New Knife Questionnaire (Nakiri)

[HomeChef16]

LOCATION
What country are you in?
USA

KNIFE TYPE
What type of knife are you interested in?
Nakiri

Are you right or left handed?
Right

Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle?
Japanese


What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)?
165-180

Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no) I would prefer it but its not critical.


What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife?
$400


KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment?
Home.

What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.)

Chopping, slicing, dicing and mincing Vegetables.


What knife, if any, are you replacing?
First Nakiri so not replacing anything just adding to a few Zwilling Kramers.

Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for the common types of grips.)
Pinch

What cutting motions do you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for types of cutting motions and identify the two or three most common cutting motions, in order of most used to least used.)
Push-cut, rocking and draw...just depends what I am cutting.

And also just chop using the cupped hand and bend over finger tips resting the knife on my knuckles as a guide to chop consistant increments.


What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.)

Cleaner performance in terms of cleanly moving through veg. A real laser.

Also something that will release the veg from the knifes face.

Esthetics, it has to look cool

A real buy once cry once, work horse.

Ease of Use and Care

Edge Retention


KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board?

Wood

Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.)
YES

If not, are you interested in learning how to sharpen your knives?

Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? (Yes or no.)

Possibly, I have a KME I am pretty happy with.


SPECIAL REQUESTS/COMMENTS

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

So we need to unpack a couple things first...

Laser and food release typically are at odds. Good food release is generally a product of geometry and it takes some width to make that happen. Lasers in this community will be thought of as thin knives and in general will suffer some stiction to get that crazy good slicing performance.

Then there's a lot in between. You'll find Sanjo-based makers and those doing similar styles kind of hit a middle balance between the various styles. They will be thicker spined but taper down to a very keen edge. This provides some heft to help cutting and the taper provides some food release while providing a very slicey edge.

I think I read where you've already discovered the Watanabe Pro being very popular. For what you're describing, a Wat Pro 180 is likely to make you very happy. It is very slicey and has pretty good food release. They really are hard to beat as a high performing, good grind, versatile profile, nice steel nakiri. Cutting with a Wat Pro 180 is real joy.

That said, mine tends to hang out on the rack now that I have other options. Not in any way a slight on the Wat Pro, just that I tend to like lighter and more lasery knives. All about personal preference. And that's the part that you have to experiment with to learn.

We can recommend you a variety of knives and we can think they are the best, but you may not like some aspect of them as much. Maybe it's too curved or too flat or a bit too heavy or too whispy or whatever. Those are you own preferences and are quite valid.

I mention that just to help temper some of your expectations. Spending up to $400 may not be the best option when just starting out. It may be the exact right option but it's just important to understand all the inputs.

Also, a lot of us believe that Toyama is the true maker behind the Wat Pro so check those out too. They also have a loyal following.

I had a KME for many years. Really nice set up. Wrong tool for this job though.

The throw is too restrictive on blade height and guided systems do not allow for blade curvature. They work fine on smaller knives but over time they will begin to straighten out the edge of longer knives. They have other drawbacks as well but those are the most relevant here.

I know you weren't expecting this but I'd HIGHLY encourage you to scale back on your knife budget and take the step into freehand sharpening. Barring some physical challenges you may have, you CAN do it. It is not voodoo and it does not take decades to become proficient. It takes a lifetime to master but it can take as little as a few tries to start getting the hang of it.

There is a ton of information here on the forum for new sharpeners and the people here are highly knowledgeable and generous.

We could recommend you a sharpening setup at around $200-250 that would get you setup quite well to start out. Even less if we had to push it.

One thing with the Wat Pro is most of us find it needs a sharpening almost right away. The edge as it comes tends to be quite brittle and that steel needs to be cut back a touch. This is true of a lot of knives.

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

Also, I say don't fear iron cladding. Some are more reactive than others but by and large they are not a big deal. The fear factor is vastly over dramatized. I started out not wanting even a carbon edge and now my rack is full of all carbon knives. A quick rinse after acidic stuff and a wipe down before leaving them and they do just fine.

Kyhohei Shindo will make a very nice substitute for a Wat Pro. Similar approach and great cutting performance. Looks like they are sold out at some places but they typically come back in stock before too long.

Another one I really like is my Moritaka. A little lighter than the Wat Pro.

If you look at @TokushuKnife, they carry both. You can use code KKF15 to get a 15% discount.

https://tokushuknife.com/

Just some more food for thought is all. The only all stainless nakiri I have is a Tsunehisa and it is a fine knife but it isn't stellar and not what you're describing.

 

[Yoshi]

I own both the way pro 180 and the Shindo 170, they are very different knives to me.

The wat pro weights much more, so whilst the food release is better, the good separation is worse than Shindo. I went touch butternut squash with my wat.

 

[daveb]

HC, Pls read the "Pls Read" thread under new members.

 

[HomeChef16]

HC, Pls read the "Pls Read" thread under new members.

Hi Dave, I just read the "pls read". Did I miss step somewhere? Looks like I have followed all the rules to avoid things that will trigger the spam filter.

Also looks like my comment above has been deleted. Did break a rule or something?

 

[daveb]

No links - in your post or in quoted posts - the spam software goes nuts..

 

[HomeChef16]

No links - in your post or in quoted posts - the spam software goes nuts..

Noted. I dont recall having any links in my post. I was just thanking HumbleHomeCook for his response.

I will certainly avoid posting any links from here on out.

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

Noted. I dont recall having any links in my post. I was just thanking HumbleHomeCook for his response.

I will certainly avoid posting any links from here on out.

I had some links in my post so when you quoted it, that probably triggered the spam filter. It's only a thing when you're new.

 

[HomeChef16]

I had some links in my post so when you quoted it, that probably triggered the spam filter. It's only a thing when you're new.

Oh, gotcha. Now that makes sense. Thanks for the clarification. I was a bit confused, and couldnt understand why I have seen so many links throguhout different posts. Its the new accounts they are weary of.

Thanks yet again!

 

[SwampDonkey]

Well do either of these look enticing to you?

First knife is Okubo 180x63 mm, 234 g. Ironclad, aogami #2 core

Second knife is the Watanabe Pro "180" measuring in at 176x60 mm, 200 g, stainless clad aogami #2 core

@HumbleHomeCook is spot on with all his points though. Guided sharpening systems have their place bit on something as tall as a nakiri you really see the problems with them start to come out. More useful on smaller pocket knives or paring knives.

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

Also, in general, simple carbon steels like shirogami and aogami are easier to sharpen than many stainless steels. Ginsan is a stainless that sharpens pretty nicely.

 

[HomeChef16]

Well do either of these look enticing to you?

First knife is Okubo 180x63 mm, 234 g. Ironclad, aogami #2 core

Second knife is the Watanabe Pro "180" measuring in at 176x60 mm, 200 g, stainless clad aogami #2 core

@HumbleHomeCook is spot on with all his points though. Guided sharpening systems have their place bit on something as tall as a nakiri you really see the problems with them start to come out. More useful on smaller pocket knives or paring knives.

They both appear to perform exceptionally well. And its hard to grasp the nuances and "feel" of each but the black handled Wat, seemed to be slighlty more lasery. There was a moment where you just about took your hand off the onion and it dosnt move through the entire slice...pretty impressive.

And as a less important but personal preference, I dig the dark handle.

Both beautiful knifes though.

That Wat isnt for sale, is it?