing balls/frisbees etc every day /multiple times an AS
isnt a great choice. The first 4-5 years these guys are nonstop energy. Please keep in mind that breeders are to a degree salesman and tell you want you want to hear.

Awesome to have a vetrenarian chime in!

I agree that a young dog is filled with energy. I strongly believe that you can teach even the most energetic breed to be calm and well behaved, but that it takes a lot of work.

In my post above, I edited it to add a post script that gives some guidance on how to begin to raise a well behaved dog. I'd like to get your thoughts, too!

 

[Brieuc]

Hi everyone . I see that dogs are a serious topic. In fact the pbs would be : the dogs are from a bad breeding, my parents are too weak to train the dog,
may i answer to all of you.
The guy is a farmer. Not really a friend but a good collegue. We have bees in common that we breed it's a black special bee, anyway. My mother was in his team idk how to name their group. We saw two of his dogs they are two females that are very obediant. The guy told us that the AS is too popular these days and that there is very bad breeding with them. people can buy for 1000euros a non registered dog. I think that my parents need a friend since they are becoming old. That's life. The main advantage that we have is that i'm with them i work in their farm in summer. So when the dog will arrive in end january i will be there (even if i'm working in a restaurant in winter) . That's why i said that it will be my dog at the end. We will never abandoned the dog if there is pb. The thing can be, the dog does not fit with our lifestyle... as I said. The main advantage is that they are farmer dog and that the puppie will live with the mother and the grand mother for 2 month it can be the best way to train them.

After that we have to think to pay for a special trainer. But it is as hard to find a good breeder.

I'll ask the guy for the genetics test...


Edit : the farm is a vegetable farm.

 

[Bico Doce]

There are mini versions of this breed and other designer versions such as Aussie doodles and such. If your heart is set on an Aussie, maybe consider getting something that will be a better fit for your parents. A smaller lap/toy breed may be more aligned with their wants/needs.

There are breeds that I absolutely love for whatever reason but I know that I would never own them because we would be a bad fit for each other. To be fair I think a lot of dog owners just see a breed that catches their eye and then logic is thrown out the window. The wake up call doesn’t happen until later when they realize they were woefully unprepared to take on the challenge.

I will say that I am not a dog expert or veterinarian. I did in college work at a large dog boarding facility and I saw a lot dogs and their owners

 

[drsmp]

These guys are super smart and definitely trainable. But you can’t change genetics - many have strong drives to herd and they need to work. They have a lot of energy and will need a lot of exercise. I wouldn’t worry about genetic testing and all that. I dont think the breeder is likely to rip you off. They just aren’t many laid back , hang out on the couch with grandma content with a short walk or two herding AS. Training can modify genetic drive and need for exercise but first time dog owners are rarely good trainers - they often are over their heads and get quickly frustrated with herding dogs.

 

[Sdo]

Hi everyone . I see that dogs are a serious topic. In fact the pbs would be : the dogs are from a bad breeding, my parents are too weak to train the dog,
may i answer to all of you.
The guy is a farmer. Not really a friend but a good collegue. We have bees in common that we breed it's a black special bee, anyway. My mother was in his team idk how to name their group. We saw two of his dogs they are two females that are very obediant. The guy told us that the AS is too popular these days and that there is very bad breeding with them. people can buy for 1000euros a non registered dog. I think that my parents need a friend since they are becoming old. That's life. The main advantage that we have is that i'm with them i work in their farm in summer. So when the dog will arrive in end january i will be there (even if i'm working in a restaurant in winter) . That's why i said that it will be my dog at the end. We will never abandoned the dog if there is pb. The thing can be, the dog does not fit with our lifestyle... as I said. The main advantage is that they are farmer dog and that the puppie will live with the mother and the grand mother for 2 month it can be the best way to train them.

After that we have to think to pay for a special trainer. But it is as hard to find a good breeder.

I'll ask the guy for the genetics test...


Edit : the farm is a vegetable farm.

If you are too worried with the "bad" breeding adopt a dog instead of buying. You get it for free.
.

 

[Luftmensch]

A couple of considerations

My parents are lucky they have a farm.

While that is a great advantage for the quality of life of the dog... it is not a substitute for guided exercise and stimulation. As everybody has said, these working dogs are highly intelligent and energetic. If you do not manage their mental and physical energy when they are young, they will likely develop delinquent behaviour. As @LostHighway said; destructive or neurotic behaviors are real risks.

So while the farm is a great 'backyard'... you will still need to enrich the dogs experience by playing/walking with them daily. This gives the dog something meaningful to do and is a part of forming a bond and establishing good behaviour.

Again it is worth emphasising; the reward of bringing an intelligent animal into the family is high - but the amount of attention and effort that requires is higher than other breeds.

I think at the end it will be my dog

The main advantage that we have is that i'm with them i work in their farm in summer. So when the dog will arrive in end january i will be there (even if i'm working in a restaurant in winter) . That's why i said that it will be my dog at the end.

Think carefully about the training dynamic here. You might want to have a family meeting about that. Life will be easier for everybody if you all adopt the same approach to training and socialisation. Ideally you and your parents want be incentivising good behaviour and managing bad behaviour in the same way.

It is also best if you are a regular feature of the dog's life in the beginning. As obedient as these dogs can be, if trained well, that is a function of the relationship they share with their trainer/family. If they are distracted by something interesting, they are not going to listen to a stranger.

They have a cat. A fourteen years old cat

It sounds like the wheels are in motion already. The welfare of the cat is a completely separate issue...

I don't mean to be cruel... but the cat is likely to experience a decline in welfare. Fourteen years old is pretty senior for a cat. For a lone cat that is used to free reign and undivided family attention, unless you have a particularly sassy or chilled out cat, it will likely be miffed by the dog. It is unreasonable to expect a cat to have any interest in getting along with a dog they did not grow up with.

I highly, highly recommend you read tips how to introduce them.

Again, taking your training seriously will help. Similarly, adjusting the family dynamic and territory. Consider how the cat can have a safe space - maybe part of the house that the dog cant access. If the cat is very cuddly, make extra effort to give the cat cuddles - don't let that get distracted by the puppy. If the cat has a routine, try not to break it. Be very strategic and careful about introducing the animals. Manage introductions incrementally. Both in terms of proximity and time spent together. If you are having success, think about ways to make the older cat higher on the pecking order (e.g. feeding first etc...)

If you are lucky the cat and dog will eventually get along. A more likely good outcome will be an uneasy long term truce - the cat may have no interest in interacting with the puppy but be happy in their own safe space.

 

[Delat]

We have a little 25 pound shelter dog (my icon photo) that’s part whippet and therefore pretty high energy. She gets 2-3 outings per day or she’s a PITA. Outing one is me on a bicycle and her setting the pace, which is either a flat out sprint or fast trot for a good 20 minutes after which I’m exhausted and she’s not even panting. Then later my wife takes her for a 45-60 minute walk. Then after that I take her out for a 20 minute jog/walk. Even after all that, around dinner time she frequently gets zoomies and wants to run around more and play for an hour or two. She’s 5 now and thankfully/sadly slowing down just a tad but not a ton.

In summer here in Phoenix she only gets one very early morning outing due to heat, and then she’s whiny and a pest all day. So definitely know what you’re getting into with high energy breeds.

We fostered a Papillon that was super smart and really a total joy to train and play with. But I could see that she would need that type of regular stimulating engagement to be happy. Sounds like with an AS you get both the high energy and intelligence to be aware of.

 

[timebard]

In case you need another point of anecdata about high energy/working breeds--my partner and I adopted a ~1 year old coonhound about a year ago. At this point he's grown into a great dog but the first six months or so were really difficult. Training work was basically an everyday need during those months, not because he's a slow learner but because it took a long time to decide listening to us more than 10% of the time was more fun than doing whatever he wanted.

Similar to herding dogs, he needs a minimum of two walks a day and some play time with us or another dog, or he finds something novel to destroy in the house. He's shredded hiking gear, a $300 down jacket, dress shoes, more socks than I can count, chewed on the corners of our wooden furniture, chewed through his own leashes, the list goes on... If your parents have nice stuff they're protective of, an older dog with lower energy may be a better fit.

Training classes are really useful for a first dog. We probably have spent more on training (including boarding with trainers) than everything else for this dog. Attending them together (and then practicing skills together at home) really helps get all the humans on the same page about how they're communicating with the dog, which makes the dog's job a lot easier.

On the bright side, if your parents are up to the challenge an active dog can be great for their health--it's an automatic incentive to get daily physical activity, an unending project (especially if they get involved with any kind of dog sport like agility or herding), and of course added companionship.

 

[swarfrat]

It really comes down to energy, temperament and trainability.

Are your parents trainable? Are they willing to learn what it takes to care for this kind of dog? Do they have the temperament to put the dog's needs ahead of theirs when it really counts? Do they have the energy to keep it up for the lifetime of the dog?

....So while the farm is a great 'backyard'... you will still need to enrich the dogs experience by playing/walking with them daily. This gives the dog something meaningful to do and is a part of forming a bond and establishing good behaviour.

This, big time. You can't just expect a highly energetic, working, pack animal to be OK with just being in a big space on its own. It needs to be with its pack and it needs to have a purpose or it will make one up.

Have a friend who always has Aussies, but never has the energy to keep up with them. Wonderfully sweet dogs. They destroy every house she's ever had.

I know a family who believed simply having a farm for a dog to run around in was enough. Their sheepdog found its purpose destroying things and killing chickens.

 

[timebard]

It really comes down to energy, temperament and trainability.

Are your parents trainable? Are they willing to learn what it takes to care for this kind of dog? Do they have the temperament to put the dog's needs ahead of theirs when it really counts? Do they have the energy to keep it up for the lifetime of the dog?




This, big time. You can't just expect a highly energetic, working, pack animal to be OK with just being in a big space on its own. It needs to be with its pack and it needs to have a purpose or it will make one up.

Have a friend who always has Aussies, but never has the energy to keep up with them. Wonderfully sweet dogs. They destroy every house she's ever had.

I know a family who believed simply having a farm for a dog to run around in was enough. Their sheepdog found its purpose destroying things and killing chickens.

If your parents farm has chickens or other fowl, definitely consider this. A couple I know raises turkeys on their property and their Aussie and heeler recently killed the majority of their flock (and they do give their dogs plenty of exercise).

 

[Delat]

On the bright side, if your parents are up to the challenge an active dog can be great for their health--it's an automatic incentive to get daily physical activity, an unending project (especially if they get involved with any kind of dog sport like agility or herding), and of course added companionship.

Definitely this. I groan and moan some days but the bike riding and jogging are as much for me as the dog. Sadly while they seem to have her Olympic-fit I still feel like Al Bundy on the couch.

 

[Brieuc]

I think we all agree that having a dog. And a great dog of course. Is a big responsability. Our decision is taken. My parents are maybe not ready but whatever ??? Life is done with complicated decisions. I think everybody will be happy at the end (except the cat :'^(). And if there is a pb i will take the dog and we will chose another one smaller for my parents. I need a pointing dog but i never had a dog. Maybe this new dog will train me or whatever. As someone said upper we will adapt. It's how we are made as influenced by the new than the old. I think i influenced my parents with my taste and sensitivity as much as they influenced me. That's all. So don't worry all.

And for the chicken good chicken is made with high fence we got a lot of fox in french brittany so it won't change anything.

 

[lane]

Sounds like you may have already gotten the dog. I own three Aussies at the moment and have owned Aussies for thirty years. There's a lot of missed information and a lot of inaccurate lore about Aussies on the internet. Here are a few points I'd suggest you consider:

1. Yes, very active. They really need walks, play, active engagement. It's more mental than physical, for the most part. Set up a small agility course (you can easily make the jumps, ramps, and stuff yourself) and without having to walk miles yourself, you can get your Aussie worn out. Even nose-work (scents in little bandaid boxes or the like) teach them to follow instructions (and thus learn obedience) and also demand a lot of emotional attention which will tire them out and also keep them sharp and alert.

2. I would recommend going to an AKC breeder. First, I'd go to any AKC show (listed at infodog.com/show and follow people backstage from the ring to wherever they are grooming and keeping their dogs. Find the Aussies (they'll typically be clustered together) and ask for some recommendations. If you get three or four people suggesting the same breeder, you should be talking to a good one. Now AKC Aussie breeders are very diligent about protecting their breed so you don't have the same kind of problems you have in other breeds with inbreeding. These dogs are basically ranch yard mutts to begin with and have very diverse genetics that breeders actually try to preserve. All pedigrees are on the internet and Aussie breeders are careful not to perpetuate any of the issues that do come up in all dogs from time to time and that Aussies can be subject to: epilepsy, blindness, and deafness for the most part. There's one significant genetic issue to check in Aussies called MDR-1, a failure in the molecular barrier to the brain that allows toxic compounds to build up in the brain. The genetics are well known and you can get an $85 test from Washington State University's vet school to test your own dog (and you should do it). It means you have to protect your dog from ivermectin, most chemotherapeutic cancer drugs, Imodium, and the like. It's a pretty big list of drugs and they are deadly or can cause irreversible brain damage. MDR-1 comes basically from crossing a merle to a merle. The puppies usually show an inordinate amount of white but that's not always the case, so be sure you know the pedigree (always want a tri crossed with tri or a tri crossed with a merle). And get the genetic test. lf you have a MDR-1 negative puppy, you have nothing to worry about. If you have a heterozygous MDR-1 (one normal and one defective gene) you can pass it on to offspring and the dog is at least partially susceptible to all these drugs. You can google "MDR-1" and get the test and a lot of information on it at the WSU web site.

3. Aussies do sometimes get hemangiosarcoma, a very fast-growing and uncontrollable cancer of the lining of blood vessels. Aussies are generally quite healthy with limited cancers and other illnesses, but google hemangiosarcoma and learn about it. If your adult dog ever seems weak, immediately check its gums -- if they are pale and not rich pink, the dog is bleeding inside. The dogs recover within an hour or so, so you have to watch out for it. But if it happens, be prepared to act fast and get your dog to a vet.

4. People who say they are not AKC and breeding at home are often how puppy mills now sell dogs. The mills have families raise and sell the dogs without saying where they're from. Puppy mill dogs and dogs from uninformed breeders very often have MDR-1 (around half of all Aussies have at least one copy of the gene, if not two). So be careful of this.

5. Aussie puppies tend to slow down after about three years of age. Until then they can be pretty crazy and occasionally destructive. All these problems typically go away if you give them enough of a workout, whether mental or physical. And they are amazing and wonderfully intelligent dogs to have -- mine understand hundreds of words of human vocabulary, can figure out all kinds of things, and are the most loving dogs I've ever known.

 

[NotAddictedYet]

I would recommend going to an AKC breeder.

Think OP is in France, but the point about finding sanctioned dog shows and find reputable breeder there stands.