Possibly end of an era..... Kiyoshi Kato Retired

[Corradobrit1]

In Maksims Newsletter there is an announcement that Kato has retired. Hardly surprising news given he's in his late 70's and there have been rumours for quite some time. His rate of production has increased from what I can see over the last couple of years, probably to clear old orders. And quite a swan song it was too.
Inventory will slowly dry up and it will be interesting to see how this affects the secondary market given his popularity.

 

[DitmasPork]

Yeah, saw the newsletter. Sad to hear, but inevitable, just a part of life—an awesome maker. Kato's knife prices will spike for sure—as they should. $2.5–3k for a Kato 240 gyuto, not far away, and well deserved—hope they soar. Glad he'll be getting a rest and free time.

 

[Wdestate]

2.5k-3k well deserved. Woooof lol

 

[Corradobrit1]

Glad I got mine when I had the opportunity. @Markcg is officially sitting on a gold mine.

 

[esoo]

Yeah, saw the newsletter. Sad to hear, but inevitable, just a part of life—an awesome maker. Kato's knife prices will spike for sure—as they should. $2.5–3k for a Kato 240 gyuto, not far away, and well deserved—hope they soar. Glad he'll be getting a rest and free time.

Why is it well deserved? Kato will get none of that money - it will all be in the secondary market.

 

[DitmasPork]

Why is it well deserved? Kato will get none of that money - it will all be in the secondary market.

A knife of that exceptional quality, by a revered maker that’s all but ceasing production; well made; effective crowdsourced branding; coveted by chefs and collectors—is well deserving of a very high valuation. Artists/artisans, don’t benefit directly from secondary market sales, nor should they. Indirectly, a knife maker can and should charge more if the valuation goes up. Kato’s personal/business finances aren’t my concern. My interest are in his knives, how they perform, what they’re worth.

 

[Corradobrit1]

A knife of that exceptional quality, by a revered maker that’s all but ceasing production; well made; effective crowdsourced branding; coveted by chefs and collectors—is well deserving of a very high valuation. Artists/artisans, don’t benefit directly from secondary market sales, nor should they. Indirectly, a knife maker can and should charge more if the valuation goes up. Kato’s personal/business finances aren’t my concern. My interest are in his knives, how they perform, what they’re worth.

Well said. The artist rarely sees the financial rewards eg van Gogh, Basquet. The only ones really minting it while still alive include Koons, Hirst.. .........and Kramer

 

[labor of love]

Pretty sure Kato didn’t get played like a fiddle his whole career lmao. Glad he was able to retire with a nice bag. Probably should’ve started jacking those price up a lot sooner IMO

 

[Corradobrit1]

Pretty sure Kato didn’t get played like a fiddle his whole career lmao. Glad he was able to retire with a nice bag. Probably should’ve started jacking those price up a lot sooner IMO

Depends how his contracts were written. In my estimation he was just fulfilling orders from 5+ years ago before the craziness really started. Kato may not have been in a position to renegotiate.

 

[esoo]

A knife of that exceptional quality, by a revered maker that’s all but ceasing production; well made; effective crowdsourced branding; coveted by chefs and collectors—is well deserving of a very high valuation. Artists/artisans, don’t benefit directly from secondary market sales, nor should they. Indirectly, a knife maker can and should charge more if the valuation goes up. Kato’s personal/business finances aren’t my concern. My interest are in his knives, how they perform, what they’re worth.

So the well deserved is to the chef or collector that actually got a knife and created the market demand to drive the value of their collection up. Got it.

 

[labor of love]

Depends how his contracts were written. In my estimation he was just fulfilling orders from 5+ years ago before the craziness really started. Kato may not have been in a position to renegotiate.

Probably not

 

[DitmasPork]

Depends how his contracts were written. In my estimation he was just fulfilling orders from 5+ years ago before the craziness really started. Kato may not have been in a position to renegotiate.

Got me thinking about the contract the Kingsmen signed when they did ‘Louie Louie’—took them decades of court battles fighting for royalties. IMHO, the lofty secondary market prices for knives by Kato, Shig, et al have benefited the newer generation of makers, vendors, ‘flippers’—those pricey knives raised the ceiling of knife prices; helped normalized paying top dollar for handmade knives. These days, a 1k gyuto doesn’t raise many eyebrows. The top-end is expanding—I.e., Eating Tools; a good % of custom jobs. My first custom was $400, I’d have to pay considerably more from the same maker today for the same knife.
More on topic—Kato’s steel is special; the grind distinctive. TBH, I’ve also got caught into the romance of the maker as a person and his process.

 

[ethompson]

Personally I found Kato steel very meh (I think my 52100 Z-Kramer is better and it’s not even in the same league as something like Birgersson), grind is well thought out and consistent which is the most important thing. Overall cool knives, good personality, but at $2k?

I’m sure there are a fair few collectors who’ve been waiting for this day and will cash out parts of their collection handsomely, and good for them. But as a tool or something I want - one less person for you crazies to compete with I guess.

 

[Corradobrit1]

TBH, I’ve also got caught into the romance of the maker as a person and his process.

For sure. How many knife makers are doing everything in-house AND are certified sword makers with a family heritage going back generations. Truly an end of an era. Not even TF's family sword making credentials hold up to the same scrutiny.

 

[spaceconvoy]

Well said. The artist rarely sees the financial rewards eg van Gogh, Basquet. The only ones really minting it while still alive include Koons, Hirst.. .........and Kramer

Two artists who are near-universally seen as a joke in the art world...

 

[Corradobrit1]

Personally I found Kato steel very meh (I think my 52100 Z-Kramer is better and it’s not even in the same league as something like Birgersson), grind is well thought out and consistent which is the most important thing. Overall cool knives, good personality, but at $2k?

I’m sure there are a fair few collectors who’ve been waiting for this day and will cash out parts of their collection handsomely, and good for them. But as a tool or something I want - one less person for you crazies to compete with I guess.

Bigger question for me is if Mazaki's stock goes up as the remaining direct connection to the man himself.

 

[Corradobrit1]

Two artists who are near-universally seen as a joke in the art world...

I don't think they care much tbh. There are enough rich mugs out there to pay for a name.

 

[maxim]

Kato did not get played for sure, When I started cary Kato knives I was the first outside Japan, Even in Japan he was not popular for his knives, mostly swords huntings and Kiridashi, Then we together with Kato twitched his knives made them thinner, more hight, better grind, for single bevels he went over Shigefusa to learn making Ura that we arranged.
Then I went over there and we made video that have almost 1mil Views now
First after that when he got Popular other vendors start carry him including those in Japan.
I have always said that I will rather pay more for him to make what he likes and best quality
So there have been super cool to work with him, Amazing experience and many people here on forum and others that got to enjoy his knives from they was only 200 USD to now
Price have to ofc fallow the demand and rarety before I got Kato knives every month and he could make good batch
Now we are down to 4 a 3 month and will be even rare now ! He will maybe make some knives maybe not
So ofc price Have to fallow that

 

[spaceconvoy]

I don't think they care much tbh. There are enough rich mugs out there to pay for a name.

Oh for sure. I was just wondering if that says anything about Kramer. Though it seems people really do love his knives. The $25k weirdo damascus is a bit much though

 

[DitmasPork]

Two artists who are near-universally seen as a joke in the art world...

Do you buy art? Honest question.
FWIW, knives a fun, relatively inexpensive side hobby for me—I’ve bought considerably more art than knives.
Interestingly, a friend of mine collects guns—I told told him he’s a lunatic for it, he thinks I’m bonkers paying decent money for a utilitarian, kitchen knife, made by a craftsman, like Kato, etc.
Both Koons and Hirst have their lovers and haters, as well as moments of brilliance—both have their importance within art history, contemporary culture. That said, it can be thrilling sitting through an auction when one of their pieces comes up.

 

[enrico]

Kind of bummed about that news. Was having fun beating up my new WH. Now I feel slightly different about it. Just a mental thing of course as I couldn’t care less about “collecting”.

Guess I’ll just have to chip it to hurdle the mental block

 

[Corradobrit1]

Kind of bummed about that news. Was having fun beating up my new WH. Now I feel slightly different about it. Just a mental thing of course as I couldn’t care less about “collecting”.

Guess I’ll just have to chip it to hurdle the mental block

I prepped dinner this evening with my 210 WH as a nod to the Master,,,, and loved every minute of it.

 

[DitmasPork]

Love my Kato—the bee’s knees and dog’s bollocks IMHO.
Glad he’s in my collection.
[Note: a ‘ kitchen knife collector’ is anyone who owns more than a handful of chef’s knives; or buys knives beyond kitchen requirements; etc. Most on kkf are collectors IMO.]

 

[Southpaw]

Glad I have one. His imminent retirement made me get one and I’m glad I did

 

[Corradobrit1]

I feel blessed. Collector AND user.

 

[Dhoff]

Love my Kato—the bee’s knees and dog’s bollocks IMHO.
Glad he’s in my collection.
[Note: a ‘ kitchen knife collector’ is anyone who owns more than a handful of chef’s knives; or buys knives beyond kitchen requirements; etc. Most on kkf are collectors IMO.]
View attachment 235285

umh that meat looks bloody good

 

[Olsen]

I am very happy with Kato knifes I obtained many years ago (2013/2014). My 240 yanagi, 210/240 gyutos (all from Maksim) are sweet. I wonder who purchased the 240 takobiki equivalent shortly after I bought the yanagi? I have also given thoughts to the 210 deba around the same time (around 800 $!).... the prices back then where just ridiciously low!

 

[DanielC]

Kato did not get played for sure, When I started cary Kato knives I was the first outside Japan, Even in Japan he was not popular for his knives, mostly swords huntings and Kiridashi, Then we together with Kato twitched his knives made them thinner, more hight, better grind, for single bevels he went over Shigefusa to learn making Ura that we arranged.
Then I went over there and we made video that have almost 1mil Views now
First after that when he got Popular other vendors start carry him including those in Japan.
I have always said that I will rather pay more for him to make what he likes and best quality
So there have been super cool to work with him, Amazing experience and many people here on forum and others that got to enjoy his knives from they was only 200 USD to now
Price have to ofc fallow the demand and rarety before I got Kato knives every month and he could make good batch
Now we are down to 4 a 3 month and will be even rare now ! He will maybe make some knives maybe not
So ofc price Have to fallow that

It was that video that made me pursue and learn how to produce and polish sanmai. All the way back in 2013ish? I forced my wife to watch it on our TV and told her I wanted to do THAT.

 

[DitmasPork]

I feel blessed. Collector AND user.

View attachment 235288

I’ve Kato envy of your stash.

 

[Matus]

I used to have a Kato 240 WH that I got second hand here on the forum. Sold it when we bought a house (and I realized that I have way overspent on my hobbies and needed to reconsider my priorities). I do wish I have kept it. It simply felt different to other knives I had a chance to try. It never was about being 'the best' (in whatever metric one may come up with), but definitely unique and hand made all the way through and as such a piece of that "old world" that is coming to an end.