new stone, Norton Ascent

[stringer]

Sounds like I need to make a visit to Indiana... Recommend any particular cities?

Went on a deep dive while I'm waiting on my partner at the doctor.

Looks like French Lick, Orangeville, and Hindostan Falls would be good places to look. Found a great article. The Hindostan stone company existed until 1989. They made all kinds of crap out of them.

https://storymaps.arcgis.com/stories/06ecfb11865b413798539083a0c53721
Makes me want to buy some Hindostan stone coasters.

Here are some with kittens. I mean come on.

And they have a cork backing to prevent damage to your furniture (or prevent the thing from sliding around when used as a whetstone).

I can see the conversation now.

Someone else: "This knife is dull."

Me: "Hold my beer and I'll use my coasterstone to fix that right up for you."

I think I might buy them for all my friends and relatives. They can use them as coasters and then when I visit I'll use them to touch up their knives.

 

[KingShapton]

I finally found Smith's little stone after all...

And I've been playing with the stone and a few pocket knives... and I'm surprisingly impressed. I used the stone exclusively for final apexing and - wow! The results are damn good, scary good!

To be honest, so good that, contrary to my earlier words, I would really be interested in trying out the Norton Ascent fine. These ceramic stones have their limitations, but if you are aware of them, surprisingly good results can be achieved.

However, it seems to be manufacturer dependent, I didn't like my Spyderco stones and ended up selling them. It would be interesting to see if the Norton Ascent is more in the little Smith's league...

 

[The_Real_Self]

I'm going to buy at least one of these, not sure whether to go Fine or Ultra Fine. It would be nice if they gave a grit rating but does anybody here know an approximate range for these?

 

[cotedupy]

I'm going to buy at least one of these, not sure whether to go Fine or Ultra Fine. It would be nice if they gave a grit rating but does anybody here know an approximate range for these?

North of 10k.

I don't know if they are for sure, but if they're like the Spyderco versions then (as mentioned above) - the stones are the same but with different surface finishes. So may not really matter which to go for...

 

[The_Real_Self]

North of 10k.

I don't know if they are for sure, but if they're like the Spyderco versions then (as mentioned above) - the stones are the same but with different surface finishes. So may not really matter which to go for...

That seems like that's way too high really, I saw at Sharpening Supplies.com they rather the Fine at around 4000 and the Ultra Fine at 8000. I can't find anything from the Norton literature that gives a grit so I'm not sure if I can trust this claim as it may just be what they 'feel' is about the range.

I did have a sneaking suspicion it was the same story as the Spyderco's where they are just lapped to 'higher grit' which is of course to me, nonsensical. It doesn't make it a higher grit but what it does do is cause more burnishing of the edge rather than cutting.

I'll probably go with the Fine just to be sure. Not sure I need something 8-10K really.

 

[cotedupy]

I saw at Sharpening Supplies.com they rather the Fine at around 4000 and the Ultra Fine at 8000.

Ah, interesting. I haven't actually used these stones btw. After seeing the OP here a while back I asked about them on a razor forum, so what I said above was just based on people's impressions there.

Something to note though... when looking at American stones, particularly Norton; you're likely to get people quoting ANSI/CAMI 'grit' ratings, the equivalent JIS rating (which is what most of us here would be used to) is a lot higher.

 

[The_Real_Self]

Ah, interesting. I haven't actually used these stones btw. After seeing the OP here a while back I asked about them on a razor forum, so what I said above was just based on people's impressions there.

Something to note though... when looking at American stones, particularly Norton; you're likely to get people quoting ANSI/CAMI 'grit' ratings, the equivalent JIS rating (which is what most of us here would be used to) is a lot higher.

Thank you for mentioning this, I just learned this recently and already lost sight of this fact. That 4000/8000 figure was said to be based on the Norton waterstones so maybe something like 6000 & 12000 is more like the JIS rating?

 

[Naftoor]

Until this thread I had no idea “hindostan” was derived from hindostone. I figured the razor people were just gushing over some stone from the vaunted orient all this time

 

[inferno]

the spydercos dont have any grit rating either. but the UF when lapped with another white spyderco stone is comparable to about 15k or so. unlapped its about 3-4k. since it has a lot of fuzed particles sticking up from the really fine surface. these stones are compacted. probably prefired. milled/ground, and then final fired. if they were finished after firing they would be about 10-100x more expensive i guess.

a 20k gok is better. its finer and a lot faster.

 

[cotedupy]

Thank you for mentioning this, I just learned this recently and already lost sight of this fact. That 4000/8000 figure was said to be based on the Norton waterstones so maybe something like 6000 & 12000 is more like the JIS rating?

Yeah something like, or perhaps even a bit higher - maybe 8k & 16k. Conversions get a bit tricky at very high grit levels I think.

My impression would be that they're going to be a bit hard and fine for kitchen knife edges. Though it would be very interesting to hear your thoughts if you do get one.

Something that is great for knife edges, is cheap, easily available in the US, and wildly underrated are: Soft Arks (if you don't have already).

 

[cotedupy]

Until this thread I had no idea “hindostan” was derived from hindostone. I figured the razor people were just gushing over some stone from the vaunted orient all this time

Don't worry! You're not the first person to have been confused by that...

 

[The_Real_Self]

Yeah something like, or perhaps even a bit higher - maybe 8k & 16k. Conversions get a bit tricky at very high grit levels I think.

My impression would be that they're not going to be a bit hard and fine for kitchen knife edges. Though it would be very interesting to hear your thoughts if you do get one.

Something that is great for knife edges, is cheap, easily available in the US, and wildly underrated are: Soft Arks (if you don't have already).

I know this would not be many peoples choice for kitchen work. I have Nano Hone NL-10 lapping plate which was designed for sintered ceramics so I can easily condition this stone. I'd mainly be using it for professional sharpening work where people want a very high grit finish at the apex. It would be used purely for microbevels to set the apex after establishing the correct geometry and thinness at the apex to begin with. Spend maybe a minute or two on this stone sort of deal. If it works well enough to use in the kitchen it would just be a bonus.

I need to get some Arkansas stones also, who makes the best retailer to pick up one from?

 

[SolidSnake03]

I know this would not be many peoples choice for kitchen work. I have Nano Hone NL-10 lapping plate which was designed for sintered ceramics so I can easily condition this stone. I'd mainly be using it for professional sharpening work where people want a very high grit finish at the apex. It would be used purely for microbevels to set the apex after establishing the correct geometry and thinness at the apex to begin with. Spend maybe a minute or two on this stone sort of deal. If it works well enough to use in the kitchen it would just be a bonus.

I need to get some Arkansas stones also, who makes the best retailer to pick up one from?

Dan's Whetstones is probably the best place around for Arkansas stones. I've bought a few from him and they have all been excellent. He's a little more expensive but for Arkansas stones that's really not that big a deal since the cost is fairly low overall for those anyhow.

As Cotedupy said, soft arks make a really good finishers for every day kitchen use, you'll always have enough bite and it's a great stopping point for soft stainless/non-high end stainless (stuff that isn't AEB-L or PM Steels). I like to take my carbon knives higher but actually a surgical black or translucent ark is a really nice stopping point for carbon as well for a durable and bitey working edge. Also quick tip, if you have a worn down Atoma, use it to scrub the surface of your Ark's before using to make a little slurry and you will drastically speed up the sharpening speed and better feeling. Also I find you get less impacted metal that way too. Don't use a new Atoma though....because you'll wreck that Atoma...

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

Just know if buying from Dan's, sometimes it can take a little while as sometimes they won't have the item on the shelf and someone has to drive out, knock off a hunk, bring it back and cut it up. But yes, great stones.

I used to buy from Hall's as well but they sold and are now RHPreyda. I haven't bought from the new owners but have heard good things. Again, no first hand experience.

 

[SolidSnake03]

Just know if buying from Dan's, sometimes it can take a little while as sometimes they won't have the item on the shelf and someone has to drive out, knock off a hunk, bring it back and cut it up. But yes, great stones.

I used to buy from Hall's as well but they sold and are now RHPreyda. I haven't bought from the new owners but have heard good things. Again, no first hand experience.

I'm reaching out to RHPreyda now to see about some of there stones. Happy to report back on it if I end up getting any. They have a wide range of sizing which I like and have some quiet nice looking Soft Arks.....maybe have to check out a few stones from them pending their response. Anyone have any experience with their whetstones? I'm trying to figure out exactly what they are and if they are a sintestered style like the Spyderco's?

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

I'm reaching out to RHPreyda now to see about some of there stones. Happy to report back on it if I end up getting any. They have a wide range of sizing which I like and have some quiet nice looking Soft Arks.....maybe have to check out a few stones from them pending their response. Anyone have any experience with their whetstones? I'm trying to figure out exactly what they are and if they are a sintestered style like the Spyderco's?

theedgeprofessional on IG works for them I believe. Just thought it might be of interest.

 

[cotedupy]

I'd mainly be using it for professional sharpening work where people want a very high grit finish at the apex. It would be used purely for microbevels to set the apex after establishing the correct geometry and thinness at the apex to begin with. Spend maybe a minute or two on this stone sort of deal.

Ah gotcha! In which case yeah, I imagine the Ascent would absolutely come into its own in that kind of situation.

And as I say - it'd be very interesting to hear your thoughts if you do get one, both in regards to that kind of thing, but also kitchen knife edges. TBH Norton have never really put out a bad stone, I imagine these are actually going to be quite fast considering how fine they are. In which case they might make for very good, high-level kitchen knife edges.

I need to get some Arkansas stones also, who makes the best retailer to pick up one from?

As SS and HHC said - RH Preyda, and particularly Dan's, are regarded as a couple of the best producers of high quality arks nowadays.

Though in regards to Soft Arks in particular; imo you might find that some of the very cheap, quite soft, often colourful or patterned, versions are the best. And you should be able to find old stones from Smith's or Cabela or others quite easily on ebay (sometimes sold as 'Washitas' rather than Soft Arkansas). For instance both the calico 'Washitas' that @captaincaed was giving away recently looked like absolute gems to my eye, stones that look like those are a very good bet ime:

https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/captain-cleans-the-closet-whack-a-stone.62808/

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

Ah gotcha! In which case yeah, I imagine the Ascent would absolutely come into its own in that kind of situation.

And as I say - it'd be very interesting to hear your thoughts if you do get one, both in regards to that kind of thing, but also kitchen knife edges. TBH Norton have never really put out a bad stone, I imagine these are actually going to be quite fast considering how fine they are. In which case they might make for very good, high-level kitchen knife edges.




As SS and HHC said - RH Preyda, and particularly Dan's, are regarded as a couple of the best producers of high quality arks nowadays.

Though in regards to Soft Arks in particular; imo you might find that some of the very cheap, quite soft, often colourful or patterned, versions are the best. And you should be able to find old stones from Smith's or Cabela or others quite easily on ebay (sometimes sold as 'Washitas' rather than Soft Arkansas). For instance both the calico 'Washitas' that @captaincaed was giving away recently looked like absolute gems to my eye, stones that look like those are a very good bet ime:

https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/captain-cleans-the-closet-whack-a-stone.62808/

Agreed on the Washita vs. Soft Ark. I bought one of the two but did so knowing that despite the label, it was most likely what I consider a soft. I have another from a different company that looks about the same and it was sold as a soft. Still couldn't resist though.

The only caution I'd offer on cheaper, modern stones isn't the stone quality but the finish quality. I've had two that had tiny little proud grains. You couldn't see or feel them with your hand but the knife sure could feel them when you hit them. Not terrible to rectify but worth considering.

 

[Mr.Wizard]

Is anyone able to directly compare the factory finished performance of the Norton Ascent stone(s) to the Spyderco Fine and/or Ultra Fine ceramics?